Topic: Unsustainable debt: A libertarian dream (Read 2320 times)
Well, if this forum is truly full of people who thrive on angst and emotion, that would explain a lot.
Heh, Hawker, why is such resentment worth your energy? Do I really have that much say in your happiness? You're stronger than this.
What? Everyone else is allowed to be emo and not me
No fair.
Heh, Hawker, why is such resentment worth your energy? Do I really have that much say in your happiness? You're stronger than this.
I disagree with you based on your premise that there will ever be incentive to lower the debt. Our monetary policy is provided by a private organization that thrives on debt and they own the majority of it: It's called The Federal Reserve. The greater the debt, the larger the amount of the US's wealth they own. They'll happily hold claim over the political collateral that is the US and its citizenry any day over being paid off.
Your dream is a false one. The truth is the greater the debt, the greater our benefactor's power. Little can stop this machine especially the pretentious old men on capitol hill. They were the ones that signed this nation over to The Federal Reserve in the first place.
The only conclusion is the banker's continuing their endless cycle of laundering through their international monetary regime. They continue to dilute our money while they increase theirs (Gold). As they do this, the further we dive into slavery all made possible by worthless paper we consider wealth.
In summary, don't put your faith in puppets.
Your dream is a false one. The truth is the greater the debt, the greater our benefactor's power. Little can stop this machine especially the pretentious old men on capitol hill. They were the ones that signed this nation over to The Federal Reserve in the first place.
The only conclusion is the banker's continuing their endless cycle of laundering through their international monetary regime. They continue to dilute our money while they increase theirs (Gold). As they do this, the further we dive into slavery all made possible by worthless paper we consider wealth.
In summary, don't put your faith in puppets.
Well I agree that lowering the debt is not the goal, but rather growing the economy. And there considerable untapped growth in the black markets.
From the site:
"If the Bank of England has share holders do they get paid dividends, and what was the value of dividends paid in the past five years?'
"If the Bank of England has share holders do they get paid dividends, and what was the value of dividends paid in the past five years?'
And the answer to the question is they don't have shareholderS.
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/foi/disc091106.htm
'Does the Bank of England have shareholders? If the Bank does have shareholders who are they?'
The Bank of England is the central bank of the whole of the UK and was established as a corporate body by Royal Charter under the Bank of England Act 1694. The Bank was nationalised on 1 March 1946, and gained operational independence to set interest rates in 1997. The Bank is a public sector institution wholly-owned by the government...
Please please don't act stupid for the sake of acting stupid. We already know your arguments don't make sense but that is no reason to act like you personally cannot read.
From the site:
"If the Bank of England has share holders do they get paid dividends, and what was the value of dividends paid in the past five years?'
"If the Bank of England has share holders do they get paid dividends, and what was the value of dividends paid in the past five years?'
I will admit the treasury gets 25% dividends but that is only true if the back fully discloses its income. The Federal Reserve gave over $16 trillion in secret loans that remained unreported for quite awhile. Central banks tend not to be held accountable for these sorts of things.
The Bank of England is transparent. The state is the ONLY shareholder. All its actions are public with a 30 or 90 day delay. Oddly, its not accountable. Currently they are flagrantly in breach of their charter but getting away with it because the government has bought into its Krugman-type analysis of the inflation rate.
I will admit the treasury gets 25% dividends but that is only true if the back fully discloses its income. The Federal Reserve gave over $16 trillion in secret loans that remained unreported for quite awhile. Central banks tend not to be held accountable for these sorts of things.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/10/total%20debt%20to%20gdp.jpg
The US Germany and Canada are all considered OK. Notice that the German government debt is bigger than the US one.
The UK is also considered OK as it controls its own currency. Likewise Japan.
Spain, France and Italy are screwed.
The US Germany and Canada are all considered OK. Notice that the German government debt is bigger than the US one.
The UK is also considered OK as it controls its own currency. Likewise Japan.
Spain, France and Italy are screwed.
All according to plan. The EU will happily consolidate Spain, France and Italy into the globalist monetary regime; further centralization, if you will. This will allow for greater control.
Japan has a private and independent central bank. The Bank of England is also independent of government authority and has private shareholders as well. These country's governments do not control their money supply.
The Bank of England is a government body. http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/foi/disc091106.htm No private shareholders.
So on your logic the British Government does control its money supply. As it happens, you are wrong in that the BoE was made independent 14 years ago but its been 100% state owned for 70 years or so.
It's a government body in the same sense registered corporations are government bodies. The state is not a major shareholder; ergo, it doesn't own its own debt.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/10/total%20debt%20to%20gdp.jpg
The US Germany and Canada are all considered OK. Notice that the German government debt is bigger than the US one.
The UK is also considered OK as it controls its own currency. Likewise Japan.
Spain, France and Italy are screwed.
The US Germany and Canada are all considered OK. Notice that the German government debt is bigger than the US one.
The UK is also considered OK as it controls its own currency. Likewise Japan.
Spain, France and Italy are screwed.
All according to plan. The EU will happily consolidate Spain, France and Italy into the globalist monetary regime; further centralization, if you will. This will allow for greater control.
Japan has a private and independent central bank. The Bank of England is also independent of government authority and has private shareholders as well. These country's governments do not control their money supply.
The Bank of England is a government body. http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/foi/disc091106.htm No private shareholders.
So on your logic the British Government does control its money supply. As it happens, you are wrong in that the BoE was made independent 14 years ago but its been 100% state owned for 70 years or so.
Italy debt is mostly to themselves, so if they do get screwed, they would mainly be crewing themselves and their own pensions/retirements? Considering Italian family-oriented culture, though, I'm not too concerned about anyone starving in the streets.
Banca d'Italia is a private institution with private shareholders. So, no, they are not indebted to themselves but to a sovereign organization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banca_d%27Italia
Hmm, I stand corrected http://www.concertedaction.com/2011/11/11/holders-of-italys-public-debt-and-government-securities/
Interesting. Italy might actually be sovereign. : O
Thank you.
Italy debt is mostly to themselves, so if they do get screwed, they would mainly be crewing themselves and their own pensions/retirements? Considering Italian family-oriented culture, though, I'm not too concerned about anyone starving in the streets.
Banca d'Italia is a private institution with private shareholders. So, no, they are not indebted to themselves but to a sovereign organization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banca_d%27Italia
Hmm, I stand corrected http://www.concertedaction.com/2011/11/11/holders-of-italys-public-debt-and-government-securities/
Italy debt is mostly to themselves, so if they do get screwed, they would mainly be crewing themselves and their own pensions/retirements? Considering Italian family-oriented culture, though, I'm not too concerned about anyone starving in the streets.
Banca d'Italia is a private institution with private shareholders. So, no, they are not indebted to themselves but to a sovereign organization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banca_d%27Italia
Italy debt is mostly to themselves, so if they do get screwed, they would mainly be crewing themselves and their own pensions/retirements? Considering Italian family-oriented culture, though, I'm not too concerned about anyone starving in the streets.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/10/total%20debt%20to%20gdp.jpg
The US Germany and Canada are all considered OK. Notice that the German government debt is bigger than the US one.
The UK is also considered OK as it controls its own currency. Likewise Japan.
Spain, France and Italy are screwed.
The US Germany and Canada are all considered OK. Notice that the German government debt is bigger than the US one.
The UK is also considered OK as it controls its own currency. Likewise Japan.
Spain, France and Italy are screwed.
All according to plan. The EU will happily consolidate Spain, France and Italy into the globalist monetary regime; further centralization, if you will. This will allow for greater control.
Japan has a private and independent central bank. The Bank of England is also independent of government authority and has private shareholders as well. These country's governments do not control their money supply.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/10/total%20debt%20to%20gdp.jpg
The US Germany and Canada are all considered OK. Notice that the German government debt is bigger than the US one.
The UK is also considered OK as it controls its own currency. Likewise Japan.
Spain, France and Italy are screwed.
The US Germany and Canada are all considered OK. Notice that the German government debt is bigger than the US one.
The UK is also considered OK as it controls its own currency. Likewise Japan.
Spain, France and Italy are screwed.
The. Debt. Is. Not. Going. Away. The people in power will succumb to the whims of the bankers far sooner than they would respond to the mere vocal whims of the people.
If the people truly want it to, there will be revolution by force; I certainly prefer this.
Our foreign debt is pennies compared to what we owe to The Fed and The Central Banks. If anything, it's just a distraction.
If the people truly want it to, there will be revolution by force; I certainly prefer this.
Our foreign debt is pennies compared to what we owe to The Fed and The Central Banks. If anything, it's just a distraction.
The Federal Reserve is not ourselves. It is a powerful organization that is not under our jurisdiction.
The Fed didn't put a gun to the American people's head and force us to spend money we don't have. I would gadly see the Fed gone but Americans (yes that means ever single American including myself) need to take some collective responsibility.
WE spent $15T we never had. Period.
That won't happen until Americans can feel the debt impacting them directly. If every bit of new spending, be it war or stimulus, required a mandatory tax increase on EVERYONE to cover the difference we wouldn't be in this mess. But since we're throwing around money we borrowed from China and elsewhere, and didn't sacrafice anything ourselves to get it, no one cares, really.
Maybe if US defaulted on domestic debt only, crewing up everyone's treasury and bond holding they have either in plain investments or in retirement accounts, people would sit up and take notice. But I doubt that would happen, since naturally we would first screw the outsiders before screwing ourselves.
The Federal Reserve is not ourselves. It is a powerful organization that is not under our jurisdiction.
The Fed didn't put a gun to the American people's head and force us to spend money we don't have.
We are not our representative's constituents; they are.
The Federal Reserve is not ourselves. It is a powerful organization that is not under our jurisdiction.
The Fed didn't put a gun to the American people's head and force us to spend money we don't have. I would gadly see the Fed gone but Americans (yes that means ever single American including myself) need to take some collective responsibility.
WE spent $15T we never had. Period.
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