Topic: [UNO] Unobtanium Info & Discussion - Hardfork block 1042000 - Merge Mine w/BTC! - page 746. (Read 1047035 times)

is there a way we can get the complete transaction-history of uLpiP5hE8fPF4iEvhix4HCKTTWfWADZTb5 ? Explorers say 'too much to display'. Would be interesting to make analysis on that adress.

Thanks, V500. It's just a theory I thought it was interesting. I had heard from others in the community confidentially that they were concerned about the stolen CoinEx UNO.  A few suspected steady dumping was occurring, though there was no hard evidence available. It's all circumstantial at this stage, but maybe someone smarter with better tools will suss it out more. The sudden disappearance of the #1 wallet, and the appearance of a new #1 right after the CoinEx hack was announced was a surprise to me.

Thanks, glad you like it. UNO is more than just its technical specs, that's what I was trying to convey there.


About the market situation:
I don't agree there is no buy support. Its just that whenever any significant buy support has gathered and it looks like price is gonna have to rise, several hundreds of kgs get dumped at once. This has happened so often I have stopped counting. And every time it happened the buy support came back, but always a bit lower, because everyone hopes to catch one of those really low dumps, me included.

This is what is driving price down IMO. Is it intentional/manipulation? Is it the stolen CoinEx UNO (which I previsouly suggested were much more coins than anybody thought)? Hell if I know. I can't read order books and markets like that. Supply is so low though, that once demand starts growing price is going to go up crazy fast! It may take a year to get there, but I am still very optimistic about the long-term potential of Unobtanium.

Ok, I need to get a life. I just spent the last hour cutting and pasting text from the Coinia richlist as it downloaded the UNO block chain. It seemed just too unique of an opportunity to pass up.

Believe it or not, when I started the "what do you see going on," discussion earlier today,  I had wanted to talk about Coinex and the possibility that a thief may be dumping stolen coins on the market, depressing the price. But I had no idea I would get this opportunity with the Richlist today.  After I had posted here, I got an email from Agran out of the blue, saying he had restored the old richlist. I checked it out and saw it was showing the richlist from January.

As agran's richlist downloaded the UNO block chain I copied text snapshots of the top wallets between January and June 2014.

Here's what I was able to get:

http://pastebin.com/jnQXkRSV

Perhaps you can help with some analysis. But here are a few things I quickly noticed along the way.

In January the top wallet (uLpiP5hE8fPF4iEvhix4HCKTTWfWADZTb5, I will call it  uLpiP-) had 19k uno, and #3 wallet (udYSEGN-) had about 4.75k uno.
[Update: We now have proof that uLpiP belonged to Coinex:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=527500.msg7530998#msg7530998 ]


I tried to capture a bunch of richlist snapshots in February, around the time of the Wolong pump but I haven't noticed anything particularly interesting; it looks like top wallet around that time was fairly active and had been selling off a bit. Wolong probably converted BTC to UNO, and then UNO back to BTC on the exchange, never transferring his UNO off the exchange, so it won't appear in the UNO block chain.

The Coinex hack was announced on Twitter on March 16.



Here is what the UNO "Richlist" looked like the day that CoinEx alleged it had problems. The #1 wallet, uPip has been connected by me and others to CoinEx through our withdrawals. It's the main Coinex wallet for UNO.



On March 17, a new wallet appeared at #3 (uffGuBZtoJTP8f4nAQKRSCrxKWECzugXn3 , which I'll call uffGuBZ-) with 4k uno that was conclusively withdrawn from the #1 ulPip Coinex wallet.


Then on March 18, the #1 wallet, uLpiP- completely disappeared from the list, and uffGuBZ jumped to the #1 spot with 9,313 uno.



uffGuBZ has been slowly liquidating since May, when UNO had a lot of good news and the price rightly rose upwards of .006.  Remember, in March this wallet was at 9,313 uno.  By May 8th it had 6500 uno.  May 17, 6350. May 20, 5900.  May 25, 4650.   May 28, 4000 (drops to #2 position).   May 31, 3700.   June 1, 2850 (#6).  June 7, 2250 (#12).  

Here's my best guess:
We know that on the day CoinEx announced its problems, there was 165,137.50146107 uno, and that CoinEx's ULpiP wallet had 8,695.43815399 Uno or 5.26% of total supply at that time.

I suspect a link between the stolen Coinex UNO and uffGuBz-.  [edit: Voluntarist500 found the connection between uLpiP and uffGuBZ ] The thief may have been taking advantage of the higher prices in May to liquidate their holdings. Obviously, selling 9k uno (especially when combined with the accelerated mining of UNO because of the block timing) has been putting a LOT of downward pressure on Unobtanium.

uffGuBz now has just 300 uno as I write this  ( https://chainz.cryptoid.info/uno/address.dws?uffGuBZtoJTP8f4nAQKRSCrxKWECzugXn3.htm )
Since exchange trading happens off the blockchain, you wouldn't expect the wallet transfers to match what's happening in the market price exactly.   I suspect coins were moved from this big wallet to exchange accounts in smaller increments so as not to attract a lot of attention.

I think this latest sell off has been a coordinated effort that has gone across virtually all of UNO's markets.  I had my buy orders fill virtually on the same day on Mintpal, Cryptsy, Coins-e, and Allcrypt. I also saw a dump occurred on Coinbroker.io around the same time.

Although the uffGuBz wallet is nearly empty, we don't know how many stolen uno still remain in his exchange balance.
We also don't know if there are other smaller wallets that escaped my attention.
We don't even know if any of this is true.

But the pieces and the timing seem to fit.

I can see how this would have a very depressing effect on the UNO market -- despite all the good news, the active community, new services, talented new devs, good publicity... the price goes down and the psychological effect is brutal.

But if we understand that this could be the effect two powerful influences:  stolen coins being dumped, and rapid mining of uno, what we really have here is a *fantastic* opportunity.

First, the dumping will stop eventually, because the presumed-thief wants out. He has no reason to hang around, and wants a more liquid market. So go ahead and post those buy orders for .0015 -- he'll probably fill them.  I see many of you are already expecting more dumping and are stacking buy orders between .001 and .002 (hell, I am too); they're on the books, you can see them yourself.  And why not -- as long term UNO supporters and owners, you may as well buy back the stolen UNO cheap and join the "1% owners" club. In the short term, I think UNO could fall quite a bit further, until the thief is done. As someone who is in largely above .005, I'm not pleased about it in the short term, but long term I know I'm OK.  UNO is quite literally a steal at these prices.

Second, the mining is slowing. 0.9.5 is already producing longer block times. The 0.9.5 code has restored UNO to the original slower 3 minute block times and I am already seeing the effect of this in the block explorer, as spacing between blocks is increasing.  And Timewarp protection has stopped the accelerated mining and stealing from our core miners.

You understand what this all means, right?   Flooding UNO on the market is about to stop.  We're already to nearly 190,000 uno out of only 250k that will ever exist. Another reward halving will occur rather soon. The last 50k Uno will be mined at a tremendously low block reward. And the final 250-thousandth UNO won't be mined for nearly 300 years!  That means for all practical purposes, UNO is essentially mined out.

My guess (and feel 100% free to disagree with me) is that UNO today is a very, very unique opportunity in crypto. UNO is not POS -- you don't get free UNO just for owning some.  Unobtanaium is virtually mined out, and if Erundook at Coinex.pw hadn't been such a fuckup, the price of UNO would be much higher than it is right now.

My money is squarely bet on the success of UNO. Look where we were in March -- and look at the progress we've had since then. If uffGuBz had not liquidated nearly 10k uno in a short period, and so much uno hadn't been mined because of accelerated block times, (more than 75,000 uno has been mined just this year) I absolutely believe that the price of UNO would be .007 to .01, much closer to where it belongs.

That's what I'm seeing and thinking right now. My best guess. Would love to hear yours.

[made a few edits for clarity]

investement-opportunity of a lifetime. Right there.

i like that introduction on the new website. Who ever made that: good job. Also that fullmoon is a nice feature.

the dump yesterday could also have been caused by coinwarz showing wrong data on networkactivity possibly because of the wallet update. I wrote them a mail to update their infopage. They will do so in a short time.
[just checked - they updated it already]

Check this out! The old rich list is back.
It's downloading the block chain. You can watch the the top wallets scroll by for prior dates. It's currently in April 2014. I'm trying to grab some of this as it goes along....

http://coinia.net/unobtanium/getbalance.php?top=20

Still think we should move ahead with the new richlist project/Explorer for reliability/backup.

i am out of btc. Dump it more and i cash out other alts for it or take a loan. lol. 4 months of dumping!
Need better buysupport? Do some twitter, maketing etc.
I will start some promotion too.
(creating twitter now and thinking about promo)
Uno on 0.002? I buy for sure. Move down your sellorders i'll buy them (resulting in spread again of course - lol). To be honest i bought enough but maybe i will buy more than enough if it becomes much cheaper. The Un i buy are off market afterwards. They vanish for a long time in one of my wallets. You get them with the next bubble for 50$+
That bubble has not arrived yet. It may take 3 months or 6 months or 12 months or maybe 2 years but it will come. In the end the patience will be rewarded and i will sell those Un i bought today for less than 2$ for 50$+ one day. I can wait. In the meantime we should look for making the coin stand out more and make it more attractive to outsiders.

i have seen maidsafe coin standing with no buysupport at all and not crashing. Strange things happen around here

price is ONLY created by supply and demand. Supply is low for Un - demand right now is low too. Supply will not become more demand can change within days sometimes hours.

When LTC will see 20$ again Un will see 20$ too. We may go through some pain as btc rises but history will repeat. If you believe in btc 1k$ it is easy to believe in Un 5$ - i see both happen within the next 18 months. Go to your local bank, they offer you 1% on deposits per year. Go to Un, it offers you potentially many hundred percent. Stock market can crash any second. Inflation is at the doorstep. Look at precious metals they show the way now. Btc and Un aswell as some other alts will see some mayor appreciation soon enough. Just hodl, buy more, hodl. Spend your fiat on silver, gold, platinum, btc, LTC, and Un - you will be golden. No doubt. FINISH UP DUMPERS! SPARTANS WILL LAUGH AT YOU!

[done editing - need a cig now]

No buy support.

look for how long they dump on us. For months and months. Since 15th of february straight dumpage in one orgy. So yes, i buy it as cheap as possible - one satoshi above the highest bid. Dumpers need to finish up their dumping. Uno wasn't created to be dumped all the time. SINCE 14th of FEBRUARY - THIS IS END OF JUNE NOW! Getting rid of dumpers is good. Buy them out. Maybe the dumping-terrorists continue to torture us, but in the end - the supply is limited and the inflation is close to nill.

I see normal selling of UNO, but I don't see buyers supporting the bid side.  The buyers add one satoshi to the low of any dump.  (exaggeration)

Something is wrong with this picture.

-

Well, I apologize for writing too much, so I'll close with saying:  get used to seeing 0.002's for a little while.  You don't have to sell, if you don't want to.

i think the dumps are highly irrational by now. Maybe pure manipulation. Patience wins the day here. If they want to sell Un for 0.001 to me, alright. I am still not selling it back to them for 0.002 but for 0.008 at the very least. Let them dump more! I want it cheaper!
The first merchants to adopt need to be some kind of traders and holders too at this point. People to sell stuff for Un and dump it on the market is not what we need right now.  

People are also using the orderbook wrong. They dump because they want money now, now, now - immediately. But in reality dumping means you think the price doesn't go higher than this. So yeah. Let's buy the dumpers out. I will not move my sells down and not move my buy up. I love this spread. They sell uno to me for 0.002? fine. I sell it back to them for 4 times that in a bit of time. That's how i make my profit Remember uno was made in an attempt to reduce the dumping. All that dumpage right now is pure wickedness. It'll stop at one point. There is no infinite supply.

We should actually really focus on building services and other good stuff to make it more useable and attractive. Maybe start some good marketing. Tweet more. look what other coins do with twitter. Let's get crazy on twitter as a first step maybe?
I agree on looking for good deals and merchants for the coin. Right now i am offering alpaca socks for uno and that is no joke. You can buy alpaca socks with uno from me.

Your probably right on this, but high volatility and especially the terrible spreads are not attractive conditions for merchants.

Another totally different option is for the UNO community to STOP SELLING UNO CHEAP!!!  ...But merchants, miners, and participants who need liquidity sell into the bids, which are much lower than what 'we' want to sell for.  Obviously UNO market participants are not capable of supporting the higher prices with bids, (or we'd see it,) for whatever reason.  Obviously we don't have the money, greedy bidders aside.  -And then there is pressure from exchanges wanting higher volumes, too!

i am holding silver as well as uno and i can also get my hands on alpaca socks. If you want one of those you can contact me via pm and we can negotiate a deal

A whole different strategy for UNO could be this, but it's tough to back up.  In fact, I have no intention of supporting the following comments about silver:

1.  Buy PHYSICAL silver if you can manage to ($600/oz by 2016);  an alt with a dedicated crowd will benefit, when the members are wealthy, right?  

2.  Become dedicated to supporting the bid side of trading.  If 'we' can't handle 0.004, then it should be 0.002, you know?  Maybe even make this a semi-formal arrangement.  Communicate.  Work together as a team.

3.  With a dedicated community, people can also work to cover necessary exits, like Philogus's this last weekend.  That could have been arranged offline (caution!! use escrow?), or on a low-volume exchange with a big spread, etc., or on a primary exchange at a set time.  This can help to protect the price, but the exchange still gets their volume, which may become an issue, otherwise.

4.  Still - I would love to see UNO traded for silver regularly, but couldn't manage to with the traders that I contacted.  Find merchants.  Facilitate higher transaction rates and public interest.

haha. Tight spread - not for long in uno
Bring on the spread-bots people!
uno at 0.002? Also not for long. Crypto is volatile and the spread could be warranted. I don't mind it.
I will not sell uno for less than what i bought it for in terms of btc-price. So i don't agree but see your point.
The truth is: market is manipulated through cryptsy. Maybe the dumps are fake volume. Cryptsy lets you sell to yourself - no problem.
I see: the sellorders do not move down that means it is oversold. That is a good sign. I will not move my sellorders down only to accomodate others. If the spread is like this why not? Use it to your advantage.
This coin probably wants to be traded at around 0.02 with a tighter spread?
I don't see people selling for less. I see manipulation to surpression coming to an end because of that.
Bukle up, buy the dumps for as long as it takes until the bears are bought out and then let's move the price to a place where it belongs.
I will not sell lower only to close a spread. I will continue to drive up lowball buyorders and hoard this coin hard. Watch litecoin.
Yes, please sell ltc for 5$ and uno for 1$ to me. Thank you. I am taking it.

Spreads are awful, but there just isn't the buy support we need to cover the high asks.  Not a good state to be in.

BTC is getting dumped for precious metals with good reason.  Excellent reason.  Alts are suffering worse, dependent on the BTC/$USD price, because idiots still keep looking at $USD prices to value their alts; the $USD is dying, and the sooner people get this, the sooner alts can be more resiliant to BTC bears and manipulation.  UNO has held up very well compared to many other alts, but I'm pretty damned sure selling of UNO to generate some BTC for RZR this weekend filled the bids, and those bids, usually replaced, weren't.  RZR took the wind out of UNO, (for now).

Well, it's basically a buyer's market.  I'm in it to win it, too.  Buy physical silver, buy BTC's, buy UNO, maybe gold, and maybe even buy RZR? - you'll win in the end, as long as you have patience, and don't actually need to spend that stored wealth right away for expenses.  UNO is a long-termed savings account now more than ever before.

I'm sorry to say this from a compassionate point of view, but I can see UNO around 0.002(-).  IMHO alts should suffer in the next 3-4 months, while physical PM's are where it's at.  On the other hand, whenever I get some extra funds, I will be buying the cheap UNO...and silver...and BTC...and....

-

Still, if we can just build interest in UNO with getting the word out, advertising, etc., and before that get merchants to accept UNO, we can build an alt resistant or independent of the alt crowd's issues.  A stable coin at 0.002, with a tight spread, and plenty of interest will be much easier to "manage" for us significant players, and will be attractive to merchants.   ....And then no vested party, including merchants, will mind when the price gradually rises.  The slower, and steadier the rise the better.  ...A "well-managed" coin is preferred.

Get it?

Agree?

i'm seeing bears clawing us. 

oh well, i'm in this to win or go down with the ship, so i'm not too worries.  Just slowly acquiring more, being careful not to go out of my budget, and trying to think of ways to create more value for Unobtanium. 

I'm going to start giving some away to interesting, tech savvy artists and creatives I am in contact with to get some people who are already peripherally aware of each other to own the same cryptocurrency.  I think we should all maybe start giving a little bit of Un to people who we think should have it in order to spread the network.