Use of clean energy in bitcoin mining and its impact

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Quote from: DVlog on September 26, 2023, 01:30:54 PM

Quote from: coupable on September 24, 2023, 06:18:21 PM

Quote from: Furious 7 on September 20, 2023, 04:00:45 PM

When Elon is the most vocal here then what is he doing with his electric car? even if his gas emissions are minimized with the Tesla car that is his mainstay then is it not dangerous because basically he is just transferring environmental damage from renewable energy to radioactive waste.

Elon Musk and other advocates of innovation are exploiting the popularity of the “renewable energy” culture to promote their projects, and their primary goal is not to search for serious solutions to energy problems in general. When Elon Musk thought about producing electric cars under the pretext of reducing the use of fossil energy, he did not specify the energy sources that his cars would rely on because the production of electricity also consumes many resources, and any attempt to replace it with one of the renewable sources will cost more than the profits expected from it.

They are businessman not scientists. They all want to make profits and they want to build an empire their own. To do this they need to be visionary and needs to do predict the future trend. The human race is using fossil fuels for a very long time and its negative impact is visible in some countries. They knew one day there would be a rise in carbon emissions and demands for renewable energy. So if this happens Elon and his tesla will be at the top of the empire already by that time.

I think your words are not very accurate because an investment company has the right to focus only on profitable ideas, but not for them to be profitable at the expense of the general framework in which we all live. I always blame governments and countries in general that have not yet organized a framework for companies to follow that takes into account the natural peculiarities of the planet, but I began to focus on companies because they are actually the ones who make government decisions. Elon Musk is literally benefiting from the shift to renewable energies, but at the same time he is using fossil fuel to launch other projects such as SpaceX. This contradiction cannot be explained in any other way than “greed.”
Take the pharmaceutical industry, for example. Pharmaceutical factories literally trade in our health and refuse to even criticize it. Despite this, no one dares to oppose it or stop any of its projects. Who do you think is responsible for the experiments and production that these companies do?

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Quote from: coupable on September 24, 2023, 06:18:21 PM

Quote from: Furious 7 on September 20, 2023, 04:00:45 PM

When Elon is the most vocal here then what is he doing with his electric car? even if his gas emissions are minimized with the Tesla car that is his mainstay then is it not dangerous because basically he is just transferring environmental damage from renewable energy to radioactive waste.

Elon Musk and other advocates of innovation are exploiting the popularity of the “renewable energy” culture to promote their projects, and their primary goal is not to search for serious solutions to energy problems in general. When Elon Musk thought about producing electric cars under the pretext of reducing the use of fossil energy, he did not specify the energy sources that his cars would rely on because the production of electricity also consumes many resources, and any attempt to replace it with one of the renewable sources will cost more than the profits expected from it.

They are businessman not scientists. They all want to make profits and they want to build an empire their own. To do this they need to be visionary and needs to do predict the future trend. The human race is using fossil fuels for a very long time and its negative impact is visible in some countries. They knew one day there would be a rise in carbon emissions and demands for renewable energy. So if this happens Elon and his tesla will be at the top of the empire already by that time.

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Quote from: safar1980 on September 19, 2023, 08:56:07 AM

Quote from: DeathAngel on September 19, 2023, 08:04:53 AM

Clean energy bitcoin mining such as solar or wind power is now far more prevalent than in previous years probably due to the constant FUD & criticism by MSM. We even now have El Salvador using volcanic energy to mine. Clean energy mining aims to reduce the environmental impact of cryptocurrency mining which traditionally relied on fossil fuels which contributes to carbon emissions. Clean energy bitcoin mining helps mitigate the ecological footprint of the cryptocurrency industry making it more sustainable & aligned with the global transition towards renewable energy. By utilising clean energy sources it promotes a greener future & supports the development of sustainable technologies.

Russia has the 2nd place in the world in mining, but for mining it mainly uses electricity from hydroelectric power stations.
Everyone believes that hydropower is safe electricity and its production does not emit harmful pollutants into the air, but the construction of powerful hydroelectric power plants has other negative environmental and social consequences.

They basically calculate how much negative you get from building it, and how much cleaner you get after you built it. To make it simpler, if you end up with 100 negative at first but then 500 clean with hydro, versus no 100 negative at first with coal, but then 500 negative and no clean afterwards, that means that hydro is still better.

Yes, it doesn't require any bad pollution when you first start coal mining or oil drilling, but afterwards every single day is negative, whereas hydro requires a much higher pollution rate before you start, but you can cleaner and cleaner eventually just be pure clean thanks to hydro. Well, that's at least the hope, maybe sometimes it fails, but that's what the aim is all about all around the world anywhere people do hydro powerplants.

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Quote from: Furious 7 on September 20, 2023, 04:00:45 PM

When Elon is the most vocal here then what is he doing with his electric car? even if his gas emissions are minimized with the Tesla car that is his mainstay then is it not dangerous because basically he is just transferring environmental damage from renewable energy to radioactive waste.

Elon Musk and other advocates of innovation are exploiting the popularity of the “renewable energy” culture to promote their projects, and their primary goal is not to search for serious solutions to energy problems in general. When Elon Musk thought about producing electric cars under the pretext of reducing the use of fossil energy, he did not specify the energy sources that his cars would rely on because the production of electricity also consumes many resources, and any attempt to replace it with one of the renewable sources will cost more than the profits expected from it.

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Quote from: Furious 7 on September 20, 2023, 04:00:45 PM

With some of the data provided by Oshosondy, it makes me want to laugh because why every year the excuse about clean energy and environmental pollution continues to be raised by those who do not really like bitcoin even though things like this are not too useful to be used as their shield because there have been many rebuttals Cheesy

When Elon is the most vocal here then what is he doing with his electric car? even if his gas emissions are minimized with the Tesla car that is his mainstay then is it not dangerous because basically he is just transferring environmental damage from renewable energy to radioactive waste.

I don't really care about that because in the end everything will still be the same and this excuse about environmental pollution is actually very stale.

Bitcoin and renewable energy argument will never end because Bitcoin uses huge energy for mining and running transactions. People will never end on the agitation until they see Bitcoin doing what they wanted. Elon Must had been one of the cryptocurrency influencers that many investors had been looking towards to see how he make decisions and what his next decision about crypto could be. Renewable energy uses for Bitcoin would be great but there is no need to agitating on that too much because it would look like Bitcoin is responsible for high energy consumption..

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Quote from: DVlog on September 20, 2023, 05:33:43 AM

You might be right about your information about Tesla, but they are known for their contribution to the renewable energy sector. Technology is moving forward, and scientists are looking for a possible alternative to fossil fuels. Tesla can be a leading company in this sector in the search for better options for renewable energy. In the coming decade, the government can ban using coal as an energy source and push forward the use of renewable energy, so if Tesla adds bitcoin as a payment option, it will open the path for other similar companies to use it as well.

Of course, Tesla is a company that has made significant contributions to the renewable energy sector and has contributed greatly to the acceleration of developments in this field but this cannot cause us to ignore the negative effects it has on the environment. The vehicle industry is definitely developing to found a different energy source that can be an alternative to electricity and Tesla will most likely show its leadership here too. I hope that the next step taken by Tesla will be more beneficial for the environment and will completely eliminate some negative effects.

I would like to state that we think similarly about accepting payment with Bitcoin. It doesn't matter which cryptocurrency it is but considering today's conditions if it is possible to accept payment with cryptocurrency Tesla will lead the way and cause other vehicle manufacturers to accept payments in this way with this great initiative.

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Quote from: philipma1957 on September 20, 2023, 03:19:53 PM

Quote from: SamReomo on September 20, 2023, 03:17:40 PM

Quote from: bitgolden on September 20, 2023, 10:18:30 AM

This is so obvious to people who actually know the situation but that doesn't mean that we are going to end up with a result like that at all. We need to realize that bitcoin is still not known in detail by so many people, even the ones who has heard the name bitcoin, do not know much information regarding it, and when a news station talks about how much it uses, they believe them because they do not have the better judgement to research it themselves.

This is why the ones who know, like you and me, we know that it is tiny compared to most other stuff and mostly clean, whereas the ones who do not know would fall victim to fake news and misinformation because they do not care enough to go do their research on the subject.

That's why people say that media is the king because whatever media says people blindly trust that and even if they promote fake news people will trust that news. Most of the people these days don't really do their own research and they accept whatever they hear from those media sources, and the worst thing is that the same people promote the things they heard from those media channels to other people and promote such misinformation.

We Bitcoin users know that Bitcoin mining does require energy and we also know that most of the miners and mining farms are using clean energy for the purpose of Bitcoin mining but who listen to us? They listen to only media channels and believe trust words without question. Surely, the ones who do their own research are well aware of the fact that Bitcoin mining consumes not so much energy out of global electricity production, and it's actually consuming the energy from clean energy sources mostly.

we have over 1000 solar panels in our mining locations. we generate close to 2 megawatts daily in solar energy. we are New Jersey based and are always looking for new and better mining locations here in NJ,USA or even in PA,USA

That's more than enough for us to know that most miners including philipma1957 and many others who run mining operations are using clean and renewable energy sources. The solar energy is the most clean type of energy that we can avail these days and those who use it for mining purposes are doing a great job for whole humanity because the energy we get from sun is 100% free and available in abundant quantity, and it won't deplete even if everyone use it all over the globe. Man, 2 megawatts is a lot of energy and when that's putted into mining operations then that's the best utilization of solar energy in my eyes. Keep it up philipma1957 and I hope you'll surely extend your mining setup to way higher megawatts and the mining power to many Peta hashes in future by extending the setup to more locations.

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With some of the data provided by Oshosondy, it makes me want to laugh because why every year the excuse about clean energy and environmental pollution continues to be raised by those who do not really like bitcoin even though things like this are not too useful to be used as their shield because there have been many rebuttals Cheesy

When Elon is the most vocal here then what is he doing with his electric car? even if his gas emissions are minimized with the Tesla car that is his mainstay then is it not dangerous because basically he is just transferring environmental damage from renewable energy to radioactive waste.

I don't really care about that because in the end everything will still be the same and this excuse about environmental pollution is actually very stale.

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Quote from: SamReomo on September 20, 2023, 03:17:40 PM

Quote from: bitgolden on September 20, 2023, 10:18:30 AM

This is so obvious to people who actually know the situation but that doesn't mean that we are going to end up with a result like that at all. We need to realize that bitcoin is still not known in detail by so many people, even the ones who has heard the name bitcoin, do not know much information regarding it, and when a news station talks about how much it uses, they believe them because they do not have the better judgement to research it themselves.

This is why the ones who know, like you and me, we know that it is tiny compared to most other stuff and mostly clean, whereas the ones who do not know would fall victim to fake news and misinformation because they do not care enough to go do their research on the subject.

That's why people say that media is the king because whatever media says people blindly trust that and even if they promote fake news people will trust that news. Most of the people these days don't really do their own research and they accept whatever they hear from those media sources, and the worst thing is that the same people promote the things they heard from those media channels to other people and promote such misinformation.

We Bitcoin users know that Bitcoin mining does require energy and we also know that most of the miners and mining farms are using clean energy for the purpose of Bitcoin mining but who listen to us? They listen to only media channels and believe trust words without question. Surely, the ones who do their own research are well aware of the fact that Bitcoin mining consumes not so much energy out of global electricity production, and it's actually consuming the energy from clean energy sources mostly.

we have over 1000 solar panels in our mining locations. we generate close to 2 megawatts daily in solar energy. we are New Jersey based and are always looking for new and better mining locations here in NJ,USA or even in PA,USA

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Quote from: bitgolden on September 20, 2023, 10:18:30 AM

This is so obvious to people who actually know the situation but that doesn't mean that we are going to end up with a result like that at all. We need to realize that bitcoin is still not known in detail by so many people, even the ones who has heard the name bitcoin, do not know much information regarding it, and when a news station talks about how much it uses, they believe them because they do not have the better judgement to research it themselves.

This is why the ones who know, like you and me, we know that it is tiny compared to most other stuff and mostly clean, whereas the ones who do not know would fall victim to fake news and misinformation because they do not care enough to go do their research on the subject.

That's why people say that media is the king because whatever media says people blindly trust that and even if they promote fake news people will trust that news. Most of the people these days don't really do their own research and they accept whatever they hear from those media sources, and the worst thing is that the same people promote the things they heard from those media channels to other people and promote such misinformation.

We Bitcoin users know that Bitcoin mining does require energy and we also know that most of the miners and mining farms are using clean energy for the purpose of Bitcoin mining but who listen to us? They listen to only media channels and believe trust words without question. Surely, the ones who do their own research are well aware of the fact that Bitcoin mining consumes not so much energy out of global electricity production, and it's actually consuming the energy from clean energy sources mostly.

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Quote from: Helena Yu on September 18, 2023, 09:45:02 AM

When you want to talk about criticism toward Bitcoin, you need to deal with it by visiting this thread Knowledge to help you argue with bitcoin critics

Bitcoin mining do consume energy, but it's not big and they already use clean energy. Just close your eyes when institutional entity or someone that self pro claimed to be Bitcoin specialist talk about this particular thing.

They're trying to destroy Bitcoin, if they talk about mining consuming energy, money laundering, bubble/tulip mania, etc, they're uneducated people.

This is so obvious to people who actually know the situation but that doesn't mean that we are going to end up with a result like that at all. We need to realize that bitcoin is still not known in detail by so many people, even the ones who has heard the name bitcoin, do not know much information regarding it, and when a news station talks about how much it uses, they believe them because they do not have the better judgement to research it themselves.

This is why the ones who know, like you and me, we know that it is tiny compared to most other stuff and mostly clean, whereas the ones who do not know would fall victim to fake news and misinformation because they do not care enough to go do their research on the subject.

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Quote from: BitcoinTurk on September 19, 2023, 05:03:55 PM

Quote from: DVlog on September 18, 2023, 09:35:48 AM

Quote from: Oshosondy on September 18, 2023, 08:01:03 AM

Bitcoin does not need Elon Musk. He should fuck off.

Elon Musk only manipulated for people to leave bitcoin for doge. That man will not accept bitcoin for anything, his mission is doge.

After he stopped payment for bitcoin, bitcoin still later increased and got to all-time-high.

What about Tesla? I do not like Elon because of his unpredictable nature, and he has made positive and negative statements in the past about bitcoin. I do not like any meme projects as well, but a car company like Tesla can be at the forefront of the bitcoin market in the future. They have a large user base and resources to accept bitcoin for their online payments.

Elon has a personality that acts in line with his own popularity and earnings. So, describing Elon as someone who loves Bitcoin is not actually accurate because his love for Bitcoin is only due to the fact that Bitcoin has power in the cryptocurrency market and has the strongest community. So, we can be sure that Elon will choose this option if a different cryptocurrency replaces Bitcoin or has a better community by the time his companies start accepting payments in cryptocurrencies.

I would like to say this about Tesla;

Tesla is the leading company in the electric vehicle industry and still produces very successful models today. Although, it is theoretically an environmentally friendly automobile company, this isn't actually the case. It isn't necessary for a vehicle to be electric to be environmentally friendly. Although, electric cars produce zero emissions during their use, the emissions generated during the production of these vehicles are several times higher than those of an internal combustion vehicle. In other words, although it is beneficial for the environment during vehicle use unfortunately it is quite harmful to the environment during its production. Of course, in the long term this emission difference can be amortized and be more beneficial for the environment but it is necessary to know that not everything is as innocent as it seems.

You might be right about your information about Tesla, but they are known for their contribution to the renewable energy sector. Technology is moving forward, and scientists are looking for a possible alternative to fossil fuels. Tesla can be a leading company in this sector in the search for better options for renewable energy. In the coming decade, the government can ban using coal as an energy source and push forward the use of renewable energy, so if Tesla adds bitcoin as a payment option, it will open the path for other similar companies to use it as well.

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To be fair the arguments are usually about "that clean energy could be created either way, we could use it for something else" and that is valid but why make it go down from crypto mining and not something else? Its not about how it was created because how it was created is already done process, its created already, we are spending it with crypto mining and there are places and organizations that expect us to not use it this way, I feel like they are overlooking the fact that this helps people out, we should cut energy spending from somewhere else instead. This is why I do not completely understand the whole process and the idea behind cutting down on crypto mining energy spending.

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Quote from: DVlog on September 18, 2023, 09:35:48 AM

Quote from: Oshosondy on September 18, 2023, 08:01:03 AM

Bitcoin does not need Elon Musk. He should fuck off.

Elon Musk only manipulated for people to leave bitcoin for doge. That man will not accept bitcoin for anything, his mission is doge.

After he stopped payment for bitcoin, bitcoin still later increased and got to all-time-high.

What about Tesla? I do not like Elon because of his unpredictable nature, and he has made positive and negative statements in the past about bitcoin. I do not like any meme projects as well, but a car company like Tesla can be at the forefront of the bitcoin market in the future. They have a large user base and resources to accept bitcoin for their online payments.

Elon has a personality that acts in line with his own popularity and earnings. So, describing Elon as someone who loves Bitcoin is not actually accurate because his love for Bitcoin is only due to the fact that Bitcoin has power in the cryptocurrency market and has the strongest community. So, we can be sure that Elon will choose this option if a different cryptocurrency replaces Bitcoin or has a better community by the time his companies start accepting payments in cryptocurrencies.

I would like to say this about Tesla;

Tesla is the leading company in the electric vehicle industry and still produces very successful models today. Although, it is theoretically an environmentally friendly automobile company, this isn't actually the case. It isn't necessary for a vehicle to be electric to be environmentally friendly. Although, electric cars produce zero emissions during their use, the emissions generated during the production of these vehicles are several times higher than those of an internal combustion vehicle. In other words, although it is beneficial for the environment during vehicle use unfortunately it is quite harmful to the environment during its production. Of course, in the long term this emission difference can be amortized and be more beneficial for the environment but it is necessary to know that not everything is as innocent as it seems.

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In fact, the share of energy used for mining is very small in total consumption. The government is just making a big deal out of it. Let them stop their more dangerous military programs. They just want to tax the miners heavily so no one can hide. This is unfair game.

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Quote from: joniboini on September 18, 2023, 08:22:43 PM

Is there any government that is like that though? As far as I know, some governments who use renewable energy only supplies it in limited amount. At least in developing countries. I might be wrong but I remember reading news about how some miners are blocked by electricity companies even though they use wind to generate energy due to how demanding it is.

I guess miners who have the capital would rather build their own electricity supply instead of relying on government/centralized electricity companies that prioritize regular customers. Some miners might be able to claim that their activity is similar to other businesses, but then their profit might be affected too since their rates can be higher than the norm. CMIIW.

The miners should ready to spend some money for the electricity to do the mining.Because mining also like the trading,you need to inverse some money for the setup.Then you need to spend some money on every month for the electricity,by this you can get some valuable coin which you set up for mining.In some countries the mining was banned and some countries the government ban the mining setup by finding the enormous electricity using point using their application of power consuming.Blaming of bitcoin mining was the convective concept.

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Quote from: icalical on September 19, 2023, 08:49:53 AM

Is this one of the reason why we see some small price increase in bitcoin lately?

Well, if we want to be honest, we need to accept that the negative sentiment regarding bitcoin demanding energy and carbon footprint, has been of the reason why people campaigning against Bitcoin, and it could be affecting the price. Not to mention that many countries especially in Europe has put more of their focus on climate issue, so Bitcoin moving to more sustainable energy should make people have a better perception of bitcoin.

An small increase following a larger decrease is still negative. We went from 30k to 25 and then back to 27- that's bearish until we get back to 30.
We could say this is normal price action before the halving. Bitcoin usually goes sideways until after the halving and it can experience large drops in this period, even though the bottom is in.
I'm not a speculator so I don't care about people who draw lines in the sand saying this is the resistance that needs to be broken for us to go up, but bitcoin is clearly held by people who understand it, which stops it from crashing, but also not being bought by the "street" that usually pumps the price, which is why we're sitting stable between 20 and 30k. I expect this to change by the end of the year when people really feel the halving getting close.

Musk isn't going to do anything. He's an attention seeker so expect him to tease you and then change his mind and give you nothing.

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Forget about pleasing adepts of political correctness and hypocritical people in general. There will be always complaints about Bitcoin, if that is their primarly goal. They don't like Bitcoin or Bitcoin isn't part of their personal interests, so the rage will continue going on against the digital currency, just through another arguments.

Let's say Bitcoin were fully mined with green energy (100%): then they would start complaining, why are you wasting so much green energy on this ponzi scheme, while you could be supplying poor nations around the world, or replacing fossil fuel consumption in several countries?

The problem isn't fossil fuel, clean energy or mining. The problem for those people is Bitcoin and the fact they don't have total control over it. Include Elon Musk on this.

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Quote from: DeathAngel on September 19, 2023, 08:04:53 AM

Clean energy bitcoin mining such as solar or wind power is now far more prevalent than in previous years probably due to the constant FUD & criticism by MSM. We even now have El Salvador using volcanic energy to mine. Clean energy mining aims to reduce the environmental impact of cryptocurrency mining which traditionally relied on fossil fuels which contributes to carbon emissions. Clean energy bitcoin mining helps mitigate the ecological footprint of the cryptocurrency industry making it more sustainable & aligned with the global transition towards renewable energy. By utilising clean energy sources it promotes a greener future & supports the development of sustainable technologies.

Russia has the 2nd place in the world in mining, but for mining it mainly uses electricity from hydroelectric power stations.
Everyone believes that hydropower is safe electricity and its production does not emit harmful pollutants into the air, but the construction of powerful hydroelectric power plants has other negative environmental and social consequences.

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Is this one of the reason why we see some small price increase in bitcoin lately?

Well, if we want to be honest, we need to accept that the negative sentiment regarding bitcoin demanding energy and carbon footprint, has been of the reason why people campaigning against Bitcoin, and it could be affecting the price. Not to mention that many countries especially in Europe has put more of their focus on climate issue, so Bitcoin moving to more sustainable energy should make people have a better perception of bitcoin.

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Quote from: DVlog on September 18, 2023, 07:45:37 AM

-snip-

IMO, criticize an action that can push something in a better direction. Criticism is an action that shows concern for an object. In my opinion, criticism is normal and normal, including criticism made against Bitcoin. The groups that continue to criticize bitcoin are the ones who are making bitcoin even more famous.
What is worrying is that when criticism no longer occurs, at that time we will not know where the shortcomings need to be corrected.

It is not surprising that many parties always see the bad side of bitcoin activities. If it doesn't work on one side, they will look for another side that can convince people that Bitcoin is really bad. The result is that more and more people want to adopt bitcoin.
Elon Musk has long said that there are other coins that are better than bitcoin. Others including many governments continue to reject and ban bitcoin. The result is that bitcoin is still there and activity continues without stopping.

The impact on the environment is greater from large companies that do not stop operating. It's not seen as it is seen by those who hate bitcoin would say bitcoin consumes too much energy.

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Clean energy bitcoin mining such as solar or wind power is now far more prevalent than in previous years probably due to the constant FUD & criticism by MSM. We even now have El Salvador using volcanic energy to mine. Clean energy mining aims to reduce the environmental impact of cryptocurrency mining which traditionally relied on fossil fuels which contributes to carbon emissions. Clean energy bitcoin mining helps mitigate the ecological footprint of the cryptocurrency industry making it more sustainable & aligned with the global transition towards renewable energy. By utilising clean energy sources it promotes a greener future & supports the development of sustainable technologies.

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Quote from: Helena Yu on September 18, 2023, 09:45:02 AM

When you want to talk about criticism toward Bitcoin, you need to deal with it by visiting this thread Knowledge to help you argue with bitcoin critics

Bitcoin mining do consume energy, but it's not big and they already use clean energy. Just close your eyes when institutional entity or someone that self pro claimed to be Bitcoin specialist talk about this particular thing.

They're trying to destroy Bitcoin, if they talk about mining consuming energy, money laundering, bubble/tulip mania, etc, they're uneducated people.

You're right, Helena. I believe in climate change so I think that it is necessary to make good decisions to stop our impact asap. But when pseudo-philantropists say that Bitcoin is bad because of all the things you mentioned, although those things are true to some extent, IMO they don't pose a great risk and, of course, the intrinsic benefits are much bigger. Cars pollute, banks and fiat are used for money laundering, but those are not, at least for now, reasonable reasons to stop using them. Bitcoin has minimal impact in comparison: why are these reasons good in this case, and not the others?

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Quote

This news will have a positive impact throughout the industry, and companies like Tesla are likely to come to the market again as, as Elon previously mentioned, Tesla will accept bitcoin when miners reach the 50% clean energy mark. This will be a major boost for the bitcoin industry.

Institutional investors are mostly concerned about the environmental impact of bitcoin mining. This opens a path for institutional investors to come onboard.

Do you really believe that Elon Musk is going to keep his promise about the "50% mining from clean energy"? I don't think so.
There's always something to criticize about Bitcoin/blockchain/BTC mining. First it was the "environmental pollution" coming from Bitcoin miners. As if all the banks and fiat payment system are using 100% clean energy. The fiat bank/payment systems use energy produced by coal power plants, but nobody is blaming them for this.
Other points where BTC can be criticized are the scalability issue and the volatile nature of Bitcoin. I'm sure that Tesla and the big institutional investors will refuse to buy BTC because of those two main issues of BTC.

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Quote from: DVlog on September 18, 2023, 07:45:37 AM

One of the biggest criticisms of bitcoin was its carbon emissions and its environmental impact. Elon and Tesla were at the forefront of this criticism. Despite this, Tesla held bitcoin but sold it to the market later on. This news will have a positive impact throughout the industry, and companies like Tesla are likely to come to the market again as, as Elon previously mentioned, Tesla will accept bitcoin when miners reach the 50% clean energy mark. This will be a major boost for the bitcoin industry.

Institutional investors are mostly concerned about the environmental impact of bitcoin mining. This opens a path for institutional investors to come onboard.

Environmental issues and the impact of bitcoin will always cause some misunderstandings. Looking back at all the criticism not only from Tesla or Elon Musk, we have also seen many similar debates. on one's own. Like raising cattle, it also produces tons of carbon emissions many times greater than modern industrial machinery, but do people really criticize it? I think everyone will figure it out for themselves get that story.

Regarding the fact that large organizations are interested in bitcoin in many different ways, the way they promote or limit it is similar to some people who want to manipulate prices to make profits in this market, even with Elon Musk whom I also quite like, but frankly his actions with bitcoin are just like someone who wants to redeem himself to gain profit through his own influence. So looking at the problem based on the information being spread, we don't really understand the nature and only like to judge, that is the way to direct the thinking of the crowd that influential people want to interfere with, and in the end it boils down to it is also only a small part compared to the development of bitcoin.

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Quote from: joniboini on September 18, 2023, 08:22:43 PM

Is there any government that is like that though? As far as I know, some governments who use renewable energy only supplies it in limited amount. At least in developing countries. I might be wrong but I remember reading news about how some miners are blocked by electricity companies even though they use wind to generate energy due to how demanding it is.

I guess miners who have the capital would rather build their own electricity supply instead of relying on government/centralized electricity companies that prioritize regular customers. Some miners might be able to claim that their activity is similar to other businesses, but then their profit might be affected too since their rates can be higher than the norm. CMIIW.

You are accurate in pointing out that governments in most of the developing countries have limited sources of renewable energy and their major reliance is on electricity generated by fossil material like furnace oil, liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) and electricity generated from major water dams. While, in contrast general public in many of these countries including my own, increasingly adopting solar energy system to reduce their energy expenses.

Therefore, obviously, crypto currencies miners will prefer to build their own sources of renewable energy to keep their operational cost minimum and maximize profitability.

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Quote from: Hispo on September 18, 2023, 07:50:32 PM

If a miner is connected to the grid and the grid is owner by a government who is ecologically conscious, then the miner may get into green energy without even noticing. (Hopefully they may not notice through an increase on their electricity bills an drop on profitability).

Is there any government that is like that though? As far as I know, some governments who use renewable energy only supplies it in limited amount. At least in developing countries. I might be wrong but I remember reading news about how some miners are blocked by electricity companies even though they use wind to generate energy due to how demanding it is.

I guess miners who have the capital would rather build their own electricity supply instead of relying on government/centralized electricity companies that prioritize regular customers. Some miners might be able to claim that their activity is similar to other businesses, but then their profit might be affected too since their rates can be higher than the norm. CMIIW.

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Bitcoin switching towards renewable energies may be inevitable in the end, don't you all think?
There have been jurisdictions which have Bitcoin mining, unless it is done using renewable energies and in general, as the world pushes towards replacing oil and gas as our main source of energy, then so also will Bitcoin.

If a miner is connected to the grid and the grid is owner by a government who is ecologically conscious, then the miner may get into green energy without even noticing. (Hopefully they may not notice through an increase on their electricity bills an drop on profitability).

Also, it is interesting to point out that since the most developed countries are the ones first trying to replace fossil fuels, then miners who can afford to may move to developing countries where fossil energy would become cheaper, thanks to the decrease on global demand.

Let us see what happens.

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Quote from: hugeblack on September 18, 2023, 01:18:17 PM

The criticism directed at Bitcoin is mostly for creating FUD and influencing speculators, so what is important is that this news that talks about 30%, 50%, or even 99% will not change the nature of mining or the price of Bitcoin.

Clean or not clean, in fact Bitcoin mining not completely clean but still cleaner and more sustainable than many industries, profit for Bitcoin miners and price of Bitcoin will depend on cost to mine each bitcoin by miners, supply and demand. It is for long term price but market is affected by liquidations on exchanges too. So weak downs or strong spikes are artificial prices by manipulations and liquidations. When Bitcoin is in stable price range, it is more accurately reflect its value.

Realized price is an interesting chart for investors with long term investment plans but of course it does not reflect initial cost of miners to mine each bitcoin.

Quote

For more than 5 years, I have been hearing about China’s ban on Bitcoin, including John McAfee, and now FUD has become clean energy. During this time, you will find positive or negative articles, many of which may be true or misleading, depending on who wants to move the price.

They did not fud other industries that have lower sustainable energy consumption but only aimed at Bitcoin mining and FUD it.

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Quote from: hugeblack on September 18, 2023, 01:18:17 PM

The criticism directed at Bitcoin is mostly for creating FUD and influencing speculators, so what is important is that this news that talks about 30%, 50%, or even 99% will not change the nature of mining or the price of Bitcoin.

For more than 5 years, I have been hearing about China’s ban on Bitcoin, including John McAfee, and now FUD has become clean energy. During this time, you will find positive or negative articles, many of which may be true or misleading, depending on who wants to move the price.

They have used several topics to spread FUD, but institutional investors are often subject to environmental, governance, and social mandates that force them to invest in sustainable sectors. Their main criticism was bitcoin mining and its carbon emissions. Now that miners are shifting to renewable energy sources to mine bitcoin, this institution can invest in bitcoin without any obligation from society.

Bitcoin mining can boost the development of the renewable energy sector as well by increasing its demand throughout the bitcoin mining sector.

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Quote from: hugeblack on September 18, 2023, 01:18:17 PM

The criticism directed at Bitcoin is mostly for creating FUD and influencing speculators, so what is important is that this news that talks about 30%, 50%, or even 99% will not change the nature of mining or the price of Bitcoin.

For more than 5 years, I have been hearing about China’s ban on Bitcoin, including John McAfee, and now FUD has become clean energy. During this time, you will find positive or negative articles, many of which may be true or misleading, depending on who wants to move the price.

I feel like Musk is very close to McAfee in the way he's hyping people and then backing out of it.
Just to compare: Musk said Tesla would be accepting bitcoin, then quickly stopped accepting it when Musk got his profits from selling some of his coins, then claimed it was due to lack of green energy mining and that Tesla would accept it again if it becomes 50% green. I'm willing to bet he's not going to accept it anyway, despite bitcoin reaching 50% renewable energy, just like McAfee did not eat his dick on live TV.
Musk is great at making false promises. His former wives and girlfriends have something to say about it.

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Quote from: DVlog on September 18, 2023, 07:45:37 AM

Quote

Bitcoin Mining and Clean Energy: Bloomberg Intelligence reported Bitcoin miners now meet the 50% clean energy threshold. Jamie Coutts shared the latest on X (formerly Twitter), saying, “The Bitcoin energy narrative is flipping! A new note out this morning on the Bloomberg Terminal looks at the rapid rise of sustainable energy sources in BTC mining.” In 2021, Elon Musk announced that Tesla (TLSA) would resume accepting BTC when miners reach the 50% clean energy threshold.

Genesis Ceases Crypto Trading Services: On Thursday, news hit the wires of Genesis halting crypto trading services permanently. Genesis previously announced the end of spot trading by September 30. Derivatives trading services will cease immediately.

SEC v Stoner Cats 2 Draws Condemnation: Stoner Cats 2 LLC became the latest victim of the SEC onslaught on the US digital asset space. The SEC announced charges against Stoner Cats 2 LLC for conducting an unregistered offering of crypto asset securities in the form of NFTs that raised $8 million to fund Stoner Cats, an animated web series. Ripple CLO Stuart Alderoty called out the SEC move. SEC Commissioners Hester Peirce and Mark Uyeda dissented.

Deutsche Bank Enters the Crypto Space in Earnest: German banking giant Deutsche Bank (DB) and Taurus SA announced a partnership to offer crypto and tokenized asset custody services to institutional clients. Deutsche Bank Global Head of Securities Services Paul Maley reportedly said, “As the digital asset space is expected to encompass trillions of dollars of assets, it’s bound to be seen as one of the priorities for investors and corporations alike.

Source: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/crypto-news:-clean-energy-bitcoin-mining-threshold-puts-elon-musk-and-tesla-in-focus

One of the biggest criticisms of bitcoin was its carbon emissions and its environmental impact. Elon and Tesla were at the forefront of this criticism. Despite this, Tesla held bitcoin but sold it to the market later on. This news will have a positive impact throughout the industry, and companies like Tesla are likely to come to the market again as, as Elon previously mentioned, Tesla will accept bitcoin when miners reach the 50% clean energy mark. This will be a major boost for the bitcoin industry.

Institutional investors are mostly concerned about the environmental impact of bitcoin mining. This opens a path for institutional investors to come onboard.

It's a bit of an illusion really and not one that most governments are going to fall for in terms of calling bitcoin "clean". The real calculation is whether Bitcoin is comparatively clean when being utilized in calculating sums in order to get "rewards" for a small group of people versus other potential uses of that energy. Would it be better if the energy from a hydroelectric dam is used to power 50,000 homes than a server farm mining bitcoin for the benefit of one person or company? The general public would definitely vote for the former over the latter if it was displayed in this way. If it energy costs ever shoot back up again, these sort of calculations will again be under the microscope and governments will not hesitate to ban this sort of energy usage, they will frame it as wasteful.

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The criticism directed at Bitcoin is mostly for creating FUD and influencing speculators, so what is important is that this news that talks about 30%, 50%, or even 99% will not change the nature of mining or the price of Bitcoin.

For more than 5 years, I have been hearing about China’s ban on Bitcoin, including John McAfee, and now FUD has become clean energy. During this time, you will find positive or negative articles, many of which may be true or misleading, depending on who wants to move the price.

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Quote from: DVlog on September 18, 2023, 09:35:48 AM

Quote from: Oshosondy on September 18, 2023, 08:01:03 AM

Bitcoin does not need Elon Musk. He should fuck off.

Elon Musk only manipulated for people to leave bitcoin for doge. That man will not accept bitcoin for anything, his mission is doge.

After he stopped payment for bitcoin, bitcoin still later increased and got to all-time-high.

What about Tesla? I do not like Elon because of his unpredictable nature, and he has made positive and negative statements in the past about bitcoin. I do not like any meme projects as well, but a car company like Tesla can be at the forefront of the bitcoin market in the future. They have a large user base and resources to accept bitcoin for their online payments.

We can't underestimate the Tesla and the users who use the Tesla cars but if the owner of the company is against Bitcoin then we should not expect anything good from a person like Elon Musk. His main hobby is to promote doge and earn huge amount of returns from his holdings and that's it. He isn't interested in Bitcoin anymore and that's why even if all Bitcoin miners use clean energy he will find another excuse to reject Bitcoin and support that meme coin Doge.

I know that there are so many users who basically are using Tesla cars and they can be very useful for Bitcoin if Elon adds it as a payment method, but even if he doesn't add it the Bitcoin won't get impacted at all. He loves Doge a lot that one day he may invest a lot of money into it to pump its price, and I'm sure he has such plans that he will execute during this bull run.

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Quote from: BIT-BENDER on September 18, 2023, 10:51:51 AM

Cars and industries are leading causes of the environmental hazards in the world today yet we still use cars and definitely use products made from industries in our day to day lives and we believe that Bitcoin mining all of a sudden is our main problem?

Bitcoin mining should not be the big headache to the world in terms of environmental issues although I encourage any alternative cleaner source of energy but Tesla not trying to contribute to the solution is cowardly seeing that they produce electric vehicles, it should be a collective effort because Bitcoin is for everyone and everyone would benefit from it's global adoption.

i believe, this dilemma has been highlighted by media. so they are just focusing on its negative impact to the surroundings. when in fact, there are so many industries that have more environmental concerns than this btc mining.
for sure, even if you show the stats, these media people won't acknowledge the truth. and do remember, media is one source of getting info by most people. not many are doing their job to learn the truth about such info.
well, a lot of crypto mining farms have the goal of using clean energy. so don't know if these people will still blame this type of mining later on.

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Quote from: DVlog on September 18, 2023, 09:35:48 AM

I do not like Elon because of his unpredictable nature, and he has made positive and negative statements in the past about bitcoin. I do not like any meme projects as well, but a car company like Tesla can be at the forefront of the bitcoin market in the future. They have a large user base and resources to accept bitcoin for their online payments.

I don't like Elon Musk either, but that unpredictableness that he possesses could actually make or break Bitcoin and he has done this several times.

But if we ask around if we still need Elon in our corner, I would say yes because his companies can complement what crypto is all about for example, SpaceX could easily adopt BTC as a currency for the future, or maybe make it possible for users to make subscriptions on X via btc ....the possibilities are just endless...

Quote from: Oshosondy on September 18, 2023, 08:01:03 AM

In 2019 report: Study: Over 74% of Bitcoin Mining is Powered by Renewable Energy
In 2020 report: Report: 76% crypto miners use renewables as part of their energy mix
2022 report: the Bitcoin mining network uses approximately 0.05% of the total energy consumed globally

These numbers are way above average Cool

, and am wondering why Musk went on a rampage citing several reasons why he was disowning Bitcoin

and went on with dropping it from its accepted modes of payment for his Tesla EVS & not forgetting the carbon footprint that comes from Bitcoin mining.

With the numbers looking green does this mean MUsk will be back with his crypto rants to push the market price up as he did when he did some damage during his time of attacking miners...

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Quote from: Oshosondy on September 18, 2023, 08:01:03 AM

In 2019 report: Study: Over 74% of Bitcoin Mining is Powered by Renewable Energy
In 2020 report: Report: 76% crypto miners use renewables as part of their energy mix
2022 report: the Bitcoin mining network uses approximately 0.05% of the total energy consumed globally

Bitcoin Mining Council has many reports.
Bitcoincleanup.com
End the energy fud against Bitcoin
Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index. Greenhouse gas emission.

Quote from: Oshosondy on September 18, 2023, 08:01:03 AM

Elon Musk only manipulated for people to leave bitcoin for doge. That man will not accept bitcoin for anything, his mission is doge.

After he stopped payment for bitcoin, bitcoin still later increased and got to all-time-high.

Elon Musk knows Dogecoin has smaller marketcap than Bitcoin. It is more centralized than Bitcoin so it more sensitively to be manipulated if he holds enough Dogecoin.

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elon loves DOGE(or thats what he wants the public to see)
funny part is doge is hobby mined by residents which means miners have no electric source control

bitcoin is majority asic farmed, in locations specifically chosen for the electricity source.

in short, bitcoin has always been cleaner than doge even before elon made his erroneous comments

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Quote from: DVlog on September 18, 2023, 07:45:37 AM

One of the biggest criticisms of bitcoin was its carbon emissions and its environmental impact. Elon and Tesla were at the forefront of this criticism. Despite this, Tesla held bitcoin but sold it to the market later on. This news will have a positive impact throughout the industry, and companies like Tesla are likely to come to the market again as, as Elon previously mentioned, Tesla will accept bitcoin when miners reach the 50% clean energy mark. This will be a major boost for the bitcoin industry.

Institutional investors are mostly concerned about the environmental impact of bitcoin mining. This opens a path for institutional investors to come onboard.

Everyday Elon wakes up and think what chaos can I cause in the cryptocurrency space. Well, gone are the days when his opinion on Bitcoin holds any water. Right now nobody gives two fucks about it. We in grown beyond his manipulation. There's already so much data on miners using solar energy, wind turbine, hydropower and other renewable sources of energy for mining and the impact on the environment is close to zero.

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Cars and industries are leading causes of the environmental hazards in the world today yet we still use cars and definitely use products made from industries in our day to day lives and we believe that Bitcoin mining all of a sudden is our main problem?

Bitcoin mining should not be the big headache to the world in terms of environmental issues although I encourage any alternative cleaner source of energy but Tesla not trying to contribute to the solution is cowardly seeing that they produce electric vehicles, it should be a collective effort because Bitcoin is for everyone and everyone would benefit from it's global adoption.

gunhell16

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Quote from: Oshosondy on September 18, 2023, 08:01:03 AM

In 2019 report: Study: Over 74% of Bitcoin Mining is Powered by Renewable Energy
In 2020 report: Report: 76% crypto miners use renewables as part of their energy mix
2022 report: the Bitcoin mining network uses approximately 0.05% of the total energy consumed globally

Quote from: DVlog on September 18, 2023, 07:45:37 AM

Elon and Tesla were at the forefront of this criticism. Despite this, Tesla held bitcoin but sold it to the market later on. This news will have a positive impact throughout the industry, and companies like Tesla are likely to come to the market again as, as Elon previously mentioned, Tesla will accept bitcoin when miners reach the 50% clean energy mark. This will be a major boost for the bitcoin industry.

Bitcoin does not need Elon Musk. He should fuck off.

Elon Musk only manipulated for people to leave bitcoin for doge. That man will not accept bitcoin for anything, his mission is doge.

After he stopped payment for bitcoin, bitcoin still later increased and got to all-time-high.

It's true, and I agree with what you said, dude. Elon Musk has nothing to do with raising the price of Bitcoin. He can have a positive impact, but not to the point where Bitcoin will be 100k each. Then another strategy of Elon Musk so that he can get a huge profit is always targeting the meme coins. Even though those coins are still shit, he knows that the market value will kick in.

Although he also holds Bitcoins, it is not insignificant that he holds more Dogecoin and Shiba Inu for sure; we just don't know if he is also planning to promote meme coins that are currently sleeping giants in the market.

But anyway, let's see and wait for the step he will take in that matter.

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Even without this report I already thought it was obvious BTC is a positive, because it can work anywhere. Power under transmission actually suffers quite severe losses, the big point to the idea of green energy that stops it being a working proposal is the infrastructure to transmit that power from remote areas to cities does not really exist in bulk. It will take a decade maybe several to put in all the power infrastructure required to get power from hydro power turbines on dams all the way to cities.
Ideally they can do some work today but the excess and waste is something Bitcoin can use right now, ironically its a positive work is locally able to use up that power and monetize it into a transmittable bits of value usable & reusable across the world by those working digitally.
Its always been a positive of BTC, people couldn't see it. China threw out BTC because it opposes free currency outside communism, they don't want free competition like that and we shouldn't be surprised. China did benefit from BTC because just like USA or similar giant sized countries with epic mountain ranges, hydro power comes from vast remote areas not near the coastal city centres; theres a natural gap and BTC helps bridge this distance without requiring ten years of building they can do it today.

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When you want to talk about criticism toward Bitcoin, you need to deal with it by visiting this thread Knowledge to help you argue with bitcoin critics

Bitcoin mining do consume energy, but it's not big and they already use clean energy. Just close your eyes when institutional entity or someone that self pro claimed to be Bitcoin specialist talk about this particular thing.

They're trying to destroy Bitcoin, if they talk about mining consuming energy, money laundering, bubble/tulip mania, etc, they're uneducated people.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on September 18, 2023, 08:01:03 AM

Bitcoin does not need Elon Musk. He should fuck off.

Elon Musk only manipulated for people to leave bitcoin for doge. That man will not accept bitcoin for anything, his mission is doge.

After he stopped payment for bitcoin, bitcoin still later increased and got to all-time-high.

I share the viewpoint that Elon Musk's involvement in crypto industry didn't make any substantial contribution for promotion and adoption of Bitcoin, instead, it seems he leveraged both popularity of Bitcoin and his own influential position to manipulate the price of Bitcoin for his personnel gains. However, the idea of using clean energy in Bitcoin mining is a promising development that aims to reduce the environmental impact of cryptocurrencies mining.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on September 18, 2023, 08:01:03 AM

Bitcoin does not need Elon Musk. He should fuck off.

Elon Musk only manipulated for people to leave bitcoin for doge. That man will not accept bitcoin for anything, his mission is doge.

After he stopped payment for bitcoin, bitcoin still later increased and got to all-time-high.

What about Tesla? I do not like Elon because of his unpredictable nature, and he has made positive and negative statements in the past about bitcoin. I do not like any meme projects as well, but a car company like Tesla can be at the forefront of the bitcoin market in the future. They have a large user base and resources to accept bitcoin for their online payments.

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In 2019 report: Study: Over 74% of Bitcoin Mining is Powered by Renewable Energy
In 2020 report: Report: 76% crypto miners use renewables as part of their energy mix
2022 report: the Bitcoin mining network uses approximately 0.05% of the total energy consumed globally

Quote from: DVlog on September 18, 2023, 07:45:37 AM

Elon and Tesla were at the forefront of this criticism. Despite this, Tesla held bitcoin but sold it to the market later on. This news will have a positive impact throughout the industry, and companies like Tesla are likely to come to the market again as, as Elon previously mentioned, Tesla will accept bitcoin when miners reach the 50% clean energy mark. This will be a major boost for the bitcoin industry.

Bitcoin does not need Elon Musk. He should fuck off.

Elon Musk only manipulated for people to leave bitcoin for doge. That man will not accept bitcoin for anything, his mission is doge.

After he stopped payment for bitcoin, bitcoin still later increased and got to all-time-high.

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Quote

Bitcoin Mining and Clean Energy: Bloomberg Intelligence reported Bitcoin miners now meet the 50% clean energy threshold. Jamie Coutts shared the latest on X (formerly Twitter), saying, “The Bitcoin energy narrative is flipping! A new note out this morning on the Bloomberg Terminal looks at the rapid rise of sustainable energy sources in BTC mining.” In 2021, Elon Musk announced that Tesla (TLSA) would resume accepting BTC when miners reach the 50% clean energy threshold.

Genesis Ceases Crypto Trading Services: On Thursday, news hit the wires of Genesis halting crypto trading services permanently. Genesis previously announced the end of spot trading by September 30. Derivatives trading services will cease immediately.

SEC v Stoner Cats 2 Draws Condemnation: Stoner Cats 2 LLC became the latest victim of the SEC onslaught on the US digital asset space. The SEC announced charges against Stoner Cats 2 LLC for conducting an unregistered offering of crypto asset securities in the form of NFTs that raised $8 million to fund Stoner Cats, an animated web series. Ripple CLO Stuart Alderoty called out the SEC move. SEC Commissioners Hester Peirce and Mark Uyeda dissented.

Deutsche Bank Enters the Crypto Space in Earnest: German banking giant Deutsche Bank (DB) and Taurus SA announced a partnership to offer crypto and tokenized asset custody services to institutional clients. Deutsche Bank Global Head of Securities Services Paul Maley reportedly said, “As the digital asset space is expected to encompass trillions of dollars of assets, it’s bound to be seen as one of the priorities for investors and corporations alike.

Source: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/crypto-news:-clean-energy-bitcoin-mining-threshold-puts-elon-musk-and-tesla-in-focus

One of the biggest criticisms of bitcoin was its carbon emissions and its environmental impact. Elon and Tesla were at the forefront of this criticism. Despite this, Tesla held bitcoin but sold it to the market later on. This news will have a positive impact throughout the industry, and companies like Tesla are likely to come to the market again as, as Elon previously mentioned, Tesla will accept bitcoin when miners reach the 50% clean energy mark. This will be a major boost for the bitcoin industry.

Institutional investors are mostly concerned about the environmental impact of bitcoin mining. This opens a path for institutional investors to come onboard.

Topic: Use of clean energy in bitcoin mining and its impact (Read 380 times)