Verification of identity compulsory on transactions over $1000 - page 2.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 14, 2019, 11:53:47 PM

Quote from: Pipdips on June 13, 2019, 09:57:11 AM

There will probably be more orders for $999.99.

Exactly. What prevents someone who sends $2,500 to somewhere to split that amount to 5 equal parts?

i haven't read the draft yet but lawmakers usually account for this. for instance, under american law, what you're describing is a crime called "structuring" or "smurfing". here's what the IRS has to say about it: https://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-026-013

basically, if you conduct transactions (in any amount) for the purpose of evading CTR reporting ($10k threshold) then you are guilty of structuring.

i would be very, very surprised if the FATF magically forgets to establish similar recommendations.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Pipdips on June 13, 2019, 09:57:11 AM

There will probably be more orders for $999.99.

Exactly. What prevents someone who sends $2,500 to somewhere to split that amount to 5 equal parts? One disadvantage may be the slight increase in the transaction fee, but I am OK with paying $15 instead of $3 as long as the coins reach the intended recipient. Why the authorities are so obsessed with the small fish, when most of the money laundering is being done by the banks such as HSBC? An example here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hsbc-probe/hsbc-to-pay-1-9-billion-u-s-fine-in-money-laundering-case-idUSBRE8BA05M20121211

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: seoincorporation on June 14, 2019, 11:23:19 AM

Damn, i just realized my country is on the list of countries affected for this, at it sucks hard. How can they claim $1k is money laundering? like if $1k were a big amount of money, you can't even buy a car with that, so that amount is ridiculous.

the entire world is affected, basically. there may be a period of time (a couple years maybe) where non-compliant exchanges can keep hiding out in the seychelles, hong kong, BVI, and such places. but eventually these jurisdictions will force them out when they are faced with the FATF blacklist.

the only countries that continue to tolerate remaining on the blacklist are places like iran and north korea.

the $1k threshold is pretty upsetting. even in the USA the AML reporting threshold for financial institutions is $10k. that would never be an issue for me. but $1k? such a low threshold will affect most little crypto investors across the world!

Tylev

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Quote from: tsaroz on June 13, 2019, 09:51:42 AM

Financial Action Task Force on Money Laundering (FATF), a global organiztion working to prevent Money Laundering is enforcing a law for any exchange or services to ask for full identity verification for anyone who transacts over $1000 at once. Rules made by FATF are obligatory.

Here's a TNW's article explaining it
https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/06/12/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-fatf-regulation/

The rules state that KYC checks should be carried out for those who not only send a cryptocurrency amount in excess of $ 1,000, but also who receive that amount. This means that if we, at ICO signature companies, receive a reward of over a thousand dollars, we will be forced to undergo a KYC check. At the same time, ace, who receive less than a thousand dollars, will be exempt from the need to undergo such testing. The bad news is that the KYC check will be legitimized for ICO bounty campaign participants after the end of the ICO, when the steaks and the amount of tokens paid are calculated. However, it seems to me that now we are rarely paid amounts in excess of a thousand dollars.

Pumared

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Quote from: jhonjhon on June 14, 2019, 09:28:55 PM

Quote from: Pipdips on June 13, 2019, 09:57:11 AM

There will probably be more orders for $999.99.

I know right, lol. People can always find ways to get away with it, but on the other hand it could be good to avoid fraud and to ensure that the person receiving the $1000 is legit and the true owner. Though this can be very annoying because normally identity verification can be very complicated at times.

Whether it be by delay of acceptance, or by identification, security, and so on. Only those who want to withdraw values greater than 1k dollars, or at least one account that has frequent withdrawals, will be taxed. These yes, deserve to be identified for being suspicious, No user earned their coins by publicizing projects.

jhonjhon

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Quote from: Pipdips on June 13, 2019, 09:57:11 AM

There will probably be more orders for $999.99.

I know right, lol. People can always find ways to get away with it, but on the other hand it could be good to avoid fraud and to ensure that the person receiving the $1000 is legit and the true owner. Though this can be very annoying because normally identity verification can be very complicated at times.

mk4

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Quote from: seoincorporation on June 14, 2019, 11:23:19 AM

Damn, i just realized my country is on the list of countries affected for this, at it sucks hard. How can they claim $1k is money laundering? like if $1k were a big amount of money, you can't even buy a car with that, so that amount is ridiculous. But they are who decide the rules of the game, so, get ready to see things getting fucked up.

In the case of most exchanges without KYC/AML like Binance, you can take advantage of this by simply creating multiple accounts. While you can say that $1000 is a small amount to launder money, you can do it multiple times with multiple accounts, increasing the numbers significantly.

jjbanks994

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the number definitely seems low to me but I doubt anyone will be watching closely unless shifts of this transaction happen frequently.

ioanbtc

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This is it, where i can find a list of countries who are affected by this? And if i have 1000$ ~ Ethereum or Bitcoin on hardware wallet should i do kyc only to exchange i send or also for hardware wallet?

seoincorporation

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 13, 2019, 06:35:45 PM

Quote from: seoincorporation on June 13, 2019, 04:35:58 PM

obligatory for who? I don't think that applies to all the countries in the world. I never heard about FATF before, so they should only apply for USA or for some European countries...

Obligatory for everyone, apparently. Here's an article from Bloomberg that gives a bit more relevant information:

Damn, i just realized my country is on the list of countries affected for this, at it sucks hard. How can they claim $1k is money laundering? like if $1k were a big amount of money, you can't even buy a car with that, so that amount is ridiculous. But they are who decide the rules of the game, so, get ready to see things getting fucked up.

phamminhtan

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sooner or later this will happen, because it is necessary but only for honest people, and money laundering criminals will find a way to circumvent the law easily.

pundit

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Money laundering was also done when there was no online transaction, people find many ways to it. Carrying and delivering hard cash is very common method of money laundering. Blockchain technology may be like "ice on the cake" for people doing money laundering as funds can be transferred across the border without any limitations and there is no any transaction record for it. It may be a good step of verifying identity to stop such transactions but it is very difficult to stop money laundering. Some smart and concrete ways are the demand of the hour to stop it.

john_nautica

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Quote from: tsaroz on June 13, 2019, 09:51:42 AM

Financial Action Task Force on Money Laundering (FATF), a global organiztion working to prevent Money Laundering is enforcing a law for any exchange or services to ask for full identity verification for anyone who transacts over $1000 at once. Rules made by FATF are obligatory.

Here's a TNW's article explaining it
https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/06/12/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-fatf-regulation/

I think the FATF policy for a nominal value of $ 1000 is still relatively low, should at least $ 10000 be used as a reference for money laundering cases so I think the $ 1000 money must still be assessed for money to do identity verification

Linkkoin

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Quote from: Csergejs on June 14, 2019, 08:01:14 AM

Not sure how can this be applied to crypto - since people just wont exchange money to fiat on online exchanges and just use wallets that dont require KYC and DEX and then just take their cash offline via localbitcoins

LocalBitcoins removed face to face exchange option, as well as they introduced KYC. Although some of the users disagree with our statement above, for the regulators a wallet will be regarded in the same way as a bank account - you need to verify yourself to open a bank account (you can open one only with ID).

Csergejs

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Not sure how can this be applied to crypto - since people just wont exchange money to fiat on online exchanges and just use wallets that dont require KYC and DEX and then just take their cash offline via localbitcoins

mk4

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Quote from: Leonardo7 on June 14, 2019, 01:50:44 AM

I think the popular blockchain wallet had seen this coming before now and they had to give out $25 worth of stellar to their customers to complete KYC in other not to lose customers. Someone had pointed out that a higher power was pushing blockchain to do so. I don't understand how this will go but technology I believe will find its way around this proposed regulation.

The Blockchain.com wallet's KYC isn't mandatory though? You only need to complete the KYC/AML requirements if you want the "free" XLM airdrop. I'm pretty sure you're free to use the Blockchain.com wallet without submitting KYC requirements.

aad140386

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I think that this tendency will only strengthen, and in the next 1-3 years this procedure of verification of identity will appear on all major exchanges. Government regulators will put pressure on exchanges so that exchanges disclose customer data and actively work with regulatory authorities. And they can be understood, because in fact it can be stolen money or money from the sale of drugs. Imagine that someone has robbed you and then transferred the money to Bitcoins without any problems and the rest of life rests with impunity somewhere on the islands. Is it normal?

michellee

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$1000 is not too big depends on how much people will withdraw their money because when the market is increasing, people can withdraw more than $1000. Maybe they need to increase the amount for $10k, so they can get the name from each exchange and they can ask the person on where he transfers the money. Money laundering is the big problem that is happening in many countries, and that will be a hard thing to do to prevent money laundering is happen.

Leonardo7

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I think the popular blockchain wallet had seen this coming before now and they had to give out $25 worth of stellar to their customers to complete KYC in other not to lose customers. Someone had pointed out that a higher power was pushing blockchain to do so. I don't understand how this will go but technology I believe will find its way around this proposed regulation.

Kakmakr

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Quote from: Linkkoin on June 13, 2019, 12:03:21 PM

Quote from: ralle14 on June 13, 2019, 11:56:43 AM

After a few seconds, the value of those orders suddenly becomes $1000 because of the volatility. Tongue

$950 it is.

There are no need to go to extremes like that, just spread your transactions over several exchanges and do multiple small transactions if you need to shift a lot of money. Roll Eyes

I have money in several different exchanges for trading purposes because you need to act quickly with buy & sell orders. People tend to over react on news like this, but most regulated exchanges are fully KYC/AML compliant in any way. Roll Eyes

Sit back, relax and just use decentralized exchanges and OTC platforms and Person2Person trades. Roll Eyes

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