Vaccine Passports | Bitcointalksearch.org

Ultegra134

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Quote from: Tash on February 20, 2022, 11:52:46 AM

Quote from: Cnut237 on February 20, 2022, 09:00:21 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on February 19, 2022, 01:21:08 PM

If more variants will keep happening because of mutations, it means there's some human error in the vaccine or the boaster in the first place

As Ultegra134 said, this is not correct. Mutations always occur in any living thing, it's a result of copying errors during cell replication. Mutations can help the organism to survive, or hinder it, or neither. If a mutation helps the organism, then this causes the mutation to survive and pass to future generations - this is the 'natural selection' element of evolution.
Vaccines can't stop mutation, nor are they intended to. But vaccines do reduce the amount of mutation in the sense that they reduce the amount of virus in circulation, and so they reduce the amount of cell replication in total.

Quote from: suzanne5223 on February 19, 2022, 01:21:08 PM

if the vaccine or the boaster was indeed the solution to covid-19/omicron there's no reason for the vaccinated people to be afraid of the unvaxxed.

Vaccinated people aren't scared of the unvaxxed. The antipathy stems more from the unvaxxed appearing to have a very low level of empathy, because they are willing to spread the virus and infect others. I've compared it to drink-driving before, and I think the comparison is valid.

The only thing spreading around here is your lies.

Over 200 studies proof there is no such thing as a contagious virus.
https://lordchewy.medium.com/exposing-the-contagion-myth-bf47cf0e3aee

You never cease to amaze me, once again, as I've mentioned numerous times, you're posting an irrelevant article, from some random website which doesn't even function properly, which you didn't even bother to summarize yourself and present your arguments. What's the point of this article? You're not even bothering explaining yourself, why am I supposed to read an article, claiming that the Influenza virus doesn't exist, and that the Spanish Flu pandemic was just another hoax. It's ridiculous.

Tash

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Quote from: Cnut237 on February 20, 2022, 09:00:21 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on February 19, 2022, 01:21:08 PM

If more variants will keep happening because of mutations, it means there's some human error in the vaccine or the boaster in the first place

As Ultegra134 said, this is not correct. Mutations always occur in any living thing, it's a result of copying errors during cell replication. Mutations can help the organism to survive, or hinder it, or neither. If a mutation helps the organism, then this causes the mutation to survive and pass to future generations - this is the 'natural selection' element of evolution.
Vaccines can't stop mutation, nor are they intended to. But vaccines do reduce the amount of mutation in the sense that they reduce the amount of virus in circulation, and so they reduce the amount of cell replication in total.

Quote from: suzanne5223 on February 19, 2022, 01:21:08 PM

if the vaccine or the boaster was indeed the solution to covid-19/omicron there's no reason for the vaccinated people to be afraid of the unvaxxed.

Vaccinated people aren't scared of the unvaxxed. The antipathy stems more from the unvaxxed appearing to have a very low level of empathy, because they are willing to spread the virus and infect others. I've compared it to drink-driving before, and I think the comparison is valid.

The only thing spreading around here is your lies.

Over 200 studies proof there is no such thing as a contagious virus.
https://lordchewy.medium.com/exposing-the-contagion-myth-bf47cf0e3aee

Cnut237

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on February 19, 2022, 01:21:08 PM

If more variants will keep happening because of mutations, it means there's some human error in the vaccine or the boaster in the first place

As Ultegra134 said, this is not correct. Mutations always occur in any living thing, it's a result of copying errors during cell replication. Mutations can help the organism to survive, or hinder it, or neither. If a mutation helps the organism, then this causes the mutation to survive and pass to future generations - this is the 'natural selection' element of evolution.
Vaccines can't stop mutation, nor are they intended to. But vaccines do reduce the amount of mutation in the sense that they reduce the amount of virus in circulation, and so they reduce the amount of cell replication in total.

Quote from: suzanne5223 on February 19, 2022, 01:21:08 PM

if the vaccine or the boaster was indeed the solution to covid-19/omicron there's no reason for the vaccinated people to be afraid of the unvaxxed.

Vaccinated people aren't scared of the unvaxxed. The antipathy stems more from the unvaxxed appearing to have a very low level of empathy, because they are willing to spread the virus and infect others. I've compared it to drink-driving before, and I think the comparison is valid.

Ultegra134

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on February 19, 2022, 01:21:08 PM

Quote from: Zlantann on February 19, 2022, 02:24:50 AM

Quote from: Gyfts on February 09, 2022, 12:42:39 PM

Now that omicron spreads like wildfire, most rational countries have shot down the vaccine passport because they recognize that even vaccinated individuals spread the virus, and for those unvaccinated, natural immunity provides just as much protection, if not more.

More variants would keep emerging due to mutations. Then they would develop another boaster dose or a new vaccine.
Very soon we wouldn't need vaccine passports, the vaccination needle scars would be our pass.

If more variants will keep happening because of mutations, it means there's some human error in the vaccine or the boaster in the first place and if the vaccine or the boaster was indeed the solution to covid-19/omicron there's no reason for the vaccinated people to be afraid of the unvaxxed.
One thing I know is that there's more to this virus issue than we think and I don't trust the government about this issue.

You're wrong on this one, mutations are a process of viruses, they mutate in order to adapt to their surroundings, mutations cause viruses to better evade our immune system, treatments and even vaccines. Generally speaking, mutations help viruses survive, by acquiring traits that will assist them in their survival.

It's a normal process, let me remind you that the influenza virus, specifically the H1N1, which caused the Spanish Flu, still exists, due to mutations, introducing a new flu vaccine every year in order to cover such mutations.

suzanne5223

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Quote from: Zlantann on February 19, 2022, 02:24:50 AM

Quote from: Gyfts on February 09, 2022, 12:42:39 PM

Now that omicron spreads like wildfire, most rational countries have shot down the vaccine passport because they recognize that even vaccinated individuals spread the virus, and for those unvaccinated, natural immunity provides just as much protection, if not more.

More variants would keep emerging due to mutations. Then they would develop another boaster dose or a new vaccine.
Very soon we wouldn't need vaccine passports, the vaccination needle scars would be our pass.

If more variants will keep happening because of mutations, it means there's some human error in the vaccine or the boaster in the first place and if the vaccine or the boaster was indeed the solution to covid-19/omicron there's no reason for the vaccinated people to be afraid of the unvaxxed.
One thing I know is that there's more to this virus issue than we think and I don't trust the government about this issue.

passwordnow

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I don't like the idea of vaccine passports. It's like discriminating the unvax. I'm in favor of everything that's going to be favorable to the majority but this is going too much. They should still allow people even they don't have the vaccine to travel even without these vaccine passports. There are the tests and quarantine protocols that they can apply. Now, with the reopening of different countries for their entries. Those with vaccine passports are free to entry without those protocols, tests and quarantines. While the unvax, they're not allowed to travel for this measure. I hope with the reopening, more countries are going to be considerate as long as the health standards are applied. I'm for the equality and balance and I know that vaccines are helpful to avoid or make the infection less severe.

Zlantann

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Quote from: Gyfts on February 09, 2022, 12:42:39 PM

Now that omicron spreads like wildfire, most rational countries have shot down the vaccine passport because they recognize that even vaccinated individuals spread the virus, and for those unvaccinated, natural immunity provides just as much protection, if not more.

More variants would keep emerging due to mutations. Then they would develop another boaster dose or a new vaccine.
Very soon we wouldn't need vaccine passports, the vaccination needle scars would be our pass.

LTU_btc

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Slava Ukraini!

Quote from: Cnut237 on February 18, 2022, 11:46:39 AM

If you've had the vaccine, you are less likely to contract the virus, less likely to transmit it if you do contract it, and less likely to have severe symptoms. Protection is certainly not 100%, as you rightly point out, but it's significant and abundantly clear from the data.
The example from @coolcoinz needs to be considered in its context...

Yes, with vaccine you less likely to catch and spread virus and then get serious symptoms. But my point is that with omicron it's very likely catch virus, even if you're vaccinated. Even if you got booster, you're still very likely to catch virus. And no matter if you're vaccinated or not, if you got imicron, it's most likely that you won't have severe symptoms.
My point is that vaccine passports is pretty much pointless thing when so many vaccinated people getting infected and hospitals aren't getting filled. Do you think that UK and some EU contries mde mistake by canceling vaccine passports.

Ultegra134

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I don't support it, nor am I against it. On the one hand, vaccines do actually protect you from preventing infection, but up to a degree, this protection also wears out as time passes by. On the other hand, being vaccinated doesn't prove that you're virus free. I believe that the concept is accurate, but incorrectly implemented, people should be tested if they are vaccinated or not, especially when entering an enclosed space, however, rapid tests shouldn't be strictly directed for unvaccinated citizens, but for everyone, despite their vaccination status.

Rapid tests do prove if you're virus free, being vaccinated does not.

Gyfts

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Quote from: Cnut237 on February 16, 2022, 08:59:37 AM

...

That study is before omicron from August-September 2021.

There is more and more evidence that the transmission of omicron is independent of vaccination status, which further proves any mandates or passports are useless gesturing by politicians who want their constituents to believe they are following the science. I don't dispute that a vaccine is useful for preventing hospitalization and death, but only in those who are not previously immune. Natural immunity has by far been more robust than any vaccine has been able to offer.

Tash

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No, this paper shows you only have 7 booster shots, no pass as of yesterday you must have eight.

Cnut237

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Quote from: LTU_btc on February 16, 2022, 06:29:10 PM

Sorry, but it's nonsense. Vaccinated people still get infected and they also spread virus. Vaccinated people die too. With vaccine it's likely that you will have less serious symptoms, but nobody never said that vaccines gives 100% protection. I got infected having 2 jabs of vaccine.
How you would explain such big number of covid cases where 85%-90% of population is vaccinated. @coolcoinz gave example from specific country, you can check it out.

If you've had the vaccine, you are less likely to contract the virus, less likely to transmit it if you do contract it, and less likely to have severe symptoms. Protection is certainly not 100%, as you rightly point out, but it's significant and abundantly clear from the data.
The example from @coolcoinz needs to be considered in its context...

Quote from: coolcoinz on February 09, 2022, 08:15:50 PM

Here's some data from Austria:
99.2% vaccinated with 2 doses, 32,6k infections, around 20 deaths every day. Vaccinations are mandatory there, but when they were not, like in October, they were averaging at 10 deaths per day and only 2 in July.

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/austria/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/austria/

That doesn't say anything, though. The chart below is from your second link. Total cases now are vastly higher than they were in October. The difference looks to be roughly x10. So if we have x10 cases now, but only x2 deaths, then we might speculate that perhaps compulsory vaccination is having a beneficial effect.

cmg777

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I'm sure the FDA would be fans of said passport plus it would allow the government to create a new waste of fiat stamps "money" organization within the government:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.59265269

LTU_btc

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I'm not sure how seriously you can ask question whether you're fan of vaccine passports or no. We can argue whether it's needed measure or not, but I doubt that people with common sense will say that he is fan of vaccine passport.
Vaccine passport had divided our society so much like no other thing. Even pizza with pineapple isn't such contraversial question. As much as I don't like covid passports, it made sense to have it previously. But now when we have omicron, I think that such passports is pointless.
I'm happy that my country followed UK and some other countries example and stopped vaccine passports. Next step - it's time to finally get rid of masks, social distancing and similar stuff.

Quote from: Marvell1 on February 09, 2022, 01:49:28 AM

Who would have thought that this one virus could freeze the whole world?

The antidote is discovered after the coronavirus infection. It is mandatory for everyone to take this antidote. And the vaccine passport is a certificate of whether you are virus-free with two doses of the vaccine.

Personally, I like this concept. Because if you want to be safe, you must get vaccinated. And what is the proof that I have received the vaccine? The lockdown is weakening, the school and college are opening, and if anyone goes out without a vaccine, he or she will infect themselves and everyone around them. This vaccine passport is a safe haven to roam-free. Because if everyone gets vaccinated and everyone has a certificate, then there is no chance of spreading corona.

Sorry, but it's nonsense. Vaccinated people still get infected and they also spread virus. Vaccinated people die too. With vaccine it's likely that you will have less serious symptoms, but nobody never said that vaccines gives 100% protection. I got infected having 2 jabs of vaccine.
How you would explain such big number of covid cases where 85%-90% of population is vaccinated. @coolcoinz gave example from specific country, you can check it out.

Cnut237

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Quote from: libertasbella on February 14, 2022, 04:49:09 PM

Except vaccinated people do spread the virus.

It's a question of degree though, right? A lot of anti-vaxxers seem to see the world in absolutes, but reality is more nuanced than that. I've even heard (many times) the absurd argument that "vaccines aren't 100% effective, therefore we shouldn't use them".

Can vaccinated people spread the virus? Yes, of course. But they are far less likely to do so than unvaccinated people. Numerous studies have shown this.

Take this study as an example, which found that vaccinated people who are infected are 63% less likely to transmit the virus than an unvaccinated person who is infected.

But of course, the reduction is far more than 63%, because this just considers infected people, and the vaccines also reduce your chance of getting infected. This study takes both factors into account, and finds that people who are vaccinated are 88.5% less likely to transmit the virus.

Your argument would only be valid if vaccines both a) didn't reduce infection and also b) didn't reduce transmission. It fails on both counts.

libertasbella

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Quote from: Marvell1 on February 09, 2022, 01:49:28 AM

Who would have thought that this one virus could freeze the whole world?

The antidote is discovered after the coronavirus infection. It is mandatory for everyone to take this antidote. And the vaccine passport is a certificate of whether you are virus-free with two doses of the vaccine.

Personally, I like this concept. Because if you want to be safe, you must get vaccinated. And what is the proof that I have received the vaccine? The lockdown is weakening, the school and college are opening, and if anyone goes out without a vaccine, he or she will infect themselves and everyone around them. This vaccine passport is a safe haven to roam-free. Because if everyone gets vaccinated and everyone has a certificate, then there is no chance of spreading corona.

Except vaccinated people do spread the virus.

Dunamisx

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Quote from: D-law on February 07, 2022, 06:39:07 PM

Are you a fan of this passports for vaccination ?
What are the good and bad sides of it ?
Folk's seems not to be much of a big fan to this, how much more should they be in the comfort of their homes as a result of Covid ?
I think coming together can be the best way to stop the government, and them selfish plans.

What you think bout this!

It is obvious now that most government involved activities and private sectors now require the vaccination passport before one can be attended to which shouldn't be, i see vaccination as an optionto either be accepted or if wish left with negligence as individuals will be responsible for the choice made.

cabron

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The vaccine didn't make Trudeau immune. Considering that Justin Trudeau is vaccinated and boosted already yet after it he still got infected by covid, people don't know who to believe anymore but Joe Rogan. Everyone is already messed up in the head after 2 years of the virus.

If the vaccine could just help us, it could make people decide to get vaccinated. Everyone wants to go back to normal, no doubt.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: Marvell1 on February 09, 2022, 01:49:28 AM

The antidote is discovered after the coronavirus infection. It is mandatory for everyone to take this antidote. And the vaccine passport is a certificate of whether you are virus-free with two doses of the vaccine.

It does not prove that you are free of the virus! The vaccine doesn't make you immune. You are still going to contract it with or without the vaccine. What it does is helps you fight the virus once you're infected and your chances of dying are much lower. Just read about the situation in Israel. Almost whole population is vaccinated and people still get sick, just like in any other place in the world, so a piece of paper showing that you're vaccinated doesn't mean you're not a carrier.

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Personally, I like this concept. Because if you want to be safe, you must get vaccinated.

Wrong again. You get vaccinated when you want to increase your chances against the virus. It doesn't make you safe!

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And what is the proof that I have received the vaccine?

Here's the thing, you shouldn't need one. It should be your personal choice, just like when you're sick, you can take a painkiller or not. It's up to you if you choose the hard or the easy way, how well you cope with the pain, if you're allergic, and so on.

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The lockdown is weakening, the school and college are opening, and if anyone goes out without a vaccine, he or she will infect themselves and everyone around them.

It's not how it works.

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This vaccine passport is a safe haven to roam-free. Because if everyone gets vaccinated and everyone has a certificate, then there is no chance of spreading corona.

Here's some data from Austria:
99.2% vaccinated with 2 doses, 32,6k infections, around 20 deaths every day. Vaccinations are mandatory there, but when they were not, like in October, they were averaging at 10 deaths per day and only 2 in July.

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/austria/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/austria/

Mometaskers

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We have it in my country and I don't agree with it. It's anti-poor. We had less say about this, we don't have to option to not get vaxxed since they take public transport and can't find a job that don't require them to travel. My cousin works at a mall and he'd obviously lose his job if he refuse it, for example. Even if they don't require it for work, he wouldn't be able to commute.

I even remember seeing on TV a middle-aged woman who allowed herself to be taken away by the city government because she lacked that passport and taken to a vaccination center. She said that it's better she got "arrested" because she couldn't take the vaxx herself because she lack the resource to go online and book the appointment.

Quote from: Marvell1 on February 09, 2022, 01:49:28 AM

Who would have thought that this one virus could freeze the whole world?

The antidote is discovered after the coronavirus infection. It is mandatory for everyone to take this antidote. And the vaccine passport is a certificate of whether you are virus-free with two doses of the vaccine.

More like it's a cash and power grab. We've entered a new medieval era.

Topic: Vaccine Passports (Read 234 times)