Ukraine plans to impose a tax on the operations with cryptocurrency - page 3.

Kevin77

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Quote from: South Park on October 05, 2018, 05:32:49 PM

Quote from: NotoriousHodler on October 04, 2018, 02:48:05 PM

How do they do that though? If all operations are encrypted, how would they know how much BTC, ETH or whatever was transferred. And how would such tax count: at the time of transaction, or at the time of paying the tax? Because we all know how volatile crypto is, someday you'll sell BTC, for example, for 7k$, then, at the end of fiscal year it will cost 10k$. Whats then?

Just creating the laws to try to regulate something like bitcoin is proving to be an incredible complex problem, so the implementation of those laws is going to be even more difficult, the truth is that as far as we know governments have no way to link every single transaction and address with a name and if they cannot do that then their capabilities for taxing bitcoin users are going to be very limited.

Well, but at least, they are making some attempt to see how they can simply just keep going about the regulation than keeping quiet about it. Yes, this is certain we will get to see more of news like this in coming years and it won't be that easy to implement most of the time unless you have to convert to fiat which most of the regulations would have to be done on the local exchanges of each country and this is where you really do not want to get on the nerves of the government thinking you can evade and get away with it.

Obviously, P2P transactions cannot be easily taxed as it cannot even be traced to a particular person, but however it is, I believe the whole taxation thing is going to work for a system with a good framework and it is a lot better than fighting it anyway.

primer61

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Taxation is certainly better than banning Crypto in view of increasing adoption, but...
Is this the first case of Cryptocurrency taxation? I wonder how they`ll realize it in the decentralized anonymous transaction emvironment.
Seems like at the very least they should get rid of the second aspect, anonymity, and link each wallet to a real person - but how exactly they`ll do it?
Definitely I`d be on the lookout for this instance, very intrigued by this decision.

South Park

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Quote from: NotoriousHodler on October 04, 2018, 02:48:05 PM

How do they do that though? If all operations are encrypted, how would they know how much BTC, ETH or whatever was transferred. And how would such tax count: at the time of transaction, or at the time of paying the tax? Because we all know how volatile crypto is, someday you'll sell BTC, for example, for 7k$, then, at the end of fiscal year it will cost 10k$. Whats then?

Just creating the laws to try to regulate something like bitcoin is proving to be an incredible complex problem, so the implementation of those laws is going to be even more difficult, the truth is that as far as we know governments have no way to link every single transaction and address with a name and if they cannot do that then their capabilities for taxing bitcoin users are going to be very limited.

Lorna111

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Quote from: Delvi on September 30, 2018, 01:04:30 PM

Quote from: South Park on September 30, 2018, 12:43:19 PM

Quote from: XMLGold.eu on September 28, 2018, 08:02:22 AM

Ukraine plans to impose a tax on the operations with cryptocurrencies
See more: https://www.xmlgold.eu/en/news/article/747/ukraine-plans-to-impose-tax-on-operations-with-cryptocurrencies/

They can pass whatever laws that they want the problem for them is how are they going to identify the people that are using cryptocurrencies and how are they going to force them to pay? That is the question that no one wants to ask because they know they have no answer, so let them have their day and pass whatever laws they want, it makes no difference.

The law is designed for gullible citizens. The main thing is to sow fear, and to prescribe responsibility for violation of the law. The owner of the magazine Forklog, checked the security service of Ukraine. Computers with bitcoins were seized from him. Therefore, after the round-up it will be possible to accuse the citizens of Ukraine of tax evasion. But this method of lawlessness.

This is either a good news or a bad news dependent on how the Bitcoin Holder would take the issue on taxes? If we follow the government financial institution basically these is the issue on Regulation which has been on the news for quite a while, if the regulation would concentrate on the issue of taxes by the government, it don't see that we can do about it.

tweetbit

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Quote from: gambitcoin53 on October 04, 2018, 09:52:45 PM

this is not good for the bitcoin community, imagine how much tax would slice up in our wallets, how would they tax anonymous users, who would they taxed?

I don’t agree that isn’t good for bitcoin users in general. Paying tax is our obligation as a citizen of our country and doing so even we are in the virtual world we still use the facilities or medium of our society. So we have to follow when taxation is implemented.

They can collect tax without our identity or privacy compromise by just taking it on wallets or for every transaction like value added tax.

gambitcoin53

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this is not good for the bitcoin community, imagine how much tax would slice up in our wallets, how would they tax anonymous users, who would they taxed? having an atm for bitcoin simply destroys the anonymity of users, in fact, who would want to have an atm knowing their identity would be compromised. i think this step of ukraine is bad for the crypto community as a whole.

andika2018

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I think not only ukraine. Most country in the world want to take benefits from cryptocurrency market. Crypto market growing bigger and money circulation growing, government sees this as an opportunity. But Government should be regulate cryptocurrency if they want impose taxes

NotoriousHodler

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How do they do that though? If all operations are encrypted, how would they know how much BTC, ETH or whatever was transferred. And how would such tax count: at the time of transaction, or at the time of paying the tax? Because we all know how volatile crypto is, someday you'll sell BTC, for example, for 7k$, then, at the end of fiscal year it will cost 10k$. Whats then?

GunsLair

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This is no news. I read about it already about six months ago. So far this law exists at the level of the idea. And no one knows if it will go into effect since officially actions with cryptocurrencies are prohibited here. But unofficially - I read about several property sale transactions have already been carried out.

BitHodler

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Quote from: ss890 on October 02, 2018, 04:31:09 AM

I believe that 19.5% is also pretty fair if you compare this with the Indian government who imposes around 30% taxes on the wealth which is above 20K USD per financial year.

I think you are mixing things up. No way Indians get taxed 30% annually based on their overall wealth. In most cases this form of taxation hovers between 0.5-2% depending on what country you are from.

The 30% tax rate you are talking about concerns capital gains, which is completely seperate from overall wealth taxation. In my case I am subject to both forms of taxation every year, and it really sucks because it feels like theft.

I can somewhat understand capital gains tax, but overall wealth taxation is the most stupid thing ever. Even if the value of your holdings goes down significantly you are still subject to that form of taxation.

It's ridiculous to pay tax over the same amount of money over and over again.

South Park

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Quote from: Delvi on September 30, 2018, 01:04:30 PM

Quote from: South Park on September 30, 2018, 12:43:19 PM

Quote from: XMLGold.eu on September 28, 2018, 08:02:22 AM

Ukraine plans to impose a tax on the operations with cryptocurrencies
See more: https://www.xmlgold.eu/en/news/article/747/ukraine-plans-to-impose-tax-on-operations-with-cryptocurrencies/

They can pass whatever laws that they want the problem for them is how are they going to identify the people that are using cryptocurrencies and how are they going to force them to pay? That is the question that no one wants to ask because they know they have no answer, so let them have their day and pass whatever laws they want, it makes no difference.

The law is designed for gullible citizens. The main thing is to sow fear, and to prescribe responsibility for violation of the law. The owner of the magazine Forklog, checked the security service of Ukraine. Computers with bitcoins were seized from him. Therefore, after the round-up it will be possible to accuse the citizens of Ukraine of tax evasion. But this method of lawlessness.

I agree with you this law was created to scare the average person to not adopt cryptocurrencies, but anyone that has been in this market for some months and understands the nature of the market is not going to be scared by this, if anything they are going to get even more motivated to secure their coins just in case the government tries to seize their computers so they will have a backup somewhere.

ss890

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Quote from: kryptqnick on September 28, 2018, 10:19:23 AM

This information about Ukraine is quite accurate, but this is just a project law among other project laws. Unfortunately, some of them were already rejected by the Parliament, so the others appear and try to look at cryptos from a different perspective. I hope this project law will not pass, because I think that cryptos shpuld be treated like money and taxing money is wrong. 5% tax is not to bad, though, but the full 19.5% is unfair, because at first one will have to pay taxes for holding cryptos, and then pay them again when buying goods (since taxes are already a part of the price).

I am not sure if you are from Ukraine or not but they do have things that are messy for us. The crypto taxes are very common now and in many countries whenever you transact more than 20K USD into your bank account then you will be getting taxed for it. For example, in my own country this is the situation and whenever my bitcoin conversion to fiat goes above 20K USD then it incurs pretty decent tax on me. I believe that 19.5% is also pretty fair if you compare this with the Indian government who imposes around 30% taxes on the wealth which is above 20K USD per financial year. That might be very relaxing for the Ukraines.

raven7886

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Quote from: XMLGold.eu on September 28, 2018, 08:02:22 AM

Ukraine plans to impose a tax on the operations with cryptocurrencies
See more: https://www.xmlgold.eu/en/news/article/747/ukraine-plans-to-impose-tax-on-operations-with-cryptocurrencies/

That is one more country that will accept bitcoin and crypto as a real payment and regulate it. The more this gets attention the more countries will follow, success of regulating bitcoin and taxing it will make other countries to do the same thing.

If countries do taxes on crypto they will make a lot of money from a new source of income from taxes and they will like it of course because they are getting paid. While we have to pay taxes we will also get the freedom to do whatever we want with crypto without being afraid of what would happen if we do exchange coins because uncertainty of some countries makes harder to trade.

valnd

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Until the end of time

In my own opinion i think the more government impose tax on crypto currency and it's operation then the more people will adopted, no doubt cryptos needs government support to make the industry to grow and one of the things they will need is to great enabling environment for cryptos operation which will give investors more confidence to invest in the space.

mostkey

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Quote from: XMLGold.eu on September 28, 2018, 08:02:22 AM

Ukraine plans to impose a tax on the operations with cryptocurrencies
See more: https://www.xmlgold.eu/en/news/article/747/ukraine-plans-to-impose-tax-on-operations-with-cryptocurrencies/

In life in every country it is certainly necessary to pay taxes because after that becomes something that is recognized by the state, there is no bad thing in applying taxes to crypto because now crypto has become part of the business to get profit other than digital currency or the other party is very profitable to be a good business entity for everyone, of course payment is determined by everyone's income to be fairer in applying it to everyone, it's good for crypto progress and the country's progress is better in the future, this is something extraordinary that can be followed by other countries, all of which argue in this thread depend on their own perspective.

Uhde

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it is so sad to hear that. but it is not a big deal. blockchain based cryptocurrencies are very good solutions against all centralized financial systems. and no any government or any authority can do a major affect against crypto market.

Delvi

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Quote from: South Park on September 30, 2018, 12:43:19 PM

Quote from: XMLGold.eu on September 28, 2018, 08:02:22 AM

Ukraine plans to impose a tax on the operations with cryptocurrencies
See more: https://www.xmlgold.eu/en/news/article/747/ukraine-plans-to-impose-tax-on-operations-with-cryptocurrencies/

They can pass whatever laws that they want the problem for them is how are they going to identify the people that are using cryptocurrencies and how are they going to force them to pay? That is the question that no one wants to ask because they know they have no answer, so let them have their day and pass whatever laws they want, it makes no difference.

The law is designed for gullible citizens. The main thing is to sow fear, and to prescribe responsibility for violation of the law. The owner of the magazine Forklog, checked the security service of Ukraine. Computers with bitcoins were seized from him. Therefore, after the round-up it will be possible to accuse the citizens of Ukraine of tax evasion. But this method of lawlessness.

esetop01tryba

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I wonder how they can do it if the cryptocurrency is fully decentralized and anonymous. I thought that they did not work.

yoseph

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Quote from: biskitop on September 28, 2018, 08:06:31 AM

I think countries in Europe are more sensitive to bitcoin and crypto. Previously, Belgium had launched 8 Bitcoin ATMs, and currently Ukraine plans to impose a tax on bitcoin.

I always say that cryptocurrencies are ways for economies of countries to make some revenue for themselves. By taxing users of cryptocurrencies the Ukrainian government is going to make some money that they wouldn't have if they made cryptos illegal in their country.

South Park

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Quote from: XMLGold.eu on September 28, 2018, 08:02:22 AM

Ukraine plans to impose a tax on the operations with cryptocurrencies
See more: https://www.xmlgold.eu/en/news/article/747/ukraine-plans-to-impose-tax-on-operations-with-cryptocurrencies/

They can pass whatever laws that they want the problem for them is how are they going to identify the people that are using cryptocurrencies and how are they going to force them to pay? That is the question that no one wants to ask because they know they have no answer, so let them have their day and pass whatever laws they want, it makes no difference.

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