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ranochigo

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Quote from: Amph on November 01, 2015, 12:27:06 PM

Quote from: Lucas* on November 01, 2015, 10:50:44 AM

Quote from: DannyHamilton on November 01, 2015, 10:38:46 AM

Quote from: Blue_Tiger73 on October 31, 2015, 07:29:07 PM

The max number of bitcoin is 21,000,000

No. This isn't true. The maximum number will never be more than 21,000,000 (which is an easy number to say and remember so it is often used with the "never more than" description), but it will never be 21,000,000 either. The maximum number is less than 20999864.7679.

if we count the coins lost forever the real maximum number is way less than this..

well that is the maximum available number no matter, what unless one day consensus decide to increase it(i hope never)

for the coins that are lost, there can always be chances in the future to retrieve them, they are not 100%, if new tech are discovered...

A hard fork can be done to recover all the lost coins but there isn't a way to prove that they are truly lost. It would also somehow equate to stealing those coins. Adding a decimal place if needed would be much better but I feel that there isn't a need anytime soon.

Amph

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Quote from: Lucas* on November 01, 2015, 10:50:44 AM

Quote from: DannyHamilton on November 01, 2015, 10:38:46 AM

Quote from: Blue_Tiger73 on October 31, 2015, 07:29:07 PM

The max number of bitcoin is 21,000,000

No. This isn't true. The maximum number will never be more than 21,000,000 (which is an easy number to say and remember so it is often used with the "never more than" description), but it will never be 21,000,000 either. The maximum number is less than 20999864.7679.

if we count the coins lost forever the real maximum number is way less than this..

well that is the maximum available number no matter, what unless one day consensus decide to increase it(i hope never)

for the coins that are lost, there can always be chances in the future to retrieve them, they are not 100%, if new tech are discovered...

Lucas*

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Quote from: DannyHamilton on November 01, 2015, 10:38:46 AM

Quote from: Blue_Tiger73 on October 31, 2015, 07:29:07 PM

The max number of bitcoin is 21,000,000

No. This isn't true. The maximum number will never be more than 21,000,000 (which is an easy number to say and remember so it is often used with the "never more than" description), but it will never be 21,000,000 either. The maximum number is less than 20999864.7679.

if we count the coins lost forever the real maximum number is way less than this..

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: Blue_Tiger73 on October 31, 2015, 07:29:07 PM

The max number of bitcoin is 21,000,000

No. This isn't true. The maximum number will never be more than 21,000,000 (which is an easy number to say and remember so it is often used with the "never more than" description), but it will never be 21,000,000 either. The maximum number is less than 20999864.7679.

Quote from: Blue_Tiger73 on October 31, 2015, 07:29:07 PM

so the amount of transactions will pretty much slow down after it reaches that point.

The amount of transactions might speed up, or it might slow down. There really isn't any way to know.

Quote from: Blue_Tiger73 on October 31, 2015, 07:29:07 PM

The computing power will also get better in the future, so the blocks will be processed even faster.

Nope. Faster computing power does NOT result in faster blocks. The average time between blocks will remain at 10 minutes regardless of how fast computing power gets.

Quote from: Blue_Tiger73 on October 31, 2015, 07:29:07 PM

And the storage, bitcoin is real money, real money is kept in a bank.

Not always. I have U.S. dollars in my pocket. I also have some in my dresser drawer. I have a few in my car. My wife has some in her purse. None of these are banks.

Quote from: Blue_Tiger73 on October 31, 2015, 07:29:07 PM

What happens when a bank runs out of storage, they make more storage, and thats what bitcoin will do.

I'm not sure that your analogy makes sense, but I'm impressed by your ability to get so many things wrong in a single post.

ranochigo

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Quote from: Blue_Tiger73 on October 31, 2015, 07:29:07 PM

The max number of bitcoin is 21,000,000, so the amount of transactions will pretty much slow down after it reaches that point. The computing power will also get better in the future, so the blocks will be processed even faster. And the storage, bitcoin is real money, real money is kept in a bank. What happens when a bank runs out of storage, they make more storage, and thats what bitcoin will do.

Uh.. You have understood Bitcoin incorrectly. The reward would actually be quite small after the next few halvings, not when it completely stops. Transaction can still go on depending on the adoption rates. Even with huge portion of the coins getting lost, we can still divide Bitcoin beyond satoshis and it wouldn't be a problem.

No matter how fast the computing power can be, the blocks will never be faster in extended period of times. It would be faster between difficulty change if the processing power increases between it. For blocks to be faster, a hard fork is required.

Blue_Tiger73

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The max number of bitcoin is 21,000,000, so the amount of transactions will pretty much slow down after it reaches that point. The computing power will also get better in the future, so the blocks will be processed even faster. And the storage, bitcoin is real money, real money is kept in a bank. What happens when a bank runs out of storage, they make more storage, and thats what bitcoin will do.

AdopterOfCoin

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Quote from: SebastianJu on October 31, 2015, 03:06:02 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Thank you all for the answer.

Reading a lot of posts of famous media or some blog the alert everytime on:

- BTC cause to much pollution and energy usage (more than actual FIAT, bank, system)

Well, it is way less than the fiat or banking system. But still, bitcoin has it's problems.

For example, the current hashpower is 100 times higher than needed. 1% of that hashpower would be enough to hold the bitcoin network secure. So there is no reason for the "fee market" the 1MB block fans propagate. Miners need to trim down their miners. It happened all the time. Nobody mines bitcoin with GPU or CPU anymore now. Those miners were switched off. So when the reward is way way lower then bitcoin will still survive even with many miners switching off their miners.

And this hugely overloaded system has another problem. A study, some months ago, showed that ONE bitcoin transaction needs so much power like 1.75 average US-households use in electricity per day. ONE transaction. If the transactions has more than one input and 2 outputs then this power consumption grows even.

So at the moment bitcoin surely is not environmental friendly because the reward for miners is too high.

Next year, we will have halving. So it will be more environmental friendly.

Wait a moment, if the bitcoin price rise by 4 times, it will be even less environmental friendly.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Thank you all for the answer.

Reading a lot of posts of famous media or some blog the alert everytime on:

- BTC cause to much pollution and energy usage (more than actual FIAT, bank, system)

Well, it is way less than the fiat or banking system. But still, bitcoin has it's problems.

For example, the current hashpower is 100 times higher than needed. 1% of that hashpower would be enough to hold the bitcoin network secure. So there is no reason for the "fee market" the 1MB block fans propagate. Miners need to trim down their miners. It happened all the time. Nobody mines bitcoin with GPU or CPU anymore now. Those miners were switched off. So when the reward is way way lower then bitcoin will still survive even with many miners switching off their miners.

And this hugely overloaded system has another problem. A study, some months ago, showed that ONE bitcoin transaction needs so much power like 1.75 average US-households use in electricity per day. ONE transaction. If the transactions has more than one input and 2 outputs then this power consumption grows even.

So at the moment bitcoin surely is not environmental friendly because the reward for miners is too high.

dothebeats

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Cashback 15%

Quote from: ?? on ??

So what is the target of various media and blog for sat BTC is a failure? Whad do them earn from this? Are them just not good informed or they have some "dark" interest? Do them are scared by loose their "power" gained with have a lot of milion in euro?

The media doesn't even care about bitcoins but rather the views they will get from their articles that will make them money. Blogs also have the same goal: get traffic and take profit (though some of them I find really informative).

SebastianJu

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Quote from: kaselit on October 28, 2015, 07:19:03 AM

Hi, as perfect cryptocoins newbie, i am wondering about the future of the BTC if:

- the weight of block-chain that can reach and go over 1TB (it start to become to big for a lot of users)
- the computing power required to confirm every more and more transaction (not for all again)
- the probability that the check system could go all to less companies that can substain power and storage
- the probability that anyone can generate a private key from my public key
- the probability that anyone generate a bruteforce attack generating a lot of keys (public,private) and steal bitcoin

Thank you

Then think about what will happen if we have 200% more transactions regularly. It would mean that constantly 33% of all legit transactions will never get a confirmation. Can you imagine how useless bitcoin would be then?

And it doesn't matter if someone tries to host a full node on his smartphone or C64, we simply can't trim bitcoin down so much that it renders practically useless.

Don't you think?

And don't believe all the fear against bigger blocks. The people spreading it have their own project in the makings. The lightning network. The worse bitcoin works the more people will use their altcoin, they hope. Which would translate into income for them.

Amph

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Quote from: ?? on ??

So what is the target of various media and blog for sat BTC is a failure? Whad do them earn from this? Are them just not good informed or they have some "dark" interest? Do them are scared by loose their "power" gained with have a lot of milion in euro?

it's just how the rumor, spread you need one hater that wrote a crap on the internet, and this spread like a plug

then you have major institutions that trust these rumors without thinking, because they hate bitcoin also, there is also a lose, for bank and big circuit, in fees, if bitcoin would be used by their "customers"

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Thank you all for the answer.

Reading a lot of posts of famous media or some blog the alert everytime on:

- BTC cause to much pollution and energy usage (more than actual FIAT, bank, system)

That is not true. They can say it all they want, but saying it doesn't make it true.

Quote from: ?? on ??

- BTC can be cracked

There is no evidence that ECDSA signatures are vulnerable to anything other than poor implementation. As long a you don't use faulty software, you'll be fine.

Quote from: ?? on ??

- BTC need to much storage data

Then run a SPV wallet, or use a service such as Coinbase.

Quote from: ?? on ??

- BTC is not based on a real "value"

Of course it is. That's a silly thing to say.

Mickeyb

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Move On !!!!!!

Quote from: ?? on ??

Thank you all for the answer.

Reading a lot of posts of famous media or some blog the alert everytime on:

- BTC cause to much pollution and energy usage (more than actual FIAT, bank, system)
- BTC can be cracked
- BTC need to much storage data
- BTC is not based on a real "value"

How u could answer to that so?

I wouldn't be taking those media experts and certain blog experts too seriously. I mean you have raised very valid questions but don't believe everything that they say under no circumstances.

Maybe 10% of them really have a clue what they are talking about. Maybe 5% of them really half understands Bitcoin!

ranochigo

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Quote from: AdopterOfCoin on October 28, 2015, 09:14:11 AM

Quote from: franky1 on October 28, 2015, 08:11:55 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

"There were about 370,000 nodes in past, but now it's only about 5000 nodes because blockchain is big
In future, i think there'll less nodes, but all of them are very powerful"

Is not a problem that the verify of transaction go in the hands of a "few" of person?

theres more then 5000 nodes.
that bitnodes site that meant to list the 5000, misses out sooooo many nodes.. i know of 10 people that have full nodes running and none of their IP's show up.

even if 1 out of 10 people i know was actually listed.. then thats roughly a 10% visability. meaning there would be potentially 50,000 nodes.
but because none of the 10 show up. i think the odds of visability are much lower.. so lets say it was 1%.. it would make the potential nodes 500,000.

short story
dont beleive all statistics, some key data may be missing

I have one PC with bitcoin qt one all the time. It is a home computer with no fixed IP address. Does it still contribute to the community?

It would contribute to the network if you port forwarded port 8333. However, since it is a dynamic IP, nodes would disconnect everytime you change the IP hence it would be a slight hassle. But you are still relaying blocks and TX.

AdopterOfCoin

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Quote from: franky1 on October 28, 2015, 08:11:55 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

"There were about 370,000 nodes in past, but now it's only about 5000 nodes because blockchain is big
In future, i think there'll less nodes, but all of them are very powerful"

Is not a problem that the verify of transaction go in the hands of a "few" of person?

theres more then 5000 nodes.
that bitnodes site that meant to list the 5000, misses out sooooo many nodes.. i know of 10 people that have full nodes running and none of their IP's show up.

even if 1 out of 10 people i know was actually listed.. then thats roughly a 10% visability. meaning there would be potentially 50,000 nodes.
but because none of the 10 show up. i think the odds of visability are much lower.. so lets say it was 1%.. it would make the potential nodes 500,000.

short story
dont beleive all statistics, some key data may be missing

I have one PC with bitcoin qt one all the time. It is a home computer with no fixed IP address. Does it still contribute to the community?

Kprawn

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Most of your questions would be answered with this video --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZloHVKk7DHk {The amazing math of private keys} You would have no doubts

after watching these video's https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgo7FCCPuylVk4luP3JAgVw ...Hope you enjoy.

Please come back here and confirm if you found your answers.. and if we could assist you in anything else. James D'Angelo have mastered the art of explaining difficult concepts.

ranochigo

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Quote from: ?? on ??

"There were about 370,000 nodes in past, but now it's only about 5000 nodes because blockchain is big
In future, i think there'll less nodes, but all of them are very powerful"

Is not a problem that the verify of transaction go in the hands of a "few" of person?

There wasn't actually that much node. It was a bug with the crawler and Bitcoin wasn't even that popular at that time.

Quote from: disclosure on June 18, 2015, 05:11:12 PM

The early December 2013 network snapshots, i.e. with over 100k nodes, are not valid as the crawler at that time took several hours just to complete one full network snapshot and it includes all nodes from addr responses which can be faked or likely stale. Those snapshots were linked to from getaddr.bitnodes.io/SNAPSHOT_NUMBER/ which have been removed since.

With the new crawler released in late Dec 2013, the crawl time was brought down significantly down to sub 5 minutes with considerably good churn rate. I use the churn rate to measure how good a network snapshot is. A value of 0 implies the network snapshot was taken instantly but of course that's not possible. At the moment, we are seeing a typical churn rate of 30+: https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/

Bitcoin does need more geographically distributed and stable node. Powerful nodes isn't a must. In the future, Block pruning would still allow the relay of TX which eliminates the problem of verifying transactions but it won't relay blocks. From what I understand, this would be a problem for SPV clients and they would rely on trusting miners even more.

Quote from: Next BillGates on October 28, 2015, 08:18:20 AM

Quote from: franky1 on October 28, 2015, 08:07:38 AM

thats an april fools joke.

the fool made like 1 page of valid addresses and then the other hundreds of pages are keys that are random and dont match.. in short it was a joke to scare people, and it looks like you fell for it

I didn't fell without a reason! somone had found some cents on directory.io Proof? https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12544561

I would still consider it as a joke. That is merely several cents and it could just be placed there by people who want to troll.

Next BillGates

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Quote from: franky1 on October 28, 2015, 08:07:38 AM

thats an april fools joke.

the fool made like 1 page of valid addresses and then the other hundreds of pages are keys that are random and dont match.. in short it was a joke to scare people, and it looks like you fell for it

I didn't fell without a reason! somone had found some cents on directory.io Proof? https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12544561

Quote from: Q7 on October 28, 2015, 08:12:42 AM

Quote from: Next BillGates on October 28, 2015, 08:04:57 AM

Quote from: kaselit on October 28, 2015, 07:19:03 AM

- the probability that anyone generate a bruteforce attack generating a lot of keys (public,private) and steal bitcoin

Thank you

All bitcoin private keys were already exposed here www.directory.io , www.buttcoins.com . Unfortunately, No one can find a bitcoin address with balance. Because of probability & maths.

Even though all the keys are valid but in no way these are indexed and kept in a library. Imagine the computing space and size just to keep and maintain the list. The pages with all the keys are generated on the go which means that whatever random page number that you enter, these will be instantly generated based on mathematically calculation. Trust me, your private keys are safe and in no way somebody is going to find it.

I agree with you, but if someone have luck, he will found at least some bucks.

brg444

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: franky1 on October 28, 2015, 08:11:55 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

"There were about 370,000 nodes in past, but now it's only about 5000 nodes because blockchain is big
In future, i think there'll less nodes, but all of them are very powerful"

Is not a problem that the verify of transaction go in the hands of a "few" of person?

theres more then 5000 nodes.
that bitnodes site that meant to list the 5000, misses out sooooo many nodes.. i know of 10 people that have full nodes running and none of their IP's show up.

even if 1 out of 10 people i know was actually listed.. then thats roughly a 10% visability. meaning there would be potentially 50,000 nodes.
but because none of the 10 show up. i think the odds of visability are much lower.. so lets say it was 1%.. it would make the potential nodes 500,000.

short story
dont beleive all statistics, some key data may be missing

That's absolutely ridiculous. There probably isn't more than 1000 quality full nodes out there.

I'm not talking about the stuff that's run from VPS & other hosting solutions which probably accounts for a majority of the nodes you see on bitnodes.

Q7

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Activity: 448

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Quote from: Next BillGates on October 28, 2015, 08:04:57 AM

Quote from: kaselit on October 28, 2015, 07:19:03 AM

- the probability that anyone generate a bruteforce attack generating a lot of keys (public,private) and steal bitcoin

Thank you

All bitcoin private keys were already exposed here www.directory.io , www.buttcoins.com . Unfortunately, No one can find a bitcoin address with balance. Because of probability & maths.

Even though all the keys are valid but in no way these are indexed and kept in a library. Imagine the computing space and size just to keep and maintain the list. The pages with all the keys are generated on the go which means that whatever random page number that you enter, these will be instantly generated based on mathematically calculation. Trust me, your private keys are safe and in no way somebody is going to find it.

Topic: UPDATE (Read 1699 times)