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Topic: Unobtanium Guild / UN-EX Discussion - page 2. (Read 2092 times)

sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
June 29, 2015, 05:25:02 AM
#14
Mark: I've had the pleasure of talking with you on the phone many times since 2013. You're one of the most upstanding and honest blokes I know. We're closing things down with grace and going peacefully about our business, as always. No tantrums, insults, threats or drama. (I don't think there's anything to worry about from the other side of the fence anyway - on Reddit, anything that doesn't cop up-votes or new posts will fade into obscurity pretty quickly so there's no real harm in leaving threads open or posts in existence, surely!). Please try to let the unnecessary drama be as water off a duck's back, use the Ignore button if you must, and be happy.

siameze: your disappointment adds to my own. I'm truly sorry things didn't turn out for Cg. It was a grand experiment with big aspirations and I've sunk probably 200+ hours and at least several hundred dollars into building things in the past half year. The past day or two was nothing more than a timely nudge to close a creation that simply failed to get momentum. We've put all of our energy into it but have been stagnating, despite our best efforts. Indeed, the existence of this little thread here rather than being posted on the Guild is one example of why it's being put down in its current form.

We obviously don't quite have all the pieces and/or timing right, and that's okay. There's an exceptional community here that is respectful and open in discussions with each other - obnoxious and bullying behaviour is represented by a small minority - and it'll be my pleasure to stick around and think and build in the near future. It may not be Cryptoguild or Un-Ex in name, but I'm happy to be here Smiley

(Edited a little for clarity: side note, I respected but didn't quite understand your concerns about the new dev - we needed help getting apps built, but the coin and its distribution is well and truly established. As noted in the main thread last week, I don't believe our community would tolerate scam-like behaviour from devs).

legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
June 29, 2015, 05:12:42 AM
#13
This is all another nail in UNO's coffin I think, I very much liked the guild and am surprised you all are going to shutter it. No one bats an eye at dev concerns I raised, and now this. I am glad I relegated myself to an observer, and did not go all in on the project. The little UNO I now have and might acquire in the future will stay in CS and will never be compatible with any future releases.

Welcome to the future of unobtanium. It will be a 3rd-tier shitcoin just like many others. Thanks for proving to me so soon that this community is no different than any other alt community.
IMZ
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
June 29, 2015, 03:14:48 AM
#12
Here's the last 15 hours of posts from Gekko to me on Reddit. He's now posting beyond Reddit Unobtanium:

"Delete the Un-Ex threads as I have instructed, or the UNO 2200 sell wall is on you.

Your "mob" is inside traders in UNO and you are a criminal whack-case. Jail is in your future. Learn the fucking LAW about inside trading.

Have you disclosed your mental problems on BTCtalk? Your refering to yourself in the third person indicates delusions of grandeur. You are mentally ill. People in UNO don't like you as much as you think they do. They are polite, because there is obviously something wrong with your head. They write to me about it.

It's because you inside trade , you dishonest prick.

Or the 33 Bitcoin sell wall goes up tomorrow, and it is your ego's fault. You will destroy uno's upside, you egotistical prick."

IMZ
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
June 28, 2015, 09:25:11 PM
#11
I'll bow out at this point. The discourse here has drifted far from the anthropological ideas that underpinned the experiment. Thanks for your patient post, Gustav.

Mark
IMZ
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
June 28, 2015, 07:17:59 PM
#10
Morning. There is a detail, undisclosed, that will make sense of all this. It may be time to ask cragv to provide it: I didn't ban Gekko. I am not in charge.

A close reading of months and months of Reddit posts, and of my PMs, will reveal that I worked hard to welcome/appease Gekko.

It is entirely untrue that this is some sort of IMZ/Gekko tiff.

Mark



hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
June 28, 2015, 06:08:50 PM
#9
Yeah, tomorrow or today (depending on where one is) is going to be a very interesting day. The ATMs are already out of money!  Tongue

Forget sleep! Overrated! Still pretty calm after lower opening.

But back on topic:
thought about it: if you start with rules there is probably no end to it because if you start setting out rules for one aspect you likely will have to set rules for other aspects too and then rules for what happens when rules aren't followed. Effectively in the end of the day you need a judge and a lawyer. Too much.
Probably the best to go with 'open for all' without looking at character only at reputation for honesty and maybe require some amount of coins to be shown. Better put some escrow and tradelimits for beginners in place for protection of course. People with more coins owned can actually get a slight bonus in reputation for example as it serves their own interest to behave honestly in that environment. (just an idea)

We need to remember: on the one hand the service is publically advertised so then on the other hand one shouldn't tell people who do own bulks of coins (not even those that only hold smaller amounts) to not be able to use said service 'because they are rogue elements' or whatever other crap.
Because if you publically advertise a service that's not really open to the public (only those that aren't perceived  as such 'unliked persons' to the standard of some arbitrary other person) then we get in trouble with butthurt people all over the place which we don't need and which is avoidable. To tell some people "you're in" and others "you're not in" is complete BS and will only create trouble without end as it stirrs emotions with people who are for arbitrary reasons not 'let in'.

If you want to deny access on basis of 'personal feelings' and perception, then you can't advertise it publically because lots of butthurt and mudslings. But doing it not public is also not an option.
So i personally think we're basically stuck with 'let everyone in' and get safeguards like escrow and such into place to protect trading, also a better structure to that reputation system would be good because right now it looks completely arbitrary too (or at least last time i looked).
Some table for what tradereputation is earned when would be also good there. Some transparency and shit, you know? We should get away from anything that mixes trading and personal liking and disliking of participants very quickly as that's no way to work actually. It'll create heaps of trouble with emotions otherwise and probably would sink the whole thing sooner or later.
So i'd suggest: get the safeguards for trading up, write everything down in an introduction for people to read, make the reputation system free of personal like and dislike by making it transparent, applicable, comprehensible and clear cut, well and then let Gekko in of course. Just moderate him if he starts shouting insults at people and all is good. But let that man trade otherwise he's gonna be upset and would actually have a valid reason for it.

Behaviour of people/ character needs to be not subject to anyones' judgement because that will almost always lead to people feeling discriminated and who says the perception of the 'judge' is correct? It can't be correct all the time and likely is never correct. You end up with broke, friendly scammers indoors and upset real holders outdoors possibly. Complete arbitrary BS. It's not an option for a publically advertised thing. Basically you can't say a person can't trade bcause he or she doesn't express themselves in a way that everyone else likes.
Look, if i go on cryptsy trollbox and tell the mod to eat a dick he will ban me from talking in the box but not from trading. That's the thing. If Gekko in this example spouts insults on you, moderate him, but his trading and his character can not go together. That needs seperation for trading without discrimination, with accessibility and to not be arbitrary, really.

So that's my recommendation to clean the thing up a little: Get the personal stuff out of trading, open for all, no rules or low rule besides safeguards for trading and a transparent reputation system. Kicking people from trading should only be possible if they scam or try to scam. Kicking people from talking should be handled completely seperately so that way it should be possible to resolve this issue, no?

Getting human judgement out of the equation especially when it comes to ability to trade will serve us well imo. Human judgement is flawed and emotionally charged and it creates trouble when you have one person telling another person what he or she can and can't do and on top of it money is involved. Make everything quantifyable and free of human judgement and interpretation as much as possible and it'll work sweet imo. (maybe try to bring in good objectivity and transparency -> quantify, write down)
Subjective Face-check at the door has no future, really. It'll only create endless discussions, butthurts and upset people. It's not working.

my 2c

edit: if you want exclusivity, tie it to amounts of coins held or amount of coins traded and not to human perception as that ends in discrimination and emotional dogpoop. (an example for what i mean with 'quantifyable' and  'objective')
If you desire to have VIPs, tie that to coins or tradeactivity or something else that's quantifyable, not human perception, cheers Wink
full member
Activity: 201
Merit: 100
June 28, 2015, 03:24:03 PM
#8
Cool, I'm not very tech savvy. Is that something that sends you the text of the discussions? What is it called?

Just This Open-Source Bot and a python plugin I wrote to track feeds here, on reddit, etc.

My thoughts on UNEX: I enjoyed my time there, it has potential to be a thriving otc marketplace, which is what all true lovers/developers of cryptocurrency should be aiming for. My advice? Base it on a WoT model, one can view all the positive/negative remarks about a trader in that manner and make decisions on their own.



Would you mind sharing that plugin? Been trying to create something to do that myself without much (any!) luck
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
June 28, 2015, 03:09:34 PM
#7
Cool, I'm not very tech savvy. Is that something that sends you the text of the discussions? What is it called?

Just This Open-Source Bot and a python plugin I wrote to track feeds here, on reddit, etc.

My thoughts on UNEX: I enjoyed my time there, it has potential to be a thriving otc marketplace, which is what all true lovers/developers of cryptocurrency should be aiming for. My advice? Base it on a WoT model, one can view all the positive/negative remarks about a trader in that manner and make decisions on their own.

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1001
June 28, 2015, 03:01:57 PM
#6
Yeah, tomorrow or today (depending on where one is) is going to be a very interesting day. The ATMs are already out of money!  Tongue
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
June 28, 2015, 02:58:57 PM
#5
Suggestion1: keep Un-ex completely open and without any rules BUT implement escrow and tardelimits for newcomers
Suggestion2: make clear rules who is allowed and who isn't, what would be a reason to be excluded later and what would happen to the listed offers and so on... if you want rules for a more exclusive club-thing you still need to write them down for people to see (like: "has to own Uno", "needs to have clean track record" and so on)

but in any case try to not arbitrary ex- or include people based on someones personal preference or otherwise we'll probably be running in upset people on the uno thread all the time because if people buy and hold uno and then are in some ways excluded based on personal preferences, that'll backfire pretty sure again and again.

Well, i'm out. Need to get some sleep before western civilisation collapses. Laterz!
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1001
June 28, 2015, 02:58:05 PM
#4
Cool, I'm not very tech savvy. Is that something that sends you the text of the discussions? What is it called?
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
June 28, 2015, 02:52:41 PM
#3
Posting here so my bot will pick it up and I can see replies via chat. Carry on!
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1001
June 28, 2015, 02:48:45 PM
#2
This is a forum to discuss the any questions / concerns about the Guild / UN-EX.

Fire away!
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1001
June 28, 2015, 02:48:00 PM
#1
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