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Topic: USB 300MH/S ASICMiner Value Question (Read 8321 times)

sr. member
Activity: 384
Merit: 250
June 16, 2013, 03:57:43 AM
#63

A good job kramble your port to LX9 for other developer boards. Can you create a new folder in your git project for Mojo? with a base that we can contribute.

The first task we could do is to use the usb port and avr_interface library to communicate, how do you see?

OK, its up now at https://github.com/kramble/DE0-Nano-BitCoin-Miner/tree/master/Mojo_LX9

The README should be pretty explanatory. I was unable to build the six hasher variant as PAR did not complete (overnight). It ought to fit (my homebrew Xilinx_LX9 is essentially the same code), so I need to investigate FPGA Editor to see if I can tweak the placement. So the current version is configured for three hashers (config is near the top of fpgaminer_top.v) and 50MHz. I'm using a PLL so device frequency is also configurable (if you get it working at 50MHz, try running it faster, best to use 10MHz increments to avoid weird divider ratios).

I won't be able to test it myself as I don't have a Mojo board, but I will do a port to run it on my homebrew LX9 later today (ie keeping the mojo serial code). The python mining code does work though, just be sure to set the correct COM port at the top of the file. For python neophytes, beware changing any whitespace, as space is syntax in python  Roll Eyes

BTW This is mostly fpgaminer, makomk and technohog's code, so thanks are due to them. I just tweaked it a bit.

Quote
NOTE: a small board (Mojo) that can serve to mine, right?

Yes, but only at a few MHash/sec ... dust! You'll probably never reach the pool's minimum payout at that rate!
full member
Activity: 127
Merit: 100
June 15, 2013, 12:28:21 AM
#62
I floated the idea on the Mojo board forums (uses Spartan-6 XC6SLX9)
http://forum.embeddedmicro.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68
...
Edit : lol hadn't looked at https://github.com/kramble/DE0-Nano-BitCoin-Miner/tree/master/Xilinx_LX9_hashers_6 yet...

OK, I've created an account on the Mojo board to give some support on this as its rather OT here. Discussion on bitcointalk probably belongs on https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/official-open-source-fpga-bitcoin-miner-last-update-april-14th-2013-9047

Mark

A good job kramble your port to LX9 for other developer boards. Can you create a new folder in your git project for Mojo? with a base that we can contribute.

The first task we could do is to use the usb port and avr_interface library to communicate, how do you see?

NOTE: a small board (Mojo) that can serve to mine, right?
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
June 09, 2013, 02:06:12 PM
#61
To chime in on the original question. The value if you're adding to an existing mining operation (or attempting to build a new one) is negative. If they could be purchased for 0.5 btc that would be much much better, but still not 'good'.

If you're buying them to replace existing gpus that are currently hashing, then they do actually have positive value in the sense of them reducing your electric consumption. Assuming you replaced some gh/s you'd hit roi in only a few months just on the power savings.

However, ~2btc each they'll take almost 2 years to earn back the btc you'd spend on them... and that's a best case scenario.

newbie
Activity: 19
Merit: 0
June 09, 2013, 12:47:17 PM
#60
Quote
The problem is that BTC price is not rising in relation to difficulty increases as it should be.

It shouldn't be linearly rising. This is going to be a very complex process including many other factors. You will see it rising with the next financial crashes, considering it is a safer bet than some other notions. Like it has happened before.

Every crash left it  higher and higher. And financial crashes always come. That is a given.

Ye that's exactly my point also. its going to go up if its going to be successful so any questions about value of equipment are only relative to how long you are willing to invest in BTC for.  The risk is the complete collapse of it. Also people who have the equipment to sell want to make their profits now because they feel like their previous risks should have paid off by now are unsure of the future like everyone else is.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
June 09, 2013, 12:31:03 PM
#59
Quote
The problem is that BTC price is not rising in relation to difficulty increases as it should be.

It shouldn't be linearly rising. This is going to be a very complex process including many other factors. You will see it rising with the next financial crashes, considering it is a safer bet than some other notions. Like it has happened before.

Every crash left it  higher and higher. And financial crashes always come. That is a given.
erk
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500
June 09, 2013, 07:54:08 AM
#58
I think that they are an investment.

BTC cant stay at ~100$ forever if its going to be "successful".
With only 21 million coins, market liquidity won't be possible with only $2.1billion money stock.

The good thing is that Bitcoins ROI time is shorter than traditional investment methods.
Its still a gamble, and with all big rewards, comes big risks - just as it has been like at every step of Bitcoins existence.
The problem is that BTC price is not rising in relation to difficulty increases as it should be.

The US gov has gone out of it's way to make it harder to get $USD into BTC exchanges, and there are periodic rapid BTC sell offs driving the price back down, when it should be rising.



I keep seeing this myth coming up.  Amount of BTC mined doesn't go UP.  The difficulty adjusts itself accordingly so that we get an ideal confirmation time of 10 minutes, so the amount of BTC being mined is a CONSTANT, it's simply distributed in progressively slower amounts as more miners join the game.  More pigs, SAME TROUGH, SAME SUPPLY.  it simply takes more time to create the same amount of btc now.  That is why the final creation of 21,000,000 coins has an exact date to it, otherwise it would be unpredictable.
WTF are you talking about? I am talking about the BTC price and you go off on a tangent about the rate of coin mining.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
June 09, 2013, 07:52:06 AM
#57
I think that they are an investment.

BTC cant stay at ~100$ forever if its going to be "successful".
With only 21 million coins, market liquidity won't be possible with only $2.1billion money stock.

The good thing is that Bitcoins ROI time is shorter than traditional investment methods.
Its still a gamble, and with all big rewards, comes big risks - just as it has been like at every step of Bitcoins existence.
The problem is that BTC price is not rising in relation to difficulty increases as it should be.

The US gov has gone out of it's way to make it harder to get $USD into BTC exchanges, and there are periodic rapid BTC sell offs driving the price back down, when it should be rising.


erk
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500
June 09, 2013, 07:46:23 AM
#56
I think that they are an investment.

BTC cant stay at ~100$ forever if its going to be "successful".
With only 21 million coins, market liquidity won't be possible with only $2.1billion money stock.

The good thing is that Bitcoins ROI time is shorter than traditional investment methods.
Its still a gamble, and with all big rewards, comes big risks - just as it has been like at every step of Bitcoins existence.
The problem is that BTC price is not rising in relation to difficulty increases as it should be.

The US gov has gone out of it's way to make it harder to get $USD into BTC exchanges, and there are periodic rapid BTC sell offs driving the price back down, when it should be rising.

newbie
Activity: 19
Merit: 0
June 09, 2013, 07:40:10 AM
#55
I think that they are an investment.

BTC cant stay at ~100$ forever if its going to be "successful".
With only 21 million coins, market liquidity won't be possible with only $2.1billion money stock.

The good thing is that Bitcoins ROI time is shorter than traditional investment methods.
Its still a gamble, and with all big rewards, comes big risks - just as it has been like at every step of Bitcoins existence.
sr. member
Activity: 384
Merit: 250
June 09, 2013, 04:15:35 AM
#54
I floated the idea on the Mojo board forums (uses Spartan-6 XC6SLX9)
http://forum.embeddedmicro.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68
...
Edit : lol hadn't looked at https://github.com/kramble/DE0-Nano-BitCoin-Miner/tree/master/Xilinx_LX9_hashers_6 yet...

OK, I've created an account on the Mojo board to give some support on this as its rather OT here. Discussion on bitcointalk probably belongs on https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/official-open-source-fpga-bitcoin-miner-last-update-april-14th-2013-9047

Mark
sr. member
Activity: 399
Merit: 250
June 08, 2013, 07:53:18 PM
#53
there are a few pins spare....... Just tag on a serial port... 5 minute job....

Yah, but be careful with voltage levels. Connecting to a full voltage RS232 is going to fry the fpga instantly. You'll need level translation (even for a 5V TTL  port). The serial protocol is customised too (and fixed at 4800 baud to work with a minimalist opto-isolator circuit), so its not just plug and play here. Then again if you're buying an fpga development/educational board you should expect to have to put some effort in Tongue

Oh, and to repeat, its only 5MHash/sec, or 2.34MHash/sec or whatever. Just a toy which will mine you some dust only.

[Edit] Clarifcation, by "you" I mean "you dear reader", not "you razorfishl" as you're clearly far more knowledgeable than me!!

I would hope that anyone with such a board has a least the commonsense to realize that FPGA generally don't fair well  if you shove 5v up the tootsie ;-)
Personally I aim for Virtex5  Virtex6 of Spartan6 , but in about 2 more difficulty changes, they will also have the same ROI as the 300MH/S usb whit-less wonder bait.

The sad thing is that in the distant past...... even the XC6SLX9 would have provided a decent income.
member
Activity: 116
Merit: 10
June 08, 2013, 05:31:17 PM
#52
so when is someone going to post the howto make these miners..

http://www.em.avnet.com/en-us/design/drc/Pages/Xilinx-Spartan-6-FPGA-LX9-MicroBoard.aspx

looks to be the same..

Probably 2 weeks from the moment someone gets the bright idea to spend next couple of weeks writing code for a device to mine (probably) less than 5 MH/s @ $89

IMHO the 5 MH/s and 2 weeks is me being optimistic.

Edit: Corrected typo. the usb thing is $89 not $8

I floated the idea on the Mojo board forums (uses Spartan-6 XC6SLX9)
http://forum.embeddedmicro.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68

There's interest, but at the moment, it seems as though the XC6SLX9 just doesnt have enough resources for the full design.
This was referencing https://github.com/progranism/Open-Source-FPGA-Bitcoin-Miner

That being said, some cleanup could be done around the serial comm design code included the OSFBM, and the serial comm for the mojo... but I doubt that alone would be enough to get the design small enough.

... I'd love for someone to prove me wrong though and get a working miner on it  Tongue

Edit : lol hadn't looked at https://github.com/kramble/DE0-Nano-BitCoin-Miner/tree/master/Xilinx_LX9_hashers_6 yet...
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
June 07, 2013, 04:30:31 AM
#50
there are a few pins spare....... Just tag on a serial port... 5 minute job....

Yah, but be careful with voltage levels. Connecting to a full voltage RS232 is going to fry the fpga instantly. You'll need level translation (even for a 5V TTL  port). The serial protocol is customised too (and fixed at 4800 baud to work with a minimalist opto-isolator circuit), so its not just plug and play here. Then again if you're buying an fpga development/educational board you should expect to have to put some effort in Tongue

Oh, and to repeat, its only 5MHash/sec, or 2.34MHash/sec or whatever. Just a toy which will mine you some dust only.

[Edit] Clarifcation, by "you" I mean "you dear reader", not "you razorfishl" as you're clearly far more knowledgeable than me!!
sr. member
Activity: 399
Merit: 250
June 06, 2013, 06:04:16 PM
#49

Has anyone actually tried that code on the http://www.em.avnet.com/en-us/design/drc/Pages/Xilinx-Spartan-6-FPGA-LX9-MicroBoard.aspx ? It would be interesting to know if it works. But DON'T go buying one for mining. Pathetic 5 MHash/second is mining dust. Just worthless.

[Edit] (Answering myself) No it won't work as it uses RS232 port comms. Someone would have to add the xilinx usb code from fpgaminer's github.

there are a few pins spare....... Just tag on a serial port... 5 minute job....
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
June 06, 2013, 04:52:08 PM
#48


For me it would make no difference, but the deal is shitty already without that factored in. That is why you can use a Raspberry pi to power FPGAs and similar boards: It doesn't matter, because the RPI doesnt use much power!
Then add the cost of the Raspberry Pi on top of the 2.6BTC before you work out the ROI


Yup, 30 bucks. I honestly don't think the Block Eruptor USB are that awesome...

I though about building devices like these, too. With BFL chips Cheesy
erk
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500
June 06, 2013, 03:08:38 PM
#47
Then add the cost of the Raspberry Pi on top of the 2.6BTC before you work out the ROI

the pi, at least, can be used for many, many other things. everyone should have one Wink

The Pi is better value than the Block Erupter
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1009
June 06, 2013, 02:58:32 PM
#46
Then add the cost of the Raspberry Pi on top of the 2.6BTC before you work out the ROI

the pi, at least, can be used for many, many other things. everyone should have one Wink
erk
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500
June 06, 2013, 02:54:26 PM
#45


For me it would make no difference, but the deal is shitty already without that factored in. That is why you can use a Raspberry pi to power FPGAs and similar boards: It doesn't matter, because the RPI doesnt use much power!
Then add the cost of the Raspberry Pi on top of the 2.6BTC before you work out the ROI
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
June 06, 2013, 02:37:25 PM
#44
You need only one computer to run one or several Block Erupters, think about it.
So you are including the cost of having a computer running? Everyone mining has to leave the computer running. Why factor that into the cost if the point is to compare the value of mining options?

The reason I ask is that, from what I've seen using calculators that factor in rising difficulty, these things don't break even whether you factor in the cost of a PC to power them or not.

If your miner makes less than a dollar a day and you computer uses more than a dollar a day in electricity what then.

Smart people count the power cost of the PC to run their mining.


Smart people consider whether or not their computer is running anyway Wink

For me it would make no difference, but the deal is shitty already without that factored in. That is why you can use a Raspberry pi to power FPGAs and similar boards: It doesn't matter, because the RPI doesnt use much power!
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