Topic: US Gov. on the brink of defaulting, + National Debt Clock (Read 206 times)

You are right, that opinion has been floating for decades but if didn't happen till today, doesn't mean that it won't happen tomorrow, don't be so confident. Internet was never as widespread as it is today and this changes a lot of thing, a person from country A has possibility to know what's happening in country Z and even more people all around the world can discuss about things.
Internet is a great tool to learn about economics too from top-notch books for free. The easiness and widespread availability of news will change the whole scenario.
Countries will soon move on gold because everyone analyzes that it's mistake to depend on the paper that belongs to another country or probably exclusively to FED. If the USA defaults, it will be a terrible experience for every country. Don't forget that the USA exports its debt in another countries and it will be hard for these countries to pay.

They can't just act as if it doesn't exists, but the problem they have right now is within and not with other nations. It's basically US government saying that you can't be in this much debt to itself, and blocking to get even more debt, and that causes a bit of a trouble, because in order to grow you need to make a debt.

Imagine yourself like a factory owner, you make 10k breads a day, and make 10k dollars in profit, if you take a loan of 1 million dollars, you can buy machines that could make 20k breads, and make you 20k dollars per day, and you can pay the loan back easily, but now you have 1 million dollar in debt, next day, you want to get 10 million in debt and make 100k breads and 100k profit a day, the next day you want 1 billion in .. you see? Other nations are fine with it, because they know USA can pay it back, it's USA within that's arguing it.

Well, it may look silly at first, but when you consider the (smaller) debt that US owes to other countries, any kind of movement in the big debt will send reverberations to all the other national debts. It's not like they can just write off the $31T and pretend that it didn't happen, because other non-government entities have other loans with the central bank and the Federal reserve.

when the US central bank (government owned)
and the US treasury(government owned) have a debt between themselves

.. is it truly a debt

if 2Y = Y*2
is it a meaningful formulae of something that solves something. or just something that can cancel itself out thus showing its meaningless

if i owe myself $31trillion. and i pay myself $31 trillion to cancel my own debt with myself.. what has actually changed

then do i need to actually pay myself. or tell myself to write off my own debt

I was first concerned about US debt around 15 years ago. That was when it was an issue for me, personally. Back then it was impossible to get anyone to take the US deficit seriously. It was still impossible to convince americans to take the deficit seriously when Trump ran for President in 2016.

Recently, something strange happened. Americans have begun to take topics like the deficit much more seriously than in the past. It may have been the 2020 pandemic which triggered it. As someone who observed for 15 years, the shift in public perception is palpable. People appear to be learning, becoming more literate about topics relating to finance and economics more quickly than expected. It is a refreshing thing to see people begin to care about relevant topics which might have an impact upon their future.

It could be worth noting that the united states isn't the only nation in the world with debt that is a decent chunk of GDP. Many nations of the world have similar liability issues and are identically attempting to print and spend their way out of it. While de dollarization is a real thing and many nations are taking steps to abandon the US dollar as an international reserve currency. These steps alone will not be enough for nations of the world to insulate themselves from their own national debt.

Uh, yeah....that's not just something that happened overnight or only since Biden's been president.  That debt clock has been ticking away for years at an alarming rate. 

If tax revenue were sufficient to fund all of the US government's expenses, do you think they'd even be in debt?  Taxing citizens is just like putting a band-aid on a slit artery that's gushing blood.  And the worst part is that I have no idea what the plan is to stem the bleeding in the long term.  Money can't just be printed indefinitely without serious consequences, like we've already been seeing with inflation.

The US might be stable in my lifetime, but I think it's a sinking ship that's just going down very slowly, and it's the next few generations that are either going to drown or figure out a solution.  Good luck, kids!

Thanks for sharing this webpage, I had never seen it before. It offers a lot of information.

It blows my mind this webpages somehow manages to show this figures on live, and also I did not imagine the credit card holders owed so much money...

Still, I expect the Republican party to get their stuff together and increase the debt limit, before the economical consequences start to appear, even thought the democrat party won't negotiate spending cuts.

I believe that we should be not be worried about bitcoin itself because this defaulting will be helpful for bitcoin and the price will go up for sure, because the more you devalue dollar, the more bitcoin will go up.

However, purchasing price will not be that different even when bitcoin goes up because dollar would be devalued. I think the best thing to do would be keep holding your coins, and if you could invest into it a bit that would be great as well. I believe that should be the way we could get out of this. If you are keeping any dollars, specially in stablecoins because we are in crypto, it's time to move away from that as much as possible.

This isn't the first time that the US has faced an issue of this magnitude which is why I am not expecting anything different this time around either.

Congress will take a decision regardless of the ongoing impasse between the democrats and the republicans and the global economy will be affected to some extent, but it will recover with time.

Only fools would think that the USD would collapse so easily. History will repeat as usual in this case.

National debt keeps rising, but US politicians don't give a damn about it. The country would be on the brink of defaulting if numbers continue to rise like there's no tomorrow. If that happens, then you can say goodbye to US hegemony for good. The US Dollar will lose its status as the reserve currency of the world, while the country itself will lose influence over other nations. American decline has been predicted for a long time, so don't be surprised if all of this happens in a "blink of an eye".

With the world's major economies going downhill, Bitcoin could emerge as Fiat's replacement. No one can predict the future, so let's hope for the best. Just my thoughts

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I've known about that clock for many years too.


Well that has been so far, it looks like the US dollar might be starting to lose its reserve status, and I say might very cautiously because although there is some indication, I still don't see clear signs. If in x years it loses it, it will not be able to continue exporting inflation to the rest of the world.

See this thread for example:
   
The world continues dumping US dollar (Gold, New World Order, World War III)

Hey NotATether, you may want have a look at another tab too:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

No country seems to be saved, they are all in a headlong rush, and the only way to stop this seems like at least a gold partially backed currency, or even hypothetically although this is not on the table, a partially backed currency in Bitcoin.

You know what. That debt clock I’ve seen maybe 20 years ago. They were saying it’s a big issue back then and here we are still 20 years later and it keeps on growing. However it won’t default on its debt. People have been saying for years that it will but it hasn’t happened yet and it won’t.

The debt will be increased like it always does and life will go on. If the us defaulted on debt then every country around the world would be in big trouble and nobody wants that.

Its not the first time that this happened though and by this point, unless anything immediate happen to their life then most people wont even care about it. People do care more about what they now called as "genders" is not limited to only two right now rather than all these economic problems

Anyway, whoever made this site is good. I check my country's debt and its GDP ratio, its pretty close to the national data though

To be fair they had such a huge ceiling before, and they kept on rising it more and more and more. In fact, I remember 2 periods where government was at halt and no government worker got a pay check for weeks. Why? Because they couldn't agree on increasing the debt ceiling in both those situations. There was literally no USA government on that period because of this issue. No matter what happens, I guarantee you that it will end up with higher debt ceiling eventually, either they can do it right away, or they could postpone it for more votes and just hold it there and cause trouble, but eventually it will go up even more without a doubt.

Just made a thread about this before I saw your thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/possible-fakeout-due-debt-ceiling-not-priced-in-5436930

Basically my take is that the debt ceiling debate is not priced in. It's coming and it's coming with massive amounts of drama. Democrats are pushing for a coup d'etat if needed, in order to print the infamous trillion dollar platinum coin. Republicans which got the House are going to push for negotiations. No matter what I think the market is sleeping on this and it's not priced in by any means. Moons are aligning too and this coincides with the dollar bottom, sp500 top as well as btc top. I believe markets will go into the usd, making the price go up, and then the FED raising rates again. BTC will just follow the sp500 which means down. Then later this year recesion and unemployment will hit, forming a bottom, that's were markets will capitulate and BTC will go to all time highs by 2024/2025 as well as the sp500.

Yeah, they even have mobile apps for Android and Apple i[Whatever]OS.


Probably many Americans know about it by now but the people in charge of the Fed Reserve decided they can't do anything to fix it.


Did you see what happened when all of these crypto lending corps filed for bankruptcy? That's also a form of defaulting that screwed over all of their creditors and users. Except in this case it is going to be *everybody* doing business with the United States (including their own residents) that will be effected, with the ricocheting effect ensuring that every single entity feels the reverberation.

I think you should also consider the size of the US economy to get a clear picture of their debt, compared to other countries. We need to understand that debt are driving an economy and that not all debt are bad. People need a roof over their head.. and not many people are in a position to pay cash for a house... so they take out a mortgage with a Bank and they pay for that house.

The biggest problem come in when people cannot pay back the debt and when they survive on debt. So, we need some statistics to show how many people are defaulting on their debt and how much of that debt is good.  

In this instance .... the US government might be in a position... where they might default on its debt or stop paying interest on its bonds.

The US debt has been of concern for years, and people mention regularly that it will lead to big troubles. But since it's been going on for a while, it's unclear how much it can keep going on, maybe another decade without issues.
Now, AFAIK, to default on foreign debt, you need to fail paying your regular payments. Not just miss a deadline, but miss another one you get after missing the first one. So far, I don't think the US has allowed that to happen, so no default is happening. At some point, this debt thing can burst, I agree, but it may not be a short-term problem, which is why it's so regularly neglected in the US by the authorities.

Oh man, the US Debt figures are moving faster than the income tax revenue alongside. Damn, US is on the verge of explode with unreal debts followed by possible collapse. Now some of the guys might just say this is being said from many days or years and yet we are good to go with this year or the next year. But this time, the figures are real and people are smart to understand what is going up with the government and their plannings etc.

I mean whoever made this Click, it’s amazing. Not sure how the data is being collected and how it is managed Real time but that’s good piece of art.

Are we not afraid about the red values? What’s going on with US! Terrifying.

Interest on national debt keeps rising so FED also increases interest rate to counter - what a system we live in right now hehe. It's not like we can do something to stop it but we can still try to protect ourselves or our investments from the global impact of an increasing US debt ceiling.