Topic: US wants to know bitcoin electricity usage in the country - page 2. (Read 434 times)

Huh?? i didn't say mining isn't done by fossil fuels. I said a lot of mining is done with renewables and if environmentalists understood how mining worked and the benefits it provides they would be promoting more mining at renewable energy planets, not fossil fuel plants.

I think there should be miners operating at every renewable power plant to turn on when consumption doesn't match generation. When this is done at fossil fuel plants it is of course not good because at those plants they are just burning more fossil fuels (though using flare gas is good because that is fossil fuel that is already wasted and can go toward bitcoin mining with zero cost to the environment). But when done at renewable power plants it uses wasted electricity and strengthens the green energy production market, both very beneficial for society. But people who want a study to see how much power mining consumes aren't even going to understand this is how it works.

I bet the purpose of this study is just to point out the obvious, that mining uses a lot of electricity, and they'll disregard the good things that mining does and entirely miss out on the ways the government could promote mining to help the renewable energy market and just use the big number to say bitcoin is bad to justify some sort of attempt at a law to try to stop mining.

Now if the idea was to use this study to promote some regulations that put a bit of pressure on mining companies that use fossil fuels to switch over to renewables, through some sensible incentives, that'd be great. But politicians really don't understand how bitcoin mining works so I guarantee this is going to be a biased report and they aren't going to actually have the knowledge to use the information they gather in a way that helps Bitcoin and America and the environment.

So you agree that we're seeing each year 30 000 tones of electronic waste, right? 


If you had to google that, then franky...google everything, cause , well, you know nothing!

That aside, in that wall of text which has no end and no start, doodles with no connections between them do you actually have a point?
Other than admitting there is no s21 mining in any significant volume, other than if Bitmain would have tested it on large scale you would see the sudden spike and then the drop as they ship those, that the T21 is schedule for March, that we don't see the market flooded with old gear, that Bit main is still selling s19, that mining is not just about the electrical cost on the rating Bitmain gives with are usually off the chart by at least 5%, and other things a miner should know?


Yeah, see the problem, I don't! I can't feel sorry for somebody who refuses to learn and who keep blurting out the same non-sense!
Somebody who has never admit being wrong once like he's god or something, despite being wrong in every single like!

first of all... you need to realise many things about many things before deciding that you should try to throw your thoughts around

lets break it down for you

in the post you wanted to poke holes into.. i mentioned the s19 and s21
you wanted to cry about s21.. by mentioning your little hash contract you have with their hosting for YOUR s17 YOU have not made ROI from

secondly i just googled about roit(took 4 seconds) to find references that they had 10's of thousands of s19  (NINETEEN)
so your attempt to now go weirdly extreme opposition by now saying your favoured farm thats in hot water is a s17 farm is a laugh

i think you are trying to project your own personal inefficiency onto the entire network

thirdly
everyone knows bitmain dont just solder circuits together and throw them on a truck..
they (lets call it "quality assurance") pre-run asics on a few pools they partner with
mhm, yep.. i said it  its a known fact before small farms like your favourite one even get to touch a s21, there have been farms using s21 even in 2023.. are you shocked!!! you shouldnt be, but i would not be surprised that you didnt know this basic stuff

but putting that aside

when there are GUESTIMATES using january data they are STUPIDLY (LIKE YOU) using outdated inefficient hardware ESTIMATES to fudge the numbers to appear as the network uses more electric then it actually does..
we both know i called you out on your blind admiration of the cambridge exaggerated numbers.. and i had to point out you should look at the methodology page and do a "find in page" for  'guess'(19) 'estimate'(57)  'assumption'(31) to reveal how many times they say their stuff is just guesses and assumptions


i however showed rational numbers of january knowing there are both s21 and s19 on th network right now...
also worth noting asics make ROI in 2 years or less.. i feel sorry for you if your rented s17 has not made ROI in many years

i think you are just upset that your own rental is not performing and may get sanctioned/removed from your host by the EPA for using fossil fuel. and so you want to pretend the rest of the network is in the same dire position as you

reality is whilst your s17 rig which is wasting 40-50+j/th .. the average bitcoin network efficiency is actually in the range of 17-21j/th

i do hope you can break your contract to sell your old rig and maybe use a bit of it to upgrade..
but dont exaggerate the numbers by using guesstimates of inefficient hardware using network peak hashrate.. to produce excessively out of bounds guesses of electric usage

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ill say this again to pre-empt more cries from you
i did not mention the batch of newest asics ordered last year but first releasing this year (T21, S21 Hydro) which are 14-16j/th
i instead mentioned the s19-s21 21-17j/th which are on the network right now, and not just for 10 days

i do genuinely feel sorry for you for being a lagger, lagging behind current trends and not making ROI. i hope your life improves
but dont project that the rest of the network is lagging behind with you..
majority of asic farms do not lag behind inefficiently mining for 5 years on old redundant hardware. most attempt to upgrade under 2 year lifecycles to stay competitive and in profit.

I just hope they will get honest data. Because if this is a cunning way for them to create a survey or a study just to back up whatever sinister plan they have against Bitcoin, then they will definitely end up with a damaging set of data. Whatever negative plans they have against Bitcoin will now be justified.

So far I think a big source of Bitcoin mining in the US is already renewable. Some of those operations using grid electricity are also taking advantage of surplus in the supply.

The Bitcoin miners have been making some profit lately and then this happened. LOL. I am not from the US and I don't have any Idea about electricity usage in the US. But, the government wants to know the information means something is going to happen in the future. I don't know if the US has to buy electricity from other countries, I always thought they have enough power sources. I don't think they have to limit electricity usage unless they are buying electricity from outside the US. I have seen some YouTube videos where the miners were setting up solar panels for their mining farm. I don't know if that helps enough. Let's hope no more censorship.

Franky, RIOT will be buying gear till 2025 at least since they have 200 000 machines on order!
But this doesn't mean they are right mining with an ASIC that Bitmain started to deliver on the second week of January!

What part of not using a gear that is barely available to anyone right now as being used by all the miners exclusively you don't get?


I just love when you have one of your brain meltdowns, it pisses you so much when I'm catching you not knowing what you're talking about!


What other farms when the first batch from Bitmain was a month ago?  

wait werent you saying RIOT was buying loads of asics 2020-23 increasing its hashrate using most efficient asics..
wait werent you saying RIOT was profitably mining at extreme cheap electric prices

oh so now they are not making ROI and using old gear.. .. ok.. sucks to be you(a fan of them).. but atleast you admit they are not as great as your previous adverts of them
lets not also forget how they were selling power because they were not using it. and yep legal issues ensued with that too

but to stompix ROIT are the greatest and does the best mining

oh and whilst distribution centers of asics maybe doing deliveries to the little farms such as stomixes favourite.. what he doesnt realise is other mining farms related to bitmain were mining on s21 before stompixs favoured farm ever got a delivery

maybe stompix is just upset that his favoured farm is not making ROI and in legal issues and not getting deliveries so wants to suppose no one mines on newer gear because he wants to keep his last dream alive that his favoured RIOT are the best.. rather than realise RIOT are not

but i do feel sad that stompix must be a hashrate renter of riot, using outdated gear thats currently in legal dispute, running on fossil fuel and probably going to get a EPA sanction ontop

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i still laugh that stompix idolises a farm that cant make ROI on s17 and have not yet upgraded hardware to atleast an s19

Which Bitmain has started shipping barely 10 days ago but you think all the hashrate is made out of, lol 
Keep trying franky! Meanwhile Riot still miens at rockdale with s17s series!
You do realize at the rate you're throwing's old miners out of the game that basically none of it had time to ROI before it's being replaced?

But you have to love the attitude here!
What do you guys fear?
Everyone said miners run only on green energy, so ...no problem right?
Miners consume less energy than Christmas lights , so, why is everyone scared?


So a 750MW coal power plant at Rockdale and a 350mw at Harding, a 250 gas powerplant at Greenridge, 4 natural gas powerplants in Canada by Hut 8, the gas powerplant at North Bay, 600MW of coal at Merom Generating Station, 300 MW at Whinstone it's all green and environment friendly , right? 

I now know why everyone fears this inquiry!
Because they know that the actual truth is not the truth they want!

That kinda sucks cuz its definitely just going to be used to try to make bitcoin look bad.

I very much doubt they are going to dig into the details to see that bitcoin uses a lot of clean energy, bitcoin helps power plants, bitcoin solves energy imbalance issues. Probably just want a big energy consumption number so they can say "bitcoin bad" since they don't actually understand how the mining industry works.

If they understood how mining works environmentalists (me being one) would promote bitcoin mining being used at renewable energy plants, and to solve other energy imbalance issues.

no one bothers using the asics of 2016 anymore which cambridge still uses in its GUESTIMATES of 121 last year
cambridge still use the s19 range and include many that are inefficient and unprofitable.. which everyone knows people retire those.
no one uses unprofitable hardware. they secondary market sell old hardware for altcoins to use whilst upgrading to latest generation asics to stay profitable

heck.. cambridge still uses a 30 j/thash rate.. although current gen asics (s19-s21) are 21-17 respectively

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using current generation(bitmain s21) asics of 3.5kw for 200thash
with network peaking at 540Exahash (emphasis peak=most)

if the network was 540exahash all year
540000000 /200thash = 2700000 asics
2700000 * 3.5kw = 9450000kw/h = 9450mw/h = 9.45gw/h
9.45gw/h = 226.8gw/day = 82,782gw/year = 82.78Tw/y

82 is better then 121


now with that all said..
the 540 was a peak but assumed all year
the actual average hashrate of the year is 374767942.7 (375exa) which is a 57.48tw/year using current gen(s21) asics
the actual average hashrate of the year is 374767942.7 (375exa) which is a 71tw/year using last gen(s19) asics

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US uses over 4000TW/year for all electric(residential, business, industry) which would be 80TW/year at  2% rate
but this 2% of american rate (80tw/y) is more then WORLD bitcoin usage.
the amount of bitcoin usage of electric for just american miners is far less than 2%

in short bitcoin does not use 2% of americas electric

Most definitely, they want to consider another revenue generation avenue and industry for the US to keep milking. It's obvious that SEC has opened their eyes to the fact that the potential in the blockchain space.
They are further exploring the way and measure through which they can regulate control over the operation of mining crypto. This too shall pass and blockchain is bigger and better than their antiques.

Because those factories create goods that are useful to society or can be exported, they also create jobs. While Bitcoin mining enriches only the few and not very useful to society as a whole. Plus mining has potential to disrupt the energy grid because mining operations can pop up suddenly and draw a lot of power. There have already been cases in other countries when authorities had to step in and ban mining as it was causing blackouts.

And you're acting as if Biden already banned mining when this is just a survey that it aimed to just study whether there is a negative impact or not.

Sooner or later more things that have to do with Bitcoin mining, tax, and payment will be something the US president will have interest in ever since Bitcoin spot ETF has been approved which is something some US senate don't want to see happen so some of this Senate will want to open the eyes of the President to some area that may impact BTC market in some ways.

That’s something so interesting and stressing  at the same time, once the US government puts their hand something they always ruins it and end it. I don’t think they can effect bitcoin somehow because it will effect also many stuff related to bitcoin, stores, businesses, companies and online services.
But if something really happened and they could cut the electricity for mining bitcoin machines it might be the end of bitcoin and the price will fall badly, maybe they will put extra fees for the electricity related to mining which also can make things bad in crypto market.
I don’t live in united states so it’s hard to predict what can happen next after the finish their data collecting and what decisions they would take against bitcoin mining, can someone explain more about what can happen?

It is like attack against Bitcoin. One day after attack from the USA, there is another one from Europe. They don't do this randomly but nearly in time coincidentally, all was planned, in my opinion.

Many fud against Bitcoin mining and it is just coming back when Bitcoin needs correction.

Ses a fud in 2017
Bitcoin mining on track to consume all of the world's energy by 2020.

Magically, not till 2020 but today in 2024, we still have energy to use even Bitcoin network hashrate grew a lot since 2020 and Bitcoin mining industry grew dramatically.

And that strategy can only work with centralized exchanges system and not for the decentralized exchanges ecosystem. If USA is trying nto monitor cryptocurrency users data then as I said earlier it can only goe the KYC system and not for the non KYC system or platforms. USA is always bringing new things to regulate bitcoin and it brothers cryptocurrencies but they can't do that to non custodial wallets.

They should just let bitcoin be the way it because the more they try to regulate the more difficult for them to do.

Is this their strategy to start attacking us base miners? Because if the outcome of the survey is anything less than expected i guess that will be their next line of action otherwise what will prompt such surveys in the first place 
The moment things about to get serious some irrelevant fud will pop up from the government, kind of like there is a dept that solely focuses on creating fud for the govt. 

I want to hope this is their way of helping Bitcoin out like some users pointed above.  But considering the previous actions taken by The United States against Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency in general, I do not think it is their intention.  I for one expect the worst or dumbest thing to happen soon.  Probably hearing about Bitcoin being the 'main contributor' of climate change again.  Or obliging Miners to pay extra Tax for contributing to it.

there is nothing good when the government surveys and collects data.  this is where they will identify whether the miner is using the grid or their own green-environment-friendly energy source. i guess they would do something to those miners using the electricity coming from the grid. most probably collect their share maybe but don't think the green energy miners are safe.

my guess is, the miners will sign contracts to only sell BTC to the government?
or the government will get its share from the BTC  they mine?
or this is where miners are going to be united by the government to censor transactions.  

They have gone crazy as the hatred for Bitcoin in their mind is clearly visible and I think when they cannot ban Bitcoin as they were unsuccessful in their previous smear campaigns they have now adopted new method of threatening users indirectly and all these unnecessary activities to make miners feel unsecure or to put them in spot light it's actually a design thinking called spot light affect it's a psychological game which they are playing. Bitcoin has sustain all these hurdle and it will sustain this one as well.