Topic: Universal Basic Income - page 2. (Read 731 times)

UBI is only freely given temporarily.

When all the farmers sit back and live on their UBI, where does anybody get food from? If only 1 or 2 farmers keep on farming because they enjoy it, the price of food will skyrocket. Your UBI check won't be enough to cover the cost. Besides, there won't be enough food to go around, anyway. Same with everything else.

Maybe you can eat the check your UBI is printed on. But more than likely, it will be electronic, until the banks and Internet fail because all the bankers and Internet people are living free on their UBI.

The only way UBI might succeed is if we have enough automation... robots to do everything for us. But the world isn't far enough along into robotics to even think of UBI.

For example, let's say I'm born into wealth, should I waste my life working for no reason? What's wrong with taking what is freely given? There is a large degree of self righteousness in what you've written

Hey. It's great winning a little at the lottery sometimes. But living free off some UBI isn't what we were made for.

Have you been working your butt off for a whole bunch of years? Are you tired? Use the UBI for a while to get rested up. But stand like a man and pull your own weight, earning your own money.

It's you welfare leaches that are wrecking the economic system for us all. Get out there and work for what you get.

If they don't make robots that can work for free, UBI will fail. Make the robots first, so we can see that UBI can succeed. Right now, there aren't near enough robots in near enough fields to support us for free. UBI will fail, and you UBI users will fail right along with it.

How does it incur a loss of honor? I'll take yours if you don't want it 

Isn't your honor worth more than money to you?   

You'd say no to it if everyone else was collecting it? No point refusing it there...

My personal opinion is that as the work-force dwindles the government will as-a-result collect less taxes. Not only less income tax but almost all others as-well. If I do not work then I cannot pay for vehicle registration, fishing license, property taxes...etc. The government will notice that and as a result as time progresses, the older/outdated work-force dies off; with that same progression of time what is being taught in our schools will change to reflect the change in society, resulting in a cancellation effect. We most likely will not be alive when this problem exists, we will have been replaced by a society that has been taught(trained) to function in this new world gradually over time. Therefor your theoretical problem will not exist. Criticism on my thoughts is welcomed

The real question is, Will you be forced by government to accept UBI.

Anybody who takes pride in his work, or in the fact that he IS working, wouldn't want to accept UBI.

Personally, I think universal basic income is inevitable but I'm not fully aligned with your conclusions around the "welfare trap". The younger generations are already positioning themselves more as designers (engineers, coders etc) so I think the real challenge is for the older generations. The first jobs to go will be manual labour jobs like driving or stacking shelves and I think many will be glad to stop these and begin receiving UBI.

For many people, they don't work for money exclusively, they work for money to be able to pay for their necessities (food,shelter,clothing etc). I think its very difficult for people to understand the concept of free money and I could see some kind of indirect form of UBI in which necessities are provided. It's easier from a physcological perspective to invent and introduce technologies and concepts which cover these costs than re-invent the monetary system.

And finally, If we do achieve some kind of UBI, The beauty of the system (if implemented well) means that it doesn't matter what people do with their time. I think many people will sit for a few months chilling on netflix and playing the xbox but the human mind (without always realising it) craves meaning. I believe many people will follow passions they were forced to give up like art or music because they were unable to make a career out of it. For those more innovation driven, working on worldwide problems like disease, famine, renewable systems and potentially as far as lightspeed travel. I think that until we take care of our basic human needs, only then can we truly reach our potential as humans and push the boundaries of what we know and understand.

If anyone reading wants an interesting book related to this, i found bulls**t jobs by david graeber to be really useful.

I don't know, we have resources for everyone but is everyone willing to work just as hard? Are you willing to work in construction? Are you willing to wipe shit? Why should someone that is not willing to work at all get a basic income at all? It's not too clear to me.

A rational point is the revolution you refer to.
But there are a lot of other strategies that rich people follow in order to make poor people unable to act. For example, in many latin countries there is a lot of poverty but still there is not any revolution because the rich know how to handle them.

For average people, reasonable agony increases intelligence. The agony of having to fight for survival by earning money increases IQ. UBI stifles agony for a while, by making it easy for all people to live without feeling the agony so much. They are shuffled into IQ-reducing complacency by UBI.

Those few who always have a burr under their saddle, and are ambitious and intelligent, have the chance to take control when UBI drops the IQ of most average people. UBI gives us a whole new world slavery pattern because of this.

We have enough resources for everyone its just that greedy people at the top like to hoard.  UBI is a natural progression towards an advanced society.  Remember if wealth inequality gets too far out of hand the wealthy will be exposed to the very real threat of revolution.  Poor people would rather flip the game board over and start again making all those dollars worthless.

^^^ But it will be good for Bitcoin. Fiat will collapse under such a system. Bitcoin will remain in use among the freedom-loving entrepreneurs. So the starving masses - who will have quit working because of free income - will move over to the Bitcoin side, just to have an easier way to get food than bartering. The early adopters will become filthy rich as masses realize that they have to work to survive.

UBI is a really neat idea for us Bitcoiners, even though many people will die because of it.

UBI turns the citizenry from the parent of the state to the ward of the state. It is designed to strip nations of independence and rights among other economic dumpster fires.

You need to realize that the government doesn't do anything to people... not in the USA, that is. If it seems that government is doing it, it is really government PEOPLE doing it.

There are two ways another man/woman harms you. These are actual harm/property-damage, and direct threat.

If there is a law that has been passed, and it threatens you, take the people who passed it to court for threatening you. Forget their government office. Get the name of the man/woman, and file a claim against them in court. Do it with the guaranteed jury trial... guaranteed by the 6th and 7th Amendments.

Before you do this, get a bunch of your friends together, and sign limited rights of attorney with them, so that if you are tossed into jail by some corrupt politician who has power, that your friends can file the paperwork into court for you. And get them to make the same kind of claim against the same government jokers as you do... with more of their friends having limited power of attorney contracts with them.


Since most people forego this freedom they have, they don't have any other method except for the vote to remove corrupt politicians from government. But they also don't have authority to form mobs - demonstrations - and physically do something about their problem. Why not? They haven't exhausted their legal remedy by using the 6th or 7th Amendment against the man/woman who harmed or threatened them by enacting a law.

They could just make a legit currency that is not a scam and no one has to die, later they will realize they don`t even need currency but a fair one to start would be legit.

The Declaration of Independence
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

ok so let`s do it ourselves?

Also yes, we the peons "something need doing? work work"  

Any taxes on the rich are simply passed on in the form of higher prices to us peons.

Nobody will NOT be part of a 10,000... just to fight off the other 10,000s. It's the people among each 10,000 that will barter among themselves.

Of course people will die while others live. Western Europe and the whole Western Hemisphere have relative peace, especially when compared with places like Pakistan. So the live/die thing is happening right now.

It's a fundamental element of 'technocracy' with an energy-denominated monetary system.  Looks now like they will call it 'carbon credits.'  With 5G the system on-line (and a global calamity of some nature) 'technocracy' can be switched on.

Don't get your hopes of for a taxation system which touches 'the rich'.  This is the group which is pushing the system.  Technocracy with it's UBI will be feudalism and there won't be as many 'lords' as there were back in the day.  Probably only one.