Ukraine's roadmap of crypto adoption

xenon131

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on August 06, 2021, 04:13:59 PM

There has been an update recently from the ministry of digital transformation, they are preparing to move forward with their proposal for the law that will regulate crypto. In short, they plan to have 5% tax on crypto profits, though the number is not set in stone yet and could change. Currently people must pay 19.5% tax on sale regardless of profit or loss. Crypto will not be a legal tender in Ukraine, but you could pay via crypto payment cards, just like you can do now. Exchanges and other services would need to get a license, but the licensing process should be simple. Mining will not be targeted by regulations, because they think the exists law already covers it.

The most striking part of forthcoming law is not the change in taxation base but the intention to allow ^{payments in cryptocurrency.} I think if this law came into the force then Ukraine would become one of the most advanced country as to their relation to the crypto as the whole phenomenon. Would it help country's economic which (AFAIK) is focused on exporting the raw materials?

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: SFR10 on August 07, 2021, 01:20:12 AM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on August 06, 2021, 04:13:59 PM

In short, they plan to have 5% tax on crypto profits, though the number is not set in stone yet and could change. Currently people must pay 19.5% tax on sale regardless of profit or loss.

Not sure if I'm interpreting "this" part correctly, but does the new proposal essentially mean they'd be able to finally deduct their losses?

Yes, that's right. Curiously, the journalist asked about how they would verify the profits/losses and the minister said "blockchain is transperent, we can demand people to show their wallet to see all their transactions" which is a bit crypto illiterate thing to say. But on practice if you trade via centralized exchanges, there won't be any room for tax evasion.

Quote from: xenon131 on August 07, 2021, 02:16:24 AM

The most striking part of forthcoming law is not the change in taxation base but the intention to allow ^{payments in cryptocurrency.} I think if this law came into the force then Ukraine would become one of the most advanced country as to their relation to the crypto as the whole phenomenon. Would it help country's economic which (AFAIK) is focused on exporting the raw materials?

As I wrote in my earlier post, this is actually the least exciting part. Payments directly in cryptocurrency will not be allowed. This doesn't mean that people who pay with crypto on Craigslist-like sites will be prosecuted, it means that businesses will not be allowed to receive crypto directly to their wallets, just like they are not allowed to receive USD or any other currency except for UAH. What he meant by "crypto payments" was debit cards and other similar solutions that instantly convert crypto to fiat. But you can already use them, I'm sure one of those Bitcoin Visa cards that converts BTC balance into USD will even now work in Ukraine by then converting USD into UAH.

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Quote from: dataispower on July 30, 2021, 06:27:55 AM

The article says they are planning on regulating the crypto space in Ukraine hopefully they're not hellbent on bringing down the Crypto or being hostile to its usage like several countries in Asia and Africa. They Also suggested their digital asset will likely be used by 2025. This is a nice development in my opinion for a government to openl release a proposed roadmap for adoption of crypto. It is definitely a major news.

I don't even know what's going to happen to Ukraine after all of this regulation or the state of crypto but I am sure that hellbent is the right word to say in this case because they will be releasing their own digital asset and some people in the regulation might see crypto as a threat to their proposal.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on August 06, 2021, 04:13:59 PM

There has been an update recently from the ministry of digital transformation, they are preparing to move forward with their proposal for the law that will regulate crypto. In short, they plan to have 5% tax on crypto profits, though the number is not set in stone yet and could change. Currently people must pay 19.5% tax on sale regardless of profit or loss. Crypto will not be a legal tender in Ukraine, but you could pay via crypto payment cards, just like you can do now. Exchanges and other services would need to get a license, but the licensing process should be simple. Mining will not be targeted by regulations, because they think the exists law already covers it.

The 5% tax sounds very good, to be honest. I hope they go forward with it. It would be great if income in cryptos could be okay for the simplified taxation system. Also, while you say cryptos won't be a legal tender, this is also probably temporary because it's not consistent with the roadmap, according to which people will be able to eventually pay for groceries and other things with Bitcoin.

Quote from: xenon131 on August 07, 2021, 02:16:24 AM

The most striking part of forthcoming law is not the change in taxation base but the intention to allow ^{payments in cryptocurrency.} I think if this law came into the force then Ukraine would become one of the most advanced country as to their relation to the crypto as the whole phenomenon. Would it help country's economic which (AFAIK) is focused on exporting the raw materials?

The ministry surely hopes it'll help, and I think it really might. There are already some places that accept Bitcoin as payment in Ukraine, and there are lots of crypto users here as well. Introducing mild regulations would mean money from taxes flowing in, and, possibly, new businesses operating in Ukraine, creating jobs and profits. I hope they make everything clear and favorable, and in that case, I'll probably start paying taxes for my crypto-related activities.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on August 06, 2021, 04:13:59 PM

In short, they plan to have 5% tax on crypto profits, though the number is not set in stone yet and could change. Currently people must pay 19.5% tax on sale regardless of profit or loss.

Not sure if I'm interpreting "this" part correctly, but does the new proposal essentially mean they'd be able to finally deduct their losses?

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on August 06, 2021, 04:13:59 PM

Exchanges and other services would need to get a license, but the licensing process should be simple.

Looks like a "work permit" would suffice.

hatshepsut93

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There has been an update recently from the ministry of digital transformation, they are preparing to move forward with their proposal for the law that will regulate crypto. In short, they plan to have 5% tax on crypto profits, though the number is not set in stone yet and could change. Currently people must pay 19.5% tax on sale regardless of profit or loss. Crypto will not be a legal tender in Ukraine, but you could pay via crypto payment cards, just like you can do now. Exchanges and other services would need to get a license, but the licensing process should be simple. Mining will not be targeted by regulations, because they think the exists law already covers it.

just_Alice

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The interesting point is that cryptocurrencies are widely used in Ukraine by both common people and politicians, and the latter admire the anonymity and no taxes feature. I think that it would be fair to say that Ukraine may very much be among the top countries by crypto misuse.

The thing is, Ukraine is very corrupted and every other politician has unregistered money sources. Due to the recent law that requires full registration of all assets acquired by the Ukrainian politicians during the post occupation it is in their best interest to store assets anonymously, for which Bitcoin is the best option.

As a result, I think in the coming years Bitcoin will still be popularly used, but neither it will be banned, nor officially regulated.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on July 28, 2021, 03:45:44 AM

Yeah, it actually seems to be a part of the plan. The full report mentions working on e-hryvnia. According to the roadmap, they will launch in May 2023. But fortunately, they intend to make it legal to use BTC, Ethereum and other cryptos along with it.

Ukraine’s President Signs Law Allowing Central Bank to Issue a CBDC

It makes sense for Ukraine to work on CBDC, because Ukraine has quite good developers and they already have a lot of expience in developing government-owned apps, so if this CBDC will be a success, they could even sell the software to other countries. But Ukraine also has very convenient online banking, so this new CBDC would have to face some serious competition.

dataispower

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The article says they are planning on regulating the crypto space in Ukraine hopefully they're not hellbent on bringing down the Crypto or being hostile to its usage like several countries in Asia and Africa. They Also suggested their digital asset will likely be used by 2025. This is a nice development in my opinion for a government to openl release a proposed roadmap for adoption of crypto. It is definitely a major news.

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It shows Ukraine as well as other governments around the globe have known about the need of bitcoin. Earlier most of the governments accept the blockchain technology, and were against the usage of bitcoin as legal tender. Slowly few countries started to legalize as well as support the usage of cryptocurrencies. Atleast now governments weren't against the usage. Earlier governments used to make ban on the usage as well as punish severely if caught. People can now use cryptocurrencies without fear. With time we can experience similar thing all around the world.

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Obviously this is good news for the development of crypto and bitcoin in general, if there is news about government support for the development of virtual assets in a country and now of course in Ukraine, of course we are very happy that it will continue to spread to other countries.
Indeed, there are still many countries such as Ukraine that do not prohibit it, because they do not yet have clear rules. but there is no problem as long as there are no prohibitions made for trading, maybe to be used as legal money which is recognized it needs binding regulations because it can result in something that will conflict with the use of fiat.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: Pmalek on July 28, 2021, 07:58:07 AM

Quote from: kryptqnick on July 28, 2021, 03:45:44 AM

Yeah, it actually seems to be a part of the plan. The full report mentions working on e-hryvnia. According to the roadmap, they will launch in May 2023. But fortunately, they intend to make it legal to use BTC, Ethereum and other cryptos along with it.

The Ukrainians seem to be using common sense and a healthy approach to competition. We see a completely different treatment of cryptocurrencies from what we experienced with the example from the ~~People's~~ Communist Parties' Undemocratic Republic of China. Giving the people the ability and choice to make up their own mind about what they want to use is how it should be. Those less confident about their own qualities opt for bans, restrictions, and intimidation tactics.

Well, after all, Ukraine is trying to become a democracy. We have our problems, but the general pro-democratic stance is visible. So yeah, Ukraine won't restrict cryptos just because they're not under government's control. However, I don't know which KYC policies will be enforced with the upcoming regulations, so perhaps privacy will be taken away.

Quote from: Ararbermas on July 28, 2021, 09:01:24 AM

Well Ukrain is one of the most active when it comes mining with crypto currency. but it's very quite skeptical if they will literally adopt the crypto currency itself and become cryptocurrency central . because for sure if there's another illegal mining again or whatever bad new it's that will occurred from their country surely they are next reason of downtrend in the market. Indeed there's a bunch of news that ukrain has uncovers huge illegal mining, for me if it's true probably its enough to make a massive dump in the market once they got caught up like what happened to china..

Sometimes mining farms are destroyed by law enforcement, but it happens only when crimes like stealing electricity are committed. Mining operations per se aren't illegal and, to the best of my knowledge, aren't prosecuted.

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The current developments proves that the actual date will be a bit earlier that 2030.^{"Ukraine’s Largest Mobile-Payment Platform Monobank To Launch BTC Trading"} is the first shot in the battle for crypto adoption in this country .

Many things are supposed to happen before 2030. The planned changes start this autumn with passing the law on virtual assets, and many things are supposed to happen by 2024, as I've mentioned earlier. Plus, as you've mentioned, there are private companies showing interest in cryptos. Monobank didn't integrate cryptos yet, but if they do, this is going to be huge. I don't use Monobank, but many friends of mine do, and if their crypto deal goes through, I'll consider it as well.

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Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on July 24, 2021, 05:48:51 AM

As long as Ukraine is ruled by America, there is no point in hoping for any positive changes. Each decision is not discussed by members of the Ukrainian government, but always agreed with the United States.

Hmm, and what is so bad being "ruled" by the country with most Bitcoin nodes, most Bitcoin ATMs, most LN channels and nodes, most companies investing in Bitcoin, and pretty soon the country with the highest hashrate? Despite all those rambles about the evil US and all the hopes for every 3rd wold country taking the lead right now, like it or not the US is in the top 3 most bitcoin-friendly states and the one that matters most right now.

Back to Ukraine and one of the articles linked:

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on July 25, 2021, 05:57:22 AM

I thin the actual reason why regulations aren't implemented yet is that politicians don't view crypto as important enough, so they don't spend enough time to get the laws reviewed and adopted. If it was something that represented a significant portion of the economy, it would be regulated in no time.

Or rather they don't see anything as being really important, despite everything going down in Ukraine I see no big changes whatsoever in most areas, time is running out and the gap between the former Warsaw pact members is growing every day yet reforms are going at snail pace, I wouldn't except anything spectacular happening in the crypto space either.

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Well Ukrain is one of the most active when it comes mining with crypto currency. but it's very quite skeptical if they will literally adopt the crypto currency itself and become cryptocurrency central . because for sure if there's another illegal mining again or whatever bad new it's that will occurred from their country surely they are next reason of downtrend in the market. Indeed there's a bunch of news that ukrain has uncovers huge illegal mining, for me if it's true probably its enough to make a massive dump in the market once they got caught up like what happened to china..

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Quote from: kryptqnick on July 28, 2021, 03:45:44 AM

Yeah, it actually seems to be a part of the plan. The full report mentions working on e-hryvnia. According to the roadmap, they will launch in May 2023. But fortunately, they intend to make it legal to use BTC, Ethereum and other cryptos along with it.

The Ukrainians seem to be using common sense and a healthy approach to competition. We see a completely different treatment of cryptocurrencies from what we experienced with the example from the ~~People's~~ Communist Parties' Undemocratic Republic of China. Giving the people the ability and choice to make up their own mind about what they want to use is how it should be. Those less confident about their own qualities opt for bans, restrictions, and intimidation tactics.

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Quote from: Pmalek on July 25, 2021, 08:12:41 AM

All this makes me think that the Ukrainian government is also thinking of introducing its own state-regulated centralized coin. Although it's not mentioned in the article, the numbers in the last paragraph seem a bit too high. Assuming that almost 50% of all Ukrainians will use some sort of digital currency in the next 3 years seems to high unless a big chunk of it will include a digitalized government coin.

Yeah, it actually seems to be a part of the plan. The full report mentions working on e-hryvnia. According to the roadmap, they will launch in May 2023. But fortunately, they intend to make it legal to use BTC, Ethereum and other cryptos along with it.

Quote from: tranthidung on July 25, 2021, 10:24:16 AM

I fail to understand it. Electricity bills have to be paid and I guess what you implied is Ukrainian crypto miners pay electricity bills with rates that lower than they should be charged. Is it what you meant?

Well, the details can differ, but usually someone either pays less than one's supposed to pay or doesn't pay at all because of doing mining on some state-owned power plants or something, so the bills are handled by the government. So they connect to some networks where the bills are handled by someone else, thus stealing electricity.

Quote from: SFR10 on July 25, 2021, 12:50:59 PM

I'm quite impressed ^{[especially with the educational parts]}.
^{- Does the above time frames cover everything in the "full report" or you left out some?}

Quote from: kryptqnick on July 25, 2021, 03:47:04 AM

(you simply say you're an early BTC investor, and that's it).

By doing that, they'll be shooting themselves in the foot since it's not that hard to track and trace everything.

The report has tons of actions mentioned, actually, so I just chose some of them and mentioned them in that message. The roadmap is on pages 70-72.
As for stating you're an early investor, I remember that MPs used to do it in the past because they didn't need to prove anything back then (the authorities really didn't care about crypto ownership, and it wasn't even obligatory to declare it, but you're right that it's a risky act because in April 2021, the relevant authorities finally said they're starting checking whether the info on crypto ownership is true and whether there are proofs of where the money came from and when cryptos were purchased.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on July 24, 2021, 03:32:49 AM

~
"I'm sure that with the community's efforts, in regard to development of the area of virtual assets, Ukraine will not only be able to compete on the global crypto market, but also become the leading example for other countries."
Of course, it's too early to say for sure, as there's no legislation that passed on the matter yet, but what are your thoughts on this?

This is the situation with other countries as well, Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is a new market and you cannot expect every country to come out with rules and regulation, the government has to take initiative and study the concept and if there are influencers in the country then they can support the government in trying to understand the concept of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency and then they need to frame a law and it all takes time.

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Quote from: buwaytress on July 25, 2021, 04:11:59 AM

I do recall a discussion perhaps a couple of montha ago about the reason why draft laws or suggestions haven't even got to the stage of proposal forwarding for voting, and it's because it'd be a convenient way for politicians there to just suddenly declare their wealth by saying they've been early adopters and buying Bitcoin since whenever. Tax-free so no questions asked?

See this one: Ukrainian civil servants (read as politicians) own $2.6 billion in Bitcoin.

Ukrainian officials have always favored cryptocurrency, therefore, the legislative body of this state has introduced several good bills on the legalization of cryptocurrency, and some even provide for the absence of taxation when making a profit in cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrency is also quite popular among the population of Ukraine, therefore, the above statements of the Deputy Minister of Digital Information about cryptocurrency are not something new. While it is safe to say that the cryptocurrency in this country will be legalized, it will be free to move and develop.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on July 24, 2021, 03:32:49 AM

but what are your thoughts on this?

Quote from: kryptqnick on July 25, 2021, 03:47:04 AM

There are detailed time frames in the full report in Ukrainian. They intend to pass the law on virtual assets in September 2021, work on taxation and KYC policies in January 2022, make it possible to officially exchange cryptos for fiat and vice versa + establish the school program on virtual assets by July 2022, and open a master's program on DeFi in May 2024 (among many other things).

I'm quite impressed ^{[especially with the educational parts]}.
^{- Does the above time frames cover everything in the "full report" or you left out some?}

Quote from: kryptqnick on July 25, 2021, 03:47:04 AM

(you simply say you're an early BTC investor, and that's it).

By doing that, they'll be shooting themselves in the foot since it's not that hard to track and trace everything.

Quote from: tranthidung on July 25, 2021, 10:24:16 AM

Quote from: kryptqnick on July 24, 2021, 03:32:49 AM

unless someone's doing something clearly illegal, such as mining cryptos and not paying the electricity bills.

I fail to understand it. Electricity bills have to be paid and I guess what you implied is Ukrainian crypto miners pay electricity bills with rates that lower than they should be charged. Is it what you meant?

I believe @kryptqnick was referring to those that steal electricity ^{[without any payments]} but there are also a few that have done it partially ^{[e.g. underground cryptocurrency mining operation busted by Ukraine police]}.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on July 24, 2021, 03:32:49 AM

Right now, cryptos are in a gray area in Ukraine: lots of people use it, no taxes are paid, and the authorities are fine with it all, unless someone's doing something clearly illegal, such as mining cryptos and not paying the electricity bills.

I fail to understand it. Electricity bills have to be paid and I guess what you implied is Ukrainian crypto miners pay electricity bills with rates that lower than they should be charged. Is it what you meant?

Quote

We've had several draft laws before which attempted to regulate the crypto industry, but they all failed to gain enough support in the Parliament. However, I think this time is different because the Ministry of digital transformation is involved.

When cryptocurrency become bigger and go to mainstream, deeper in human civilization than now, it will be a time for all governments to adjust their policies, laws, etc. in order to accept cryptocurrency officially in their nations. They will do more regulations, and force the stricter taxation policies on crypto investors / traders.

I see it is a normal trend and people should not feel over panic with changes in governmental policies.

Topic: Ukraine's roadmap of crypto adoption (Read 434 times)