Topic: UK&#039;s Plans to Regulate Bitcoin - page 2. (Read 2958 times)

Quote from: r0ach on March 21, 2015, 03:12:52 PM

A small price to pay for not getting goxxed, vircurexed, GBLed, and many others.

Amateur hour is over!

Study: 45 percent of Bitcoin exchanges end up closing: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-04/26/large-bitcoin-exchanges-attacks

That's your opinion. Can you not be content to patronise those exchanges which actively invite proof of solvency and insurance? Must you work towards forcing your model of the ideal exchange on everyone else?

Not an opinion, it's fact!

Scammers will scam!

To clarify: "A small price to pay for not getting goxxed, vircurexed, GBLed, and many others." is an opinion. One could just as easily consider the price too high.

Certainly scammers will scam, just as regulators will regulate, but such observations do not magically render the subjective objective.

countryfree

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Quote from: countryfree on March 21, 2015, 02:13:10 PM

I'm not afraid, I'm sure there will be a minimum. Say if you want to buy 50 BTC, you will have to explain where your money comes from.

This is why in China, they started to buy mining gear instead of Bitcoin itself in order to get money out of their country once the government came down on it. Even if the profitability of mining decreases, hash keeps going up from things like this (as well as technical advances obviously).

So just how effective are these AML laws when people can just buy hardware instead?

Regulation will come afterwards, when people will look for ways to exchange their freshly mined coins into fiat.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2015, 05:29:42 PM

I simply can't imagine how it would be possible to make a decentralized exchange allowing to trade directly all the currencies out there (dollars, euro, bitcoins). Whenever I think about it, I came to same idea that is already implemented in the BitShares blockchain. Theoretically, the bitcoin blockchain could mirror the BitShares functionality in the future, but that would be a huge change...

The personage who mentioned this in the first place phrased it as 'exchanging with each other in a decentralised format'. That's pretty much a localbitcoins or bitcoin.de that maybe bypasses a vulnerable website. Or perhaps there's something very impressive up their sleeve.

deisik

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Quote from: pedrog on March 22, 2015, 05:20:52 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2015, 05:15:24 PM

It is a decentralized exchange, so you don't bear the risk of your money being stolen by any exchange like Bitstamp, Kraken or Coinbase, and their kind. It seems complicated, that's why you probably didn't understand the technology behind it before. But now, I hope, you do...

Sure, but if it isn't an alternative to current exchanges and it is not suitable for 'average people' to use it, its impact on bitcoin's economy is going to be negligible.

It may be good for altcoin exchanges thought.

I simply can't imagine how it would be possible to make a decentralized exchange allowing to trade directly all the currencies out there (dollars, euro, bitcoins). Whenever I think about it, I come to the same idea that is already implemented in the BitShares blockchain. Theoretically, the bitcoin blockchain could mirror the BitShares functionality in the future, but that would be a hell of a change...

pedrog

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Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2015, 05:15:24 PM

It is a decentralized exchange, so you don't bear the risk of your money being stolen by any exchange like Bitstamp, Kraken or Coinbase, and their kind. It seems complicated, that's why you probably didn't understand the technology behind it before. But now, I hope, you do...

Sure, but if it isn't an alternative to current exchanges and it is not suitable for 'average people' to use it, its impact on bitcoin's economy is going to be negligible.

It may be good for altcoin exchanges thought.

deisik

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Quote from: pedrog on March 22, 2015, 04:48:41 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2015, 03:48:41 PM

Quote from: pedrog on March 22, 2015, 03:20:40 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2015, 03:48:41 PM

In short, a decentralized exchange is the blockchain itself. As I got it from a BitShares guy, when you buy or sell some asset on it, the execution of the deal is insured by the coin of the blockchain (as a collateral), so if you try to revert the deal (or your counterpart, for that matter), you (your counterpart) will lose the blockchain money, that is, the collateral...

So, I does someone buy bitcoin in such an exchange?

I have a bank account full of euros and I ant to buy a few bitcoin, how would that go?

I guess you won't be able to directly buy bitcoins with euros using this exchange, since the currency of the BitShares blockchain is, well, BitShares, which is used as a collateral for so-called BitAssets (bitUSD, bitEuro, bitBTC), the price of which (denominated in BitShares) corresponds the price of the underlying, that is USD, Euro, BTC...

So it is not an alternative to the kind of exchanges we already have, like Bitstamp, Kraken or Coinbase, plus it seems a lot more complicated than current exchanges for someone who just wants to buy a few bitcoins.

It is a decentralized exchange, so you don't bear the risk of your money being stolen by any exchange like Bitstamp, Kraken or Coinbase, and their kind. It seems complicated, that's why you probably didn't understand the technology behind it before. But now, I hope, you do...

pedrog

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Quote from: pedrog on March 22, 2015, 03:20:40 PM

Quote from: pedrog on March 22, 2015, 03:20:40 PM

In short, a decentralized exchange is the blockchain itself. As I got it from a BitShares guy, when you buy or sell some asset on it, the execution of the deal is insured by the coin of the blockchain (as a collateral), so if you try to revert the deal (or your counterpart, for that matter), you (your counterpart) will lose the blockchain money, that is, the collateral...

So, I does someone buy bitcoin in such an exchange?

I have a bank account full of euros and I ant to buy a few bitcoin, how would that go?

I guess you won't be able to directly buy bitcoins with euros using this exchange, since the currency of the BitShares blockchain is, well, BitShares, which is used as a collateral for so-called BitAssets (bitUSD, bitEuro, bitBTC), the price of which (denominated in BitShares) corresponds the price of the underlying, that is USD, Euro, BTC...

So it is not an alternative to the kind of exchanges we already have, like Bitstamp, Kraken or Coinbase, plus it seems a lot more complicated than current exchanges for someone who just wants to buy a few bitcoins.

deisik

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In short, a decentralized exchange is the blockchain itself. As I got it from a BitShares guy, when you buy or sell some asset on it, the execution of the deal is insured by the coin of the blockchain (as a collateral), so if you try to revert the deal (or your counterpart, for that matter), you (your counterpart) will lose the blockchain money, that is, the collateral...

So, I does someone buy bitcoin in such an exchange?

I have a bank account full of euros and I ant to buy a few bitcoin, how would that go?

I guess you won't be able to directly buy bitcoins with euros using this exchange, since the currency of the BitShares blockchain is, well, BitShares, which is used as a collateral for so-called BitAssets (bitUSD, bitEuro, bitBTC), the price of which (denominated in BitShares) corresponds the price of the underlying, that is USD, Euro, BTC...

pedrog

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That's your opinion. Can you not be content to patronise those exchanges which actively invite proof of solvency and insurance? Must you work towards forcing your model of the ideal exchange on everyone else?

Not an opinion, it's fact!

Scammers will scam!

If people have trust issues with decentralised exchanges or completely unregulated exchanges then they will favour the exchanges which provide a safer, highly regulated environment. If many people feel this way then such exchanges will thrive, while the sketchy exchanges will remain illiquid and collapse regularly.

All government regulations achieve here is to remove some freedom from the people. People are being denied the freedom to experiment. This is defended as: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and fail" but what is left unsaid is: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and succeed".

If you feel that when you know better than other people how they should handle their money and further that you have a moral duty to control these people for their own good then we're opposed in principle and will likely never agree.

I still don't know what a decentralized exchange is...

In short, a decentralized exchange is the blockchain itself. As I got it from a BitShares guy, when you buy or sell some asset on it, the execution of the deal is insured by the coin of the blockchain (as a collateral), so if you try to revert the deal (or your counterpart, for that matter), you (your counterpart) will lose the blockchain money, that is, the collateral...

So, I does someone buy bitcoin in such an exchange?

I have a bank account full of euros and I ant to buy a few bitcoin, how would that go?

minerbit hill

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I'm really concerned that this could be an issue for newcomers.

deisik

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That's your opinion. Can you not be content to patronise those exchanges which actively invite proof of solvency and insurance? Must you work towards forcing your model of the ideal exchange on everyone else?

Not an opinion, it's fact!

Scammers will scam!

If people have trust issues with decentralised exchanges or completely unregulated exchanges then they will favour the exchanges which provide a safer, highly regulated environment. If many people feel this way then such exchanges will thrive, while the sketchy exchanges will remain illiquid and collapse regularly.

All government regulations achieve here is to remove some freedom from the people. People are being denied the freedom to experiment. This is defended as: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and fail" but what is left unsaid is: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and succeed".

If you feel that when you know better than other people how they should handle their money and further that you have a moral duty to control these people for their own good then we're opposed in principle and will likely never agree.

I still don't know what a decentralized exchange is...

In short, a decentralized exchange is the blockchain itself. As I got it from a BitShares guy, when you buy or sell some asset on it, the execution of the deal is insured by the coin of the blockchain (as a collateral), so if you try to revert the deal (or your counterpart, for that matter), you (your counterpart) will lose the blockchain money, that is, the collateral...

BillyBobZorton

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That's your opinion. Can you not be content to patronise those exchanges which actively invite proof of solvency and insurance? Must you work towards forcing your model of the ideal exchange on everyone else?

Not an opinion, it's fact!

Scammers will scam!

If people have trust issues with decentralised exchanges or completely unregulated exchanges then they will favour the exchanges which provide a safer, highly regulated environment. If many people feel this way then such exchanges will thrive, while the sketchy exchanges will remain illiquid and collapse regularly.

All government regulations achieve here is to remove some freedom from the people. People are being denied the freedom to experiment. This is defended as: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and fail" but what is left unsaid is: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and succeed".

If you feel that when you know better than other people how they should handle their money and further that you have a moral duty to control these people for their own good then we're opposed in principle and will likely never agree.

I still don't know what a decentralized exchange is...

A decentralized exchange means you don't have to store your bitcoins somewhere else, it's like P2P exchange.. or something along the lines. I have no idea how day trading would work tho.

pedrog

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That's your opinion. Can you not be content to patronise those exchanges which actively invite proof of solvency and insurance? Must you work towards forcing your model of the ideal exchange on everyone else?

Not an opinion, it's fact!

Scammers will scam!

If people have trust issues with decentralised exchanges or completely unregulated exchanges then they will favour the exchanges which provide a safer, highly regulated environment. If many people feel this way then such exchanges will thrive, while the sketchy exchanges will remain illiquid and collapse regularly.

All government regulations achieve here is to remove some freedom from the people. People are being denied the freedom to experiment. This is defended as: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and fail" but what is left unsaid is: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and succeed".

If you feel that when you know better than other people how they should handle their money and further that you have a moral duty to control these people for their own good then we're opposed in principle and will likely never agree.

I still don't know what a decentralized exchange is...

teukon

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Quote from: deisik on March 20, 2015, 03:30:46 PM

Quote from: pedrog on March 20, 2015, 01:30:24 PM

Exchanges already apply those directives, well, at least Bitstamp does.

It would be nice not just AML/KYC but also insurance and proof of solvency, AML/KYC does shit when exchanges get robbed or run away with our coins...

This would obviously incur additional costs and expenses for the exchanges that decide positively on insurance or agree upon external audit. In this case they will have to volens-nolens raise the fees which their clients will have to pay...

A small price to pay for not getting goxxed, vircurexed, GBLed, and many others.

Amateur hour is over!

Study: 45 percent of Bitcoin exchanges end up closing: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-04/26/large-bitcoin-exchanges-attacks

That's your opinion. Can you not be content to patronise those exchanges which actively invite proof of solvency and insurance? Must you work towards forcing your model of the ideal exchange on everyone else?

Quote from: pedrog on March 21, 2015, 02:21:38 PM

Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on March 21, 2015, 02:15:51 PM

True, but wouldn't a decentralized exchange fix issue tho? In any case im not leaving a single satoshi in any of the exchanges even if I trust them (like Poloniex). Unfortunately I cant do day trading because of the fear.

How does a decentralized exchange work?

I also have serious trust issues.

I do some trading but, but I only left a small value on exchanges for daytrading, usually less than 0.5 BTC.

If people have trust issues with decentralised exchanges or completely unregulated exchanges then they will favour the exchanges which provide a safer, highly regulated environment. If many people feel this way then such exchanges will thrive, while the sketchy exchanges will remain illiquid and collapse regularly.

All government regulations achieve here is to remove some freedom from the people. People are being denied the freedom to experiment. This is defended as: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and fail" but what is left unsaid is: "The people should not be allowed to experiment and succeed".

If you feel that when you know better than other people how they should handle their money and further that you have a moral duty to control these people for their own good then we're opposed in principle and will likely never agree.

r0ach

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Quote from: countryfree on March 21, 2015, 02:13:10 PM

I'm not afraid, I'm sure there will be a minimum. Say if you want to buy 50 BTC, you will have to explain where your money comes from.

This is why in China, they started to buy mining gear instead of Bitcoin itself in order to get money out of their country once the government came down on it. Even if the profitability of mining decreases, hash keeps going up from things like this (as well as technical advances obviously).

So just how effective are these AML laws when people can just buy hardware instead?

pedrog

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Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on March 21, 2015, 02:15:51 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 20, 2015, 03:30:46 PM

Quote from: pedrog on March 20, 2015, 01:30:24 PM

Exchanges already apply those directives, well, at least Bitstamp does.

It would be nice not just AML/KYC but also insurance and proof of solvency, AML/KYC does shit when exchanges get robbed or run away with our coins...

This would obviously incur additional costs and expenses for the exchanges that decide positively on insurance or agree upon external audit. In this case they will have to volens-nolens raise the fees which their clients will have to pay...

A small price to pay for not getting goxxed, vircurexed, GBLed, and many others.

Amateur hour is over!

Study: 45 percent of Bitcoin exchanges end up closing: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-04/26/large-bitcoin-exchanges-attacks

True, but wouldn't a decentralized exchange fix issue tho? In any case im not leaving a single satoshi in any of the exchanges even if I trust them (like Poloniex). Unfortunately I cant do day trading because of the fear.

How does a decentralized exchange work?

I also have serious trust issues.

I do some trading but, but I only left a small value on exchanges for daytrading, usually less than 0.5 BTC.

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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