Utility Uses of Bitcoin in General - page 3.

legiteum

member

Activity: 182

Merit: 47

Quote from: caroasi on August 19, 2024, 09:07:07 AM

Speculative investment would be someone buying Bitcoin for the explicit purpose of trying to get more value out than they put in when they trade later on. A store of value usage would be if someone just wanted to preserve their wealth, so they buy Bitcoin with intent to trade for similar value without the intention of relative appreciation of Bitcoin relative to other assets.

But there is absolutely no guarantee your wealth will be preserved with Bitcoin or any other investment instrument.

When you say, "investment XYZ will preserve my wealth", you are speculating that is the case since, not being God, you cannot predict the future.

No matter what, you are predicting the future: you are speculating on the future value of Bitcoin (or whatever investment). This is true for US dollars as well (if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice, etc.).

Quote

There is something fundamentally different about purchasing something to sell it for a higher price later on, as there is from purchasing something to sell it for an equal price later on.

There really isn't. Any professional investor views them as exactly the same, because they are.

For instance, perhaps many here believe that Bitcoin will preserve your wealth forever and ever--it will maintain its value or increase no matter what. Other people would point out that Bitcoin's value is extremely volatile and has dropped in value by 80% in the recent past, and may drop again and stay that way.

Some of those people may be right, and some of them may be wrong. Only God knows who. But both are speculating.

caroasi

member

Activity: 25

Merit: 0

Quote from: legiteum on August 17, 2024, 11:11:35 AM

"When your problem is a nail, every tool is a hammer."

This list looks fine, albeit somewhat redundant ("speculation instrument" and "store of value" amount to the same thing, etc.).

But the correct what to make a list like this is not, "what can Bitcoin do", but rather "what can Bitcoin do that nothing else can do".

For instance, while you can pay for a coffee at Starbucks with Bitcoin, why would you?. A plain old credit card would that job much better, and a high-speed digital currency like a Haypenny currency would be even better than that. A lot of the other features you mentioned can be handled better with other technologies as well.

So in short, you are asking a question in a way such that the answer is not helpful.

The correct question to ask is, "What are Bitcoin's unique features that allow it to do things better than existing alternatives". That list, you will probably notice, will be much shorter. Basically, Bitcoin's only unique competitive feature is its use as a speculation instrument that is safer (better governance) than other meme investment instruments--and Bitcoin's brand name itself.

Speculative investment would be someone buying Bitcoin for the explicit purpose of trying to get more value out than they put in when they trade later on. A store of value usage would be if someone just wanted to preserve their wealth, so they buy Bitcoin with intent to trade for similar value without the intention of relative appreciation of Bitcoin relative to other assets. There is something fundamentally different about purchasing something to sell it for a higher price later on, as there is from purchasing something to sell it for an equal price later on.

It seems in this thread some people are claiming that speculation is not a type of investment at all, though I would disagree with that definition. I think speculating is a type of investment. However, I don't think that buying something to trade it for equal value later is investing... the idea of investment is growth. I would call that saving but not investing.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 538

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Bitcoin can be used for many things depending on what the holder chooses to do with it. You can decide to give someone Bitcoin as a gift, which make it acceptable as a gift, you can use Bitcoin as a form of collateral to acquire loan and Bitcoin can be used by scammers to carry out their Shaddy activities. So, a Bitcoiner actually decides what he or she wants to do with their Bitcoin.

fuguebtc

hero member

Activity: 1960

Merit: 537

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: peter0425 on August 19, 2024, 12:51:01 AM

Quote from: caroasi on August 17, 2024, 09:28:58 AM

Do you think this list is in the correct order of most to least likely uses of Bitcoin? How would you rank or change this list?

Is there any study regarding how much people are using bitcoin for investing and for transactions? Due to its decentralization, it is difficult to come up with accurate numbers so we would not know for sure just how much are using bitcoin for this or that.

We all use it for different reasons depending on our needs. Some really do use it for transactions while some use it to hold and only plan on retrieving their funds when they are in retirement already.

It is true that everyone has different needs so they will use it according to their needs but you need to admit that most people use bitcoin as an investment more than any other use case . Right on this forum or other social networks...do you see how many threads talk about the use cases of bitcoin or do people mainly just discuss the price, volatility , and profitability of bitcoin? Or are you and your friend using bitcoin as an investment or do you just consider it a currency and don't care about its fluctuations?

Of course , you can both use bitcoin as an investment and turn it into a store of wealth, currency...you can combine but your priority is still investment , right? Bitcoin's volatility is a great gift so there's nothing wrong with people taking advantage of it to make a profit .

peter0425

sr. member

Activity: 2618

Merit: 439

Quote from: caroasi on August 17, 2024, 09:28:58 AM

Do you think this list is in the correct order of most to least likely uses of Bitcoin? How would you rank or change this list?

Is there any study regarding how much people are using bitcoin for investing and for transactions? Due to its decentralization, it is difficult to come up with accurate numbers so we would not know for sure just how much are using bitcoin for this or that.

We all use it for different reasons depending on our needs. Some really do use it for transactions while some use it to hold and only plan on retrieving their funds when they are in retirement already.

Yatsan

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1252

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: caroasi on August 17, 2024, 09:28:58 AM

1. Investing: Speculation on increased value and arbitrage.
2. Store of Value: No intent to sell at higher price or higher price after inflation accounted for.
3. Business contract payments including regular bill or invoice paying
4. Retail and service/virtual purchase transactions
5. Banking: Transmitting value overseas among different banking jurisdictions
6. Banking: Temporary holding for banking needs, or acquiring to sending money to others without a specific bill or retail transaction involved.
7. Tokenization of assets by tying Bitcoin ownership to ownership of another asset.
8. Public Statements using Bitcoin's comment feature.

Do you think this list is in the correct order of most to least likely uses of Bitcoin? How would you rank or change this list?

What can i say here, basing on current features and practical applications is that the use of Bitcoin can be reconfigured, definitely controversial if being the most common due to its popularity as a high-risk, high-reward asset and investing in Bitcoin to provide insights into value appreciation and arbitrage. Most people now recognize Bitcoin as a store of value, very much like "digital gold", where one holds it to preserve wealth from inflation. The next one is retail and services trade, where more and more merchants and websites selling goods started to adopt Bitcoin. Commercial contract payments, like regular fees and premiums, are less frequent in occurrence but still dominate. If there is a use case where Bitcoin shines, it would have to be in banking transfer of value and temporary storage of money. Asset tokenization is a new concept linking Bitcoin ownership to other assets and is possible but not widely adopted. In general, Bitcoin's speech in public discourse remains an inefficient tool for other use cases. This graph shows the current state of usage and prevalence of Bitcoin in the market.

PrivacyG

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 1873

Crypto Swap Exchange

No. The order is very subjective. For me, the best Utility of Bitcoin is definitely not the arbitrage and Investment but that I can use it to my liking and with out having to explain to anybody what, where from, how, why, when, to whom. Arbitrage is of course an advantage because after all our lives depend on Money but that is not the strongest point. The strongest points are still the ones it has been created for.

legiteum

member

Activity: 182

Merit: 47

Quote from: Saint-loup on August 18, 2024, 12:51:41 PM

A plain old credit card would do that job much better... if you have a credit card and a bank account.

94% of US adults have a bank account:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1386867/us-adults-with-bank-accounts/

I don't know what it is in other developed countries, but I suspect it's a similar number.

And I also suspect that easily 90% of the world's money is held in bank accounts, so the "don't have a bank account" market is an extreme niche.

And even more of a niche would be the intersection of, "has no bank account, but has consistent access to the Internet". We're talking a pretty small portion of the developed world here.

Quote

Besides that, when you say that speculation instrument and store of value amount to the same thing, they are the exact opposites for me, that's why I don't think one asset could be both of them. For me the store of value thing is a maximalist narrative. Such volatile asset can't be used like that, because its price needs to be the same or at least not lower than the price you bought it, once you need to use it.

There is absolutely no asset known to mankind that does not have the ability to diminish in value. If somebody says they asset will never ever diminish in value, they are lying to you because they cannot possibly know that.

Every asset you hold is a speculation instrument, and could go either up or down in value as compared to other instruments.

Some instruments are very volatile, historically, and some are more stable. But there is no magic force making them stay that way. There is no asset that you can just leave there "without thinking about it", as much as people wish there was.

Saint-loup

legendary

Activity: 2604

Merit: 2353

Quote from: legiteum on August 17, 2024, 11:11:35 AM

"When your problem is a nail, every tool is a hammer."

This list looks fine, albeit somewhat redundant ("speculation instrument" and "store of value" amount to the same thing, etc.).

But the correct what to make a list like this is not, "what can Bitcoin do", but rather "what can Bitcoin do that nothing else can do".

For instance, while you can pay for a coffee at Starbucks with Bitcoin, why would you?. A plain old credit card would that job much better, and a high-speed digital currency like a Haypenny currency would be even better than that. A lot of the other features you mentioned can be handled better with other technologies as well.

So in short, you are asking a question in a way such that the answer is not helpful.

The correct question to ask is, "What are Bitcoin's unique features that allow it to do things better than existing alternatives". That list, you will probably notice, will be much shorter. Basically, Bitcoin's only unique competitive feature is its use as a speculation instrument that is safer (better governance) than other meme investment instruments--and Bitcoin's brand name itself.

A plain old credit card would do that job much better... if you have a credit card and a bank account. Cryptos are the best solution against unbanking, so being able to pay goods and services without using a bank account and having to make a request to anyone to create a wallet is an important use case IMO. Besides that, when you say that speculation instrument and store of value amount to the same thing, they are the exact opposites for me, that's why I don't think one asset could be both of them. For me the store of value thing is a maximalist narrative. Such volatile asset can't be used like that, because its price needs to be the same or at least not lower than the price you bought it, once you need to use it.

SquirrelJulietGarden

hero member

Activity: 1442

Merit: 775

Quote from: caroasi on August 17, 2024, 09:28:58 AM

1. Investing: Speculation on increased value and arbitrage.

Investing is different than trading which includes arbitraging.

Quote

2. Store of Value: No intent to sell at higher price or higher price after inflation accounted for.

Bitcoin is actually inflationary, not deflationary like many people think it is. The good thing from Bitcoin is its inflationary decreases with time, and it can not be changed to be faster or slower by anyone. After 210,000 blocks, Bitcoin block subsidy will halve and it is coded in the Protocol.

How is the 21 million bitcoin cap defined and enforced

Quote

7. Tokenization of assets by tying Bitcoin ownership to ownership of another asset.

Bitcoin is Bitcoin and it does not need to be tokenized. There are tokenized Bitcoin tokens, Wrapped Bitcoin tokens but those tokens are not actual bitcoin.

If you want to own bitcoin, buy bitcoin. If you buy wrapped Bitcoin tokens, you don't have actual bitcoin and those tokens can lose in value if they fail to maintain their pegs to Bitcoin price.

legiteum

member

Activity: 182

Merit: 47

"When your problem is a nail, every tool is a hammer."

This list looks fine, albeit somewhat redundant ("speculation instrument" and "store of value" amount to the same thing, etc.).

But the correct what to make a list like this is not, "what can Bitcoin do", but rather "what can Bitcoin do that nothing else can do".

For instance, while you can pay for a coffee at Starbucks with Bitcoin, why would you?. A plain old credit card would that job much better, and a high-speed digital currency like a Haypenny currency would be even better than that. A lot of the other features you mentioned can be handled better with other technologies as well.

So in short, you are asking a question in a way such that the answer is not helpful.

The correct question to ask is, "What are Bitcoin's unique features that allow it to do things better than existing alternatives". That list, you will probably notice, will be much shorter. Basically, Bitcoin's only unique competitive feature is its use as a speculation instrument that is safer (better governance) than other meme investment instruments--and Bitcoin's brand name itself.

glendall

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1018

Buzz App - Spin wheel, farm rewards

There is no order in my opinion but all are true about the uses of Bitcoin in general, depending on each individual's point of view, their perspective on BTc itself.

caroasi

member

Activity: 25

Merit: 0

1. Investing: Speculation on increased value and arbitrage.
2. Store of Value: No intent to sell at higher price or higher price after inflation accounted for.
3. Business contract payments including regular bill or invoice paying
4. Retail and service/virtual purchase transactions
5. Banking: Transmitting value overseas among different banking jurisdictions
6. Banking: Temporary holding for banking needs, or acquiring to sending money to others without a specific bill or retail transaction involved.
7. Tokenization of assets by tying Bitcoin ownership to ownership of another asset.
8. Public Statements using Bitcoin's comment feature.

Do you think this list is in the correct order of most to least likely uses of Bitcoin? How would you rank or change this list?

Topic: Utility Uses of Bitcoin in General - page 3. (Read 538 times)