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Topic: Vanity Pool - vanity address generator pool - page 23. (Read 148044 times)

sr. member
Activity: 454
Merit: 252
December 03, 2012, 08:46:20 PM
Correct, namecoin addresses have a network byte of 52, just as bitcoin addresses have a network byte of 0, that was just a demonstration that it's not that vanitygen won't give that prefix, just that it isn't possible with that network byte.

Got it: so the allowable namecoin addresses start with:
N1, N2, N3, N4, N5, N6, N7, N8, N9, NA, NB, NC, ND, NE, NF, NG, NH, NJ, NK, Mv, Mw, Mx, My, Mz

Maybe VanityPool can have some logic in there to prevent someone from requesting an invalid address.

Maybe the person requesting NPhaux would be willing to get N1Phaux.
./vanitygen -N N1Phaux
Difficulty: 15318045009
full member
Activity: 125
Merit: 100
December 03, 2012, 01:49:46 PM
Apparently that isn't an actual, valid namecoin address:

Code:
$ namecoind validateaddress NPhauxDmxGJfKSAJmAnZBLH9mhrKY5BALv
{
    "isvalid" : false
}

I'm guessing you're only allowed to use 52 as a leading byte. ThePiachu should probably cancel that work and refund the bounty.

Correct, namecoin addresses have a network byte of 52, just as bitcoin addresses have a network byte of 0, that was just a demonstration that it's not that vanitygen won't give that prefix, just that it isn't possible with that network byte.
hero member
Activity: 720
Merit: 528
December 03, 2012, 01:11:40 PM
On another note, why oh why do you multiply the value by 2^32 to get "lavishness?" As I tried to plead before, the terms "difficulty" and "value" are perfectly applicable here, and are an established convention in vanitygen. Furthermore, value, as defined in vanitygen, is a meaningful quantity: reward / key. A user can take this number and multiply it by their key/s rate and figure out their expected reward. Multiplying by 2^32 just makes it that much harder for the user. Creating some new, arbitrary units when there are perfectly good ones already is almost a sin in the scientific community. Of course, if you can justify the creation of some new units, fine, but I don't see the justification for these ones.

Hmm, I suppose lavishness if useful when determining the mining ratio. From my FAQ page:

MR = L * (d/r) * (k/m) = 2^32 * (b/c) * (d/r) * (k/m)

(b/c) is as you said, value of the address. If you want to compare that to how much you would earn by mining blocks, you would have to multiply that by 2^32 * (d/r) * (k/m), which can be quite complex. Value would be a really small number, 2^32 is a really large number, and the other two are somewhere in between. If, however, you would take Lavishness, it would give most parts of the equation values that can be understood by people.

I suppose I should start using the Value once GPU mining stops becoming a thing and nobody will be comparing the two.

As for the complexity and bounty instead of difficulty and reward - I mainly use it to distinguish between key mining and block mining. I use "bounty", because people are setting their bounties for solving their work. Complexity I use because it is a bit of a different thing. Difficulty is an arbitrary construct in itself - a ratio of the maximum Target (2^32) to the current Target. So when talking about creating blocks we should be using Target at all times, but we don't, as the values are really big. To get the number of hashes required to solve a block of given Difficulty (well, at 50% chance), you need to multiply it by 2^32. Alternatively, we could be using Difficulty and shares per second as the mining speed, but shares are also a construct brought about by the pools and are arbitrary (not all of them need to be ~~Difficulty 1). In Complexity, it's the actual number of keys you need to generate in order to have a 50% chance of solving the work.

Sorry for taking so long to get back about this.

I understand what you're going for, but I think you're adding unnecessary confusion. You are correct that bitcoin difficulty itself is a sort of arbitrary number since it has to be multiplied by 2^32 to be meaningful. This is because the difficulty convention was established long ago to express difficulty as a multiple of the minimum difficulty (which is 2^32 - 1). The true difficulty is currently 3438908.9601591383 * (2^32 - 1) (the average number of hashes needed to find one under the target). In my opinion, this is an unfortunate convention, but we can't do anything about it now.

Unfortunately, you just created another arbitrary number (lavishness) by introducing this factor of 2^32 unnecessarily. It's not too late to fix it, though, since this is all new! If we wait too long though, this convention will be established and we'll all be stuck with it. Vanitygen tells you the difficulty of a pattern as the average number of keys required to find a match. This is the true difficulty, since it tells you how much work needs to be done before you will complete the goal.

Based on that, value is always a meaningful number, since it is reward / difficulty. In the case of block mining, we need to multiply the "difficulty" by 2^32 to get the real difficulty, but for address mining we don't need to do anything special. The user can simply look at the number of keys generated per second by their hardware and know exactly how much they expect to earn. If you introduce "lavishness," they need to divide by 2^32.

To sum it up, here's what I would suggest for the terms:

Bitcoin mining:
Reward: 25 | units: BTC
"Difficulty": 3438908.9601591383 | units: hashes / (2^32 - 1)
Difficulty (actual): 14770001514365957 | units: hashes
Value: Reward / Difficulty | units: BTC / hash

Address mining:
Reward: bounty for pattern | units: BTC
Difficulty: Pattern difficulty as reported by vanitygen | units: keys
Value: Reward / Difficulty | units: BTC / key

It's unfortunate that the 2^32 is stuck in the bitcoin difficulty, but it would only make it worse to stick a new one in the value calculation for address mining, as you propose:

Vanitypool address mining (current definitions):
Bounty: bounty for pattern | units: BTC
Complexity: Pattern difficulty as reported by vanitygen | units: keys
Lavishness: 2^32 * Bounty / Complexity | units: BTC / key * 2^32

At the very least, I ask that you put that 2^32 in the same place as in bitcoin mining, so that they remain analogous to each other (although I would prefer skipping it entirely).
hero member
Activity: 720
Merit: 528
December 03, 2012, 12:48:21 PM
Perhaps the NPhaux currently listed as available work on vanitypool website is not a valid namecoin address?

This seems to be the case. I checked the Namecoin block explorer and couldn't find any addresses started with the combinations above, NP doesn't seem to be a valid start to a namecoin address.

ThePiachu, can you remove it from available work?

According to my work checker NPhaux is only a valid prefix with a network byte of 53, and it does seem to solve that way:

Code:
mskwik@mskwik ~/script/bitcoin/vanitygen $ ./oclvanitygen -X 53 -p 0 -P 0435518A6E54753DF8397AD915EBB5449026EE170481C65FB515D8D2015DC80EC9EF401771BAE9F6278A474C03F23978BCB0A54E5211612029115277C5B5549781 NPhaux
Pattern: NPhaux
Address: NPhauxDmxGJfKSAJmAnZBLH9mhrKY5BALv
Privkey: 75y4T2rk3nbUipwcMzmeUcwwEzy3fhgdhvWVf6DhRM6CR9jWnSp

Looks like a bug in the input verification for the pool server.

Apparently that isn't an actual, valid namecoin address:

Code:
$ namecoind validateaddress NPhauxDmxGJfKSAJmAnZBLH9mhrKY5BALv
{
    "isvalid" : false
}

I'm guessing you're only allowed to use 52 as a leading byte. ThePiachu should probably cancel that work and refund the bounty.
full member
Activity: 125
Merit: 100
December 03, 2012, 11:15:25 AM
Perhaps the NPhaux currently listed as available work on vanitypool website is not a valid namecoin address?

This seems to be the case. I checked the Namecoin block explorer and couldn't find any addresses started with the combinations above, NP doesn't seem to be a valid start to a namecoin address.

ThePiachu, can you remove it from available work?

According to my work checker NPhaux is only a valid prefix with a network byte of 53, and it does seem to solve that way:

Code:
mskwik@mskwik ~/script/bitcoin/vanitygen $ ./oclvanitygen -X 53 -p 0 -P 0435518A6E54753DF8397AD915EBB5449026EE170481C65FB515D8D2015DC80EC9EF401771BAE9F6278A474C03F23978BCB0A54E5211612029115277C5B5549781 NPhaux
Pattern: NPhaux
Address: NPhauxDmxGJfKSAJmAnZBLH9mhrKY5BALv
Privkey: 75y4T2rk3nbUipwcMzmeUcwwEzy3fhgdhvWVf6DhRM6CR9jWnSp

Looks like a bug in the input verification for the pool server.
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
December 03, 2012, 09:58:29 AM
Update from the vanitygen posts:
Something might be wrong in vanitygen, the following (namecoin) combinations don't work:
Na, Nb, Nc, Nd, Ne, Nf, Ng, Nh, Ni, Nj, Nk, Nm, Nn, No, Np, Nq, Nr, Ns, Nt, Nu, Nv, Nw, Nx, Ny, Nz, NL, NM, NN, NP, NQ, NR, NS, NT, NU, NV, NW, NX, NY, NZ

but the rest do - this is probably a bug in vanitygen, i'll report it


Is there any update on this bug? Vanitygen won't generate addresses that start with the combinations listed above.

I don't know that it's a bug, more likely that there are no possible values of raw binary Namecoin addresses that will convert into a Base58 address that starts with these characters. The underlying data of a Namecoin address must start with a network ID of 00110100 (binary) + hash. This means that the range of inputs to the Base58 converter can only go from 0011010000000000... to 0011010011111111...

You can search or explore the namecoin block explorer and likely see that there are no examples of these "nonworking" addresses, a less lazy person than me could actually do the math and describe the possible Base58 address ranges.


Perhaps the NPhaux currently listed as available work on vanitypool website is not a valid namecoin address?

This seems to be the case. I checked the Namecoin block explorer and couldn't find any addresses started with the combinations above, NP doesn't seem to be a valid start to a namecoin address.

ThePiachu, can you remove it from available work?
sr. member
Activity: 454
Merit: 252
December 02, 2012, 09:49:35 PM
Update from the vanitygen posts:
Something might be wrong in vanitygen, the following (namecoin) combinations don't work:
Na, Nb, Nc, Nd, Ne, Nf, Ng, Nh, Ni, Nj, Nk, Nm, Nn, No, Np, Nq, Nr, Ns, Nt, Nu, Nv, Nw, Nx, Ny, Nz, NL, NM, NN, NP, NQ, NR, NS, NT, NU, NV, NW, NX, NY, NZ

but the rest do - this is probably a bug in vanitygen, i'll report it


Is there any update on this bug? Vanitygen won't generate addresses that start with the combinations listed above.

I don't know that it's a bug, more likely that there are no possible values of raw binary Namecoin addresses that will convert into a Base58 address that starts with these characters. The underlying data of a Namecoin address must start with a network ID of 00110100 (binary) + hash. This means that the range of inputs to the Base58 converter can only go from 0011010000000000... to 0011010011111111...

You can search or explore the namecoin block explorer and likely see that there are no examples of these "nonworking" addresses, a less lazy person than me could actually do the math and describe the possible Base58 address ranges.


Perhaps the NPhaux currently listed as available work on vanitypool website is not a valid namecoin address?
sr. member
Activity: 454
Merit: 252
November 30, 2012, 04:25:18 PM
Quote

sorry ThePiachu - i quoted the wrong text so my comment made no sense! I'm submitting an issue to samr7, just wanted to tell sangaman that it is a bug in vanitygen, not in vanitypool.
sr. member
Activity: 444
Merit: 313
November 30, 2012, 04:15:26 PM
Something might be wrong in vanitygen, the following combinations don't work:
Na, Nb, Nc, Nd, Ne, Nf, Ng, Nh, Ni, Nj, Nk, Nm, Nn, No, Np, Nq, Nr, Ns, Nt, Nu, Nv, Nw, Nx, Ny, Nz, NL, NM, NN, NP, NQ, NR, NS, NT, NU, NV, NW, NX, NY, NZ

but the rest do


Well, Vanitygen is a software created by samr7 - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/vanitygen-vanity-bitcoin-address-generatorminer-v022-25804 .
sr. member
Activity: 454
Merit: 252
November 30, 2012, 03:57:06 PM
Using vanitygen, vanitygen64, or oclvanitygen, I get an error saying something like "valid namecoin addresses start with M or N" when I try NP followed by anything. However if I just try N, M, or N followed by a few random keys I tried (like 1 and x I think along with a few others) I can generate a Namecoin address. Using oclvanityminer doesn't even attempt to mine the namecoin address at all it seems.

Mining something that's 7812 times as profitable as regular bitcoin mining is turning out to be too good to be true.

Something might be wrong in vanitygen, the following combinations don't work:
Na, Nb, Nc, Nd, Ne, Nf, Ng, Nh, Ni, Nj, Nk, Nm, Nn, No, Np, Nq, Nr, Ns, Nt, Nu, Nv, Nw, Nx, Ny, Nz, NL, NM, NN, NP, NQ, NR, NS, NT, NU, NV, NW, NX, NY, NZ

but the rest do - this is probably a bug in vanitygen, i'll report it

Code:
for charact in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
do
./vanitygen -N N$charact 2>> test.txt
done
newbie
Activity: 49
Merit: 0
November 30, 2012, 05:56:39 AM
Is there any way to know how much effort is being exerted by the pooled vanity-address-miners (in Mkey/sec) in total? For example, is there any way to know if the current target (JohnGALT) will get solved sooner or later, or if my efforts are contributing in any meaningful way compared to the whole?

I would love to see a little bit of text on the mining pool page saying "
  • miners connected for [y] Mkey/s", so I could know (out of curiosity) if I'm the only one working on the pool at the moment, or if there are hundreds of folks.

Cheers

I'm working at 19 - 20 Mkey/sec Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 444
Merit: 313
November 24, 2012, 02:51:25 PM
Is there any way to know how much effort is being exerted by the pooled vanity-address-miners (in Mkey/sec) in total? For example, is there any way to know if the current target (JohnGALT) will get solved sooner or later, or if my efforts are contributing in any meaningful way compared to the whole?

I would love to see a little bit of text on the mining pool page saying "
  • miners connected for [y] Mkey/s", so I could know (out of curiosity) if I'm the only one working on the pool at the moment, or if there are hundreds of folks.

Cheers

I will look into incorporating that metric in when I will switch over from simple http requests to JSON RPC. For now, I know that there are miners constantly checking for work, but I am not able to determine the speed.

Any contribution to the pool is meaningful. If you are mining at a profit to yourself and that profit is higher than mining for blocks, everyone is benefiting.
newbie
Activity: 52
Merit: 0
November 24, 2012, 01:39:47 PM
Is there any way to know how much effort is being exerted by the pooled vanity-address-miners (in Mkey/sec) in total? For example, is there any way to know if the current target (JohnGALT) will get solved sooner or later, or if my efforts are contributing in any meaningful way compared to the whole?

I would love to see a little bit of text on the mining pool page saying "
  • miners connected for [y] Mkey/s", so I could know (out of curiosity) if I'm the only one working on the pool at the moment, or if there are hundreds of folks.

Cheers
sr. member
Activity: 444
Merit: 313
November 24, 2012, 04:44:59 AM
ThePiachu, how are you calculating "complexity?" Did you write some tool of your own to do this?
Yes, it's a part of my Vanity Pool webapp. I consulted with samr7 on the subjct of how the initial character (after net byte) affects the final result (See here http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/3858/323).
On another note, why oh why do you multiply the value by 2^32 to get "lavishness?" As I tried to plead before, the terms "difficulty" and "value" are perfectly applicable here, and are an established convention in vanitygen. Furthermore, value, as defined in vanitygen, is a meaningful quantity: reward / key. A user can take this number and multiply it by their key/s rate and figure out their expected reward. Multiplying by 2^32 just makes it that much harder for the user. Creating some new, arbitrary units when there are perfectly good ones already is almost a sin in the scientific community. Of course, if you can justify the creation of some new units, fine, but I don't see the justification for these ones.

Hmm, I suppose lavishness if useful when determining the mining ratio. From my FAQ page:

MR = L * (d/r) * (k/m) = 2^32 * (b/c) * (d/r) * (k/m)

(b/c) is as you said, value of the address. If you want to compare that to how much you would earn by mining blocks, you would have to multiply that by 2^32 * (d/r) * (k/m), which can be quite complex. Value would be a really small number, 2^32 is a really large number, and the other two are somewhere in between. If, however, you would take Lavishness, it would give most parts of the equation values that can be understood by people.

I suppose I should start using the Value once GPU mining stops becoming a thing and nobody will be comparing the two.

As for the complexity and bounty instead of difficulty and reward - I mainly use it to distinguish between key mining and block mining. I use "bounty", because people are setting their bounties for solving their work. Complexity I use because it is a bit of a different thing. Difficulty is an arbitrary construct in itself - a ratio of the maximum Target (2^32) to the current Target. So when talking about creating blocks we should be using Target at all times, but we don't, as the values are really big. To get the number of hashes required to solve a block of given Difficulty (well, at 50% chance), you need to multiply it by 2^32. Alternatively, we could be using Difficulty and shares per second as the mining speed, but shares are also a construct brought about by the pools and are arbitrary (not all of them need to be ~~Difficulty 1). In Complexity, it's the actual number of keys you need to generate in order to have a 50% chance of solving the work.
hero member
Activity: 720
Merit: 528
November 23, 2012, 02:35:44 PM
At least oclvanityminer doesn't recognize it (it isn't in the list of minable adresses it dumps when I use it).

http://fizzisist.com/mining-value/api/vanitypool-value doesn't seem to like it (in fact I was made aware of this address pattern when I found out that vanitypool-value was not available anymore).

Thanks for the heads up. Unfortunately, I can't figure out what's going wrong here. Initially, I thought it was just that bkkcoins' vanitycalc module doesn't accept namecoin addresses, but I modified it just now and it still doesn't like 'NPhaux' with addrtype = 52. Since the vanitycalc module is a python wrapper for the difficulty checker in vanitygen, I think this is an issue with vanitygen. Or, NPhaux isn't a valid namecoin prefix (although I don't see why not).

ThePiachu, how are you calculating "complexity?" Did you write some tool of your own to do this? On another note, why oh why do you multiply the value by 2^32 to get "lavishness?" As I tried to plead before, the terms "difficulty" and "value" are perfectly applicable here, and are an established convention in vanitygen. Furthermore, value, as defined in vanitygen, is a meaningful quantity: reward / key. A user can take this number and multiply it by their key/s rate and figure out their expected reward. Multiplying by 2^32 just makes it that much harder for the user. Creating some new, arbitrary units when there are perfectly good ones already is almost a sin in the scientific community. Of course, if you can justify the creation of some new units, fine, but I don't see the justification for these ones.
sr. member
Activity: 444
Merit: 313
November 23, 2012, 07:05:14 AM
currently when I start the miner, it says: 0.000008 BTC/Gkey.

using the 16MKey/s my lowly card puts out, I get: 0.000008 * 0.016*60*60*24 = 0.011 BTC/day

comparing that to 0.0896 BTC/day (300 MHash/s) traditional mining it looks to me vanity mining is currently 11% as profitable as traditionl mining.

Am I making some mistake?

This ->

At least oclvanityminer doesn't recognize it (it isn't in the list of minable adresses it dumps when I use it).
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
November 23, 2012, 06:20:33 AM
Mining something that's 7812 times as profitable as regular bitcoin mining is turning out to be too good to be true.

how do you come up with that number?

From Pool's main page. I calculate the mining ratio with equations that can be found here:

https://vanitypool.appspot.com/faq

currently when I start the miner, it says: 0.000008 BTC/Gkey.

using the 16MKey/s my lowly card puts out, I get: 0.000008 * 0.016*60*60*24 = 0.011 BTC/day

comparing that to 0.0896 BTC/day (300 MHash/s) traditional mining it looks to me vanity mining is currently 11% as profitable as traditionl mining.

Am I making some mistake?
sr. member
Activity: 444
Merit: 313
November 23, 2012, 05:35:53 AM
Mining something that's 7812 times as profitable as regular bitcoin mining is turning out to be too good to be true.

how do you come up with that number?

From Pool's main page. I calculate the mining ratio with equations that can be found here:

https://vanitypool.appspot.com/faq
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
November 23, 2012, 05:30:09 AM
Mining something that's 7812 times as profitable as regular bitcoin mining is turning out to be too good to be true.

how do you come up with that number?
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
November 23, 2012, 12:39:20 AM
Using vanitygen, vanitygen64, or oclvanitygen, I get an error saying something like "valid namecoin addresses start with M or N" when I try NP followed by anything. However if I just try N, M, or N followed by a few random keys I tried (like 1 and x I think along with a few others) I can generate a Namecoin address. Using oclvanityminer doesn't even attempt to mine the namecoin address at all it seems.

Mining something that's 7812 times as profitable as regular bitcoin mining is turning out to be too good to be true.
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