US charges two Russian crypto hackers - page 2.

malevolent

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Quote from: Kemarit on October 01, 2020, 07:35:49 AM

not that easy though as it might involved a lot of politics between US and Russia, but eventually he was extradited and sentence to 7 years behind bars.

Ties with USA due to being an EU and NATO member are more important so the legal battle amounted to taking advantage of the rights he had as a detainee in Czechia. Prague is still infamous for being a hive of Russian spies but their golden years are over.

Kemarit

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And this is one example on how US, with their long arms, can catch the hackers, if these two Russian tend to relax their guards, Russian Who Hacked LinkedIn, Dropbox Sentenced to 7 Years in Prison.

Quote

Nikulin was arrested in Prague on October 5, 2016, by Interpol agents working in collaboration with the FBI, and extradited to the United States in March 2018 after a long extradition battle between the U.S. and Russia.

So he was vacationing and thought that he is safe in Europe and beyond US, but with Interpol's help, he was caught extradited to US, not that easy though as it might involved a lot of politics between US and Russia, but eventually he was extradited and sentence to 7 years behind bars.

zasad@

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Quote from: malevolent on September 29, 2020, 12:38:46 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on September 22, 2020, 06:10:43 AM

You are absolutely right, Russia does not extradite its citizens to other states.
But if in Russia the special services find out that these people have money, then they will very simply be taken away.
If this is revenge on hackers from the American intelligence services, then it looks interesting, or is it an admission that Americans cannot do anything

If FSB or a similar agency takes it all away that alone may disincentivize many a thief.

In the past Russian hackers (or Ukrainian when Ukraine was still Russia-aligned) have managed to get themselves arrested due to their overconfidence, falsely believing certain places won't cooperate with US authorities or extradite them therein. The list of countries they can travel safely to is now very limited, that in itself is a punishment.

A couple of years ago I watched an interview of carders on a YouTube channel. The most interesting thing is that they were without masks, called their names and said that they did not violate the laws of the Russian Federation

That is, they do not steal from the Russian people.
They were asked many questions about going abroad. They said that they had recently vacationed in Turkey and Europe.
In Russia, the law is strict on those who have no money

malevolent

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Social engineering is also hacking, but hacking people, no exceptional coding skills required. Given how often it happens one would think people would learn but alas no, new waves of naive keep coming.

stompix

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Why is everyone using the word "hacker" for every scammer that manages to steal something on the internet, really the word hacker has lost all its meaning in the last years.

Quote from: DaveF on September 22, 2020, 06:20:40 AM

There is also the possibility that they were too cheap / greedy to do it properly.
By going through multiple exchanges / mixers it would be almost impossible to trace.

Their biggest mistake is that at the end of the chain the had a real account with the real name and I find this pretty stupid, I don't understand why in the end they felt the need to amas their funds into one account, risk being exposed and end with the funds seized rather than trying to convert their coins at a slower pace through p2p deals or ATMs or anything else.

Botnake

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That's a good news, it means the crypto regulation has been strengthen already.

Existence of hackers and scammers, this is what would make the regulators do their job because they need to capture this criminal to build a healthy crypto environment, with this rampant kind of crime if this is the right way to describe it, regulators will certainly impose more strict measures to the market and though it will increase the security, but our privacy might be sacrifice, we have to choose but bear in mind that regulators or government always win.

malevolent

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Quote from: zasad@ on September 22, 2020, 06:10:43 AM

You are absolutely right, Russia does not extradite its citizens to other states.
But if in Russia the special services find out that these people have money, then they will very simply be taken away.
If this is revenge on hackers from the American intelligence services, then it looks interesting, or is it an admission that Americans cannot do anything

If FSB or a similar agency takes it all away that alone may disincentivize many a thief.

In the past Russian hackers (or Ukrainian when Ukraine was still Russia-aligned) have managed to get themselves arrested due to their overconfidence, falsely believing certain places won't cooperate with US authorities or extradite them therein. The list of countries they can travel safely to is now very limited, that in itself is a punishment.

Lorence.xD

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Quote from: philipma1957 on September 17, 2020, 10:17:56 PM

If i were a major government I would have at least Two mixers under my control.

It is so easy to do for them. Run it legit until someone moves a lot of “bad” coins and seize them for auction.

I second this idea, having a state owned mixer makes sure that there is less shit going under your nose. The problem with these though is it will act as a prohibition for the consumers, this in turn will inspire competition that are less regulated and doesn't have a connection to authorities which makes it a big signal for terrorist sponsors and money launderers to give this illegal mixers. I would suggest that all registered mixers that wants to operate in the country should have cooperate with the authorities in the case that something ilegal might be happening in the mixer.

Kemarit

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Quote from: DaveF on September 22, 2020, 06:20:40 AM

Quote from: mk4 on September 17, 2020, 12:15:19 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on September 16, 2020, 09:22:31 PM

I would say that these hackers didn't take care of their footprints and that's why the US government was able to follow their tracks and identify them through their names.

Most definitely the case. It's mind boggling how some people have the skills to hack accounts, but not enough knowledge to actually effectively CoinJoin and/or mix the coins. Thankfully it seems like they're incompetent in the privacy side of things though.

There is also the possibility that they were too cheap / greedy to do it properly.
By going through multiple exchanges / mixers it would be almost impossible to trace.
But you wind up with trading fees / possible trading losses / withdrawal fees / etc.
Could be a big percentage.

And a lot of exchanges have KYC over a certain amount per day so there is time and effort involved doing it multiple times.

-Dave

Probably the later though, well it's free money for them, so I don't think that they will look at the price, transaction fees etc. That's why the are careless here, allowing to left a footprint because they think they have made the jackpot. So they become more greedy.

They also did the first half, then forget everything, and after years of investigation, US made a breakthrough, finding their names of exchanges and that is the start of their downfall.

DaveF

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Quote from: mk4 on September 17, 2020, 12:15:19 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on September 16, 2020, 09:22:31 PM

I would say that these hackers didn't take care of their footprints and that's why the US government was able to follow their tracks and identify them through their names.

Most definitely the case. It's mind boggling how some people have the skills to hack accounts, but not enough knowledge to actually effectively CoinJoin and/or mix the coins. Thankfully it seems like they're incompetent in the privacy side of things though.

There is also the possibility that they were too cheap / greedy to do it properly.
By going through multiple exchanges / mixers it would be almost impossible to trace.
But you wind up with trading fees / possible trading losses / withdrawal fees / etc.
Could be a big percentage.

And a lot of exchanges have KYC over a certain amount per day so there is time and effort involved doing it multiple times.

-Dave

zasad@

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Quote from: btc_angela on September 21, 2020, 05:21:02 PM

Not that far from happening as US intelligence has a broader arm specially in EU (if those criminals chooses to travel there). I know the Russian government will simply allow their people to be extradited to the US to face any charges, but what if the Russians themselves arrest the two of them and somewhat for them to 'cough the money off'?

You are absolutely right, Russia does not extradite its citizens to other states.
But if in Russia the special services find out that these people have money, then they will very simply be taken away.
If this is revenge on hackers from the American intelligence services, then it looks interesting, or is it an admission that Americans cannot do anything

TravelMug

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 16, 2020, 09:22:31 PM

I would say that these hackers didn't take care of their footprints and that's why the US government was able to follow their tracks and identify them through their names.

Obviously, this is the case because they've been identified and been name.

Quote from: Kemarit on September 16, 2020, 09:22:31 PM

So I agree that it's only one part of the equation, and that's why perhaps government are offering a $625,000 now on someone who can break Monero because most likely hackers are going to used it instead of Bitcoin and US government wanted to stay on top of the game. And because Bitcoin are no longer viable crypto for these criminals as they are easily been identified by blockchain analysis.

It doesn't matter though, in my opinion, bitcoin will still be the prefer crypto that they are going to use. US government can only stay on the top for a brief moment though because criminals are always two to three steps ahead, and the moment you identify them, they might be sitting on a country wherein there is no extradition treaty and using the money for their lavish lifestyle. Not unless the US government really wanted them for other bigger crimes, then they might go after them. But it is difficult if it is a Russian though, there could be some consequences.

btc_angela

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Quote from: zasad@ on September 21, 2020, 10:47:16 AM

Quote from: Lucius on September 21, 2020, 05:11:20 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on September 20, 2020, 04:04:21 PM

I only do not understand 1 thing, why make the names public?

It is not so easy to kidnap citizens of another country and then legally convict them and put them in prison without causing serious political consequences. Especially when it comes to two countries like the US and Russia, and it is about a some ridiculous amount $16.8 million. Public announcement of such news is mostly aimed at preventing and discouraging the commission of similar acts in the future, because it tells hackers "maybe you can steal something, but we will do our best to take it away from you".

Of course, the public announcement of their names means that they are prevented from traveling anywhere outside Russia, unless they want to risk arrest and extradition to the US.

I don’t want to be wrong, but for a Russian hacker, this is something like fame or merit.
I don't think that this will scare anyone, because in Russia it is very easy to make new documents, usually for this they use data from real people who never travel abroad.
Or maybe everything is completely different, that hackers used documents of strangers. I have met many times when organizations do not properly conduct KYC procedures.

I would agree that there is fame connected to it, specially if it comes from US government. Yes, it might not prevent other personalities or groups to continue to do their hacking activity, create documents and new identification and they can travel abroad, but there are still that risk though. And maybe when you let your guards down, and when you least expected, suddenly US swoop in get into your hotel room and capture you.

Not that far from happening as US intelligence has a broader arm specially in EU (if those criminals chooses to travel there). I know the Russian government will simply allow their people to be extradited to the US to face any charges, but what if the Russians themselves arrest the two of them and somewhat for them to 'cough the money off'?

zasad@

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Quote from: Lucius on September 21, 2020, 05:11:20 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on September 20, 2020, 04:04:21 PM

I only do not understand 1 thing, why make the names public?

It is not so easy to kidnap citizens of another country and then legally convict them and put them in prison without causing serious political consequences. Especially when it comes to two countries like the US and Russia, and it is about a some ridiculous amount $16.8 million. Public announcement of such news is mostly aimed at preventing and discouraging the commission of similar acts in the future, because it tells hackers "maybe you can steal something, but we will do our best to take it away from you".

Of course, the public announcement of their names means that they are prevented from traveling anywhere outside Russia, unless they want to risk arrest and extradition to the US.

I don’t want to be wrong, but for a Russian hacker, this is something like fame or merit.
I don't think that this will scare anyone, because in Russia it is very easy to make new documents, usually for this they use data from real people who never travel abroad.
Or maybe everything is completely different, that hackers used documents of strangers. I have met many times when organizations do not properly conduct KYC procedures.

Lucius

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Quote from: zasad@ on September 20, 2020, 04:04:21 PM

I only do not understand 1 thing, why make the names public?

It is not so easy to kidnap citizens of another country and then legally convict them and put them in prison without causing serious political consequences. Especially when it comes to two countries like the US and Russia, and it is about a some ridiculous amount $16.8 million. Public announcement of such news is mostly aimed at preventing and discouraging the commission of similar acts in the future, because it tells hackers "maybe you can steal something, but we will do our best to take it away from you".

Of course, the public announcement of their names means that they are prevented from traveling anywhere outside Russia, unless they want to risk arrest and extradition to the US.

zasad@

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I only do not understand 1 thing, why make the names public? The American intelligence services have many opportunities to track these people down, detain them abroad, transfer them to the United States and charge them with a crime.
They can seize stolen coins without publishing personalities.
I may be wrong, but this data release seems to be politically motivated.

Lucius

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Quote from: https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm1123

Karasavidi laundered the proceeds of the attacks into an account in his name. He attempted to conceal the nature and source of the funds by transferring them in a layered and sophisticated manner through multiple accounts and multiple virtual currency blockchains. Ultimately, the stolen virtual currency was traced to Karasavidi’s account, and millions of dollars in virtual currency and U.S. dollars was seized in a forfeiture action by the United States Secret Service.

This part of the article explains very clearly how these two hackers were discovered, and it shows enough how intelligent they really are - they are actually very stupid if they thought they would not be caught. If you put so much effort into masking the whole operation and blurring the trail, then in the end you don't use your name - because if you get almost $17 million in your account, no special blockchain analysis is required to raise a red flag on such an account.

Fools like this get caught sooner or later, but how many do you think will never get caught?

dhemasm

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on September 20, 2020, 05:15:45 AM

I do agree, but it's also good coming from the US government to really send this kind of message, not just for the Russians hackers, but the Chinese or even Iranian. They could be persecuted in absentia, and could b found guilty. So the ball now goes to those cyber threat personalities, their world started to become small as they can't travel outside of Russia now, otherwise they will be caught.

Yeah giving messages is good but of course action is needed even though I find it difficult, Like some of the previous messages Some countries have different jurisdictions. And maybe the country (Which is opposite and has a and balance power with the State like China, Russia, Iran) would prefer hiring them as agents (I suppose?) Rather than extradition a "Talented" Person.

Also I think if I become a hacker who stole and have more than $ 1 Million in my wallet, staying in my country and enjoying life is enough rather than traveling abroad (Personal Opinion) hahaha.

Yaunfitda

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Quote from: coolcoinz on September 19, 2020, 07:06:38 AM

Quote from: audaciousbeing on September 18, 2020, 08:57:02 AM

This is a move that I would personally encouraged because it sends a message to people that the crypto world is not a free for all that you can come in because you have a special skill or smarter than other but you believe that those skills can not be put into better use than to steal people resources and make them cry just because they wanted to earn legitimate inflow of a platform that they have been provided such opportunity. Kudos to the United States government agencies for taking this initiative.

They have no jurisdiction in Russia. We've seen numerous times how the Russian government denied extradition of their citizens to the EU and the US, so this decision by US government is just for show. It will all change if those hackers are dumb enough to travel to the EU and get caught there, but as long as they stay in Russia they'll rather get employed by the secret service than sent for trial to the States.

I do agree, but it's also good coming from the US government to really send this kind of message, not just for the Russians hackers, but the Chinese or even Iranian. They could be persecuted in absentia, and could b found guilty. So the ball now goes to those cyber threat personalities, their world started to become small as they can't travel outside of Russia now, otherwise they will be caught.

dhemasm

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After see some response here, Looks like it's really hard to arrest the hacker/theft if they are overseas, If the State can't even handle it how about some country especially my country (Indonesia) Can Handle it (If the hacker come from Russia or the other Country that have different jurisdiction).

Well it make me not sure if i must report it my local police, I also have case. My fund was stolen ($4000) from my Ethereum address (https://etherscan.io/address/0x2D923A09Bf3110b21381A528552700531dE83F63) January and 2 days before (Uni Airdrop) It sended to binance but after contacting the support the process it's more complicated.

Thanks for this one, I will make it as refrence for my case.

Topic: US charges two Russian crypto hackers - page 2. (Read 807 times)