Topic: Vanity address mining - How to pool work? (Read 2902 times)

Bit of a necro there.

it's highly unlikely customers who pay for a vanity address would also be interested doing something so sophisticated for a relatively small gain

I don't know too much about database operations, but I can help design infrastructure for backend communications, whatever language you need. I'd really recommend that work requestors use the same elliptic pair, as all of their requests could be mined simultaneously, by the way.

But yeah, I can help with whatever, more once school starts back up in august.

Sorry, I don't seem to be getting notifications from the forum these days, so I didn't see your reply. What kind of stuff would you be interested in helping with? Design? Backend? DB? The site is Python/Flask/MongoDB. The biggest thing to figure out right now is how to restructure the DB for pooled work. I have a basic idea down for using user accounts for requestors (each account maintaining a balance to pay PPS rewards, spread over all outstanding requests from a given user). Miners don't need accounts, but I'd like to copy the Eligius model to let a miner view some stats for a given payout address. I'd also like to get a nice API up.

Structuring the DB will be a task we would need to do together, but either of the other two things could be tasks you could mostly take on yourself. Interested?

Thanks!

I'm still happy to collaborate. just tell me what you need.

A side note, I am still working on this project, albeit slowly. If there is anyone that would like to collaborate on it, please let me know!

Why would it be faster to generate?

The easiest is just shorter matches.  The "difficulty target" is effectively , next character.

So,

{1MyAD, 9} would mean that you need to get MyAD as the first 4 characters and the 5th has to be less than 9. 

That gives you reasonable steps in share target.

Btw, what is the calculation for difficulty of the solution?  I assumed (58)^(character), but that doesn't seem to give the right answer.

You definitely should include an extra private key for the pool.  That way the address only has value if you have all 3 pieces (and only the owner will have all 3), but the miner cannot bypass the pool.

I still think proportional is fine for proxied work. Not a huge risk.

You're going to be mining for compressed addresses, right?
Uncompressed are outdated.

Ah, you're talking about proxying the work and turning it into PPS. This is an interesting idea, but would be extremely risky for me. I would have to pay for each share submitted, but could potentially never get paid myself. I could remove the risk by logging shares, then paying out proportionally instead of PPS. Either way, I think I'll save these ideas to possibly be implemented further down the line.

You would have to swap the payout address for your own, to distribute the PPS. Basically, your site would submit a getwork to the workboard, take those results and perform the modular multiplication on the provided Public addresses. Your miners see the work in their pull and get the tier 2 public key. Then, when they get a result, they send it to you. You recombine the tier 2 private key with the submitted key, verify the work, and pass that public/private key back to the original board with your address. That address gets payment, 0.5% is shunted out for the server and the rest distributed by the share scheme. Just post solved work on the site and be transparent. Easy as pie.

Thanks for testing!

I worry that proxying work from other pools could potentially get me in trouble. If the work is proxied, I will be receiving the full solution and, in theory, could swap the payout address for my own. The reason I worry about this is that the other pool operator could essentially frame me by doing this themselves if they see the solution came from my end. I would have no way to prove to the miner that I didn't do this. If there was some way to protect from this, I'd gladly do it but I don't see a solution at this point.

Anyway, the real goal is to get PPS working so that this is the first truly pooled vanity address site. Another thing on my wishlist is some client side javascript for the user to generate ECDSA keypairs and combine private key solutions.

I'm hoping to get all that worked out in the next few weeks. If anyone would like to contribute to the javascript part, I'd love to work out a partnership!

I mined on it for a short bit the last few minutes, and it received the work alright.

Were you planning on pulling work from the other pools?

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this. I really appreciate your help! It looks to me like PPS is the way to go, and I'm starting to figure out how to implement it. It will take some time.

If anyone's curious, the alpha version of the site is up. This is without PPS, so it's not too exciting for now. I'd appreciate any feedback, though. Thanks!

http://vanityamp.com

PPS sounds fine to me, as well, since this is a work-until-found job rather than a competitive time sensitive problem. Honestly, a proportional payout would put less risk on the pool, but would be prone to hoppers mining for the first little while on an address.

You can ensure that work is delivered to the pool if found by running a second mod add or multiply on the public key before passing it to the miners. This makes the private key found useless unless first doctored by the pool server.

Using the same second hash for every identical public hash submitted would allow for parallel mining of any addresses submitted by the same person.

Instead of feeding the private key generator random data, you could pass it a incrementing position along the sequence of possible inputs. This would allow you to space miners apart to prevent any possible overlap in mining. Having the client return a current point every time it checks for updated work would allow a database of all searched values. This would aid in calculating odds of finding and general statistic keeping.

I've been dissecting vanitygen over the last week to understand it. I believe most of these things can be added without much trouble.

With the existing vanity pool, neither the customer nor the pool operator bear much risk.  The risk belongs to the vanity pool miners who may toil for no reward or who may get a lucky break and a big reward.  The goal of your project, as I understand it, is to reduce the risk to the vanity pool miners.  You've done enough math on the forums and on your own Web Site I'm sure you understand the risks that a Poison Distribution brings to a PPS pool operator.  If you can handle the risks, I agree that PPS does make the most sense.

Another option is to shift the risk to the customer requesting the vanity address.  When the customer's funding is exhausted, miners won't work on the customer's vanity address until more funding arrives.  If a miner finds the solution early, you would refund the unused funding to the customer.  Other variants might be to allow your customer to specify both the total funding and a fixed PPS or to specify total funding and PPS as a fraction of remaining funding.

I hope you *do* allow pattern-hopping.  My version of the vanity mining client is customized in several ways.  One customization is that I will not submit work that I consider to be too cheap.  Even if one customer with a common public partial key has a collection of work that can be performed simultaneously, if the value of certain vanity addresses within the collection is *too* cheap, I won't submit those.  (I'd rather pour out my milk than sell it at a price that's too low.)  In turn, I evaluate the value of the collection of work differently than the standard miner evaluates the collection of work.  Thus, my preferred pattern is often not the same as the standard miner's preferred pattern.

If you implement PPS and pay as shares are discovered, you could probably implement your project with no changes to the existing vanity mining protocol.  Just make sure your site offers shares (5- or 6-character shares, perhaps) to any oclvanityminer who comes knocking.  For transparency, your Web Site should show the true (7- or 8-character) vanity address being requested along with total funding, and PPS formula.  But the mining client only *needs* to know what it will be paid for.

Since vanity pools work by either adding or multiplying two public keys, the person who wants an address will submit some random public key of his to the website and his desired pattern. Then you send this public key and the miners will generate other random public/private keypairs and multiply/add the two public keys to see if it creates an address that matches the desired one.

No doubt during this process there will be partial matches like:
1MyADDY
1MyAdDy
1myaddy

This will be your proof-of-work. And all will be valid, because there is no way to cheat here when you add the two public keys.

Very good points about the refunding. Duly noted. And definitely crucial to check for duplicates! I hadn't actually thought of that yet...

The point about requestors going straight to the miners to receive a partial match is avoided with fpgaminer's idea to add a second key to the original one, as long as those keys is kept secret from the other parties. Not totally sure if that's possible, though.

As I see it, PPS makes the most sense because old, unlucky work will essentially be getting less and less valuable to work on as partial matches rack up. This will turn into "pattern hopping," although I think I could partially avoid that server side (not allow miners to submit matches for just any pattern...). That doesn't really jive with my idea of this as a free market place though. The point is that requestors can set any price they want, and miners only have to work on it if they think the reward/difficulty is high enough.

With PPS, we can have the requestor lose N*PPS if they cancel after N shares have been submitted.

Thanks for the ideas!

I will happily use compressed keys, but hopefully someone else will help with implementing this in vanitygen. I think someone already did, actually, just not in the main repo. Obviously, it will also need changes in the pool protocol and partial match handling, so that's a bit of work as it is. Samr7 has been afk for a few months, so hopefully he pops up again and can at least provide some advice as I make these changes.

A client asks for an 8-character vanity address, knowing the cost is too high.  After one (or more) 7-character partial matches have been found, the client cancels their request.  Now what?

Maybe the client wanted a 7-character address in the first place.  Depending what information is public, the client may have their 7-character address for free, and neither you nor the miners get anything.

Maybe the client wanted a 7-character address in the first place.  Even if partial matches are secret, a miner who found a 7-character partial match may negotiate with the original client for the 7-character match.  Neither you nor the other miners get anything.

I would suggest that a refund should deduct *something* related to the value of work done so far.  The deduction to be paid to the miners for work already performed.

If you choose a sophisticated pool payout method, like those used by some Bitcoin mining pools, where payouts may carry over from one block to the next, then the algorithms must be adapted (significantly) for this project.  Unlike Bitcoin mining, where every block reward is the same and difficulty changes modestly every couple of weeks, each and every Vanity job payout is different and the difficulty may vary by orders of magnitude from one job to the next.  Further complication is that two (or more) Vanity jobs may be in progress at the same time.

You may have to develop your own payout scheme that will lure vanity miners whether a job is new or old, even if "luck" (as used by some Bitcoin mining pools) is bad.  The fluctuations you can withstand (PPS) and fees you charge will have a big say in choosing payout schemes that are mutually beneficial to both you and the miners.

Also, I don't see any need for the server to generate the random starting point in the ECDSA keyspace.  The mining client chooses their own starting point, and the probability of overlap (with a fair client) is negligible.  To avoid cheating, you should keep the partial matches and don't award credit for duplicate matches.

It sounds like an interesting project!