Veritas Escrow Service / MultiSig m-of-n tx support [BTC/LTC/PPC/NVC/42]

Serge V.

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Quote from: dooglus on December 28, 2015, 06:09:55 PM

OK, so that gives you a way of 2 people safely transacting without the need of any escrow. Very nice.

There's still a slight issue:

The buyer locks up twice as much as the seller. If I pose as a seller when I have no intention of selling, I can get you to lock up 2 BTC of your funds while only locking up 1 BTC of mine. As soon as you lock up your 2 BTC I tell you I'm a scammer, and that I need a 50/50 split to release the coins. You have to choose between getting back 1.5 BTC or nothing. Which would you choose?

Maybe some people would sacrifice the 1.5 BTC just so the scammer takes a loss. But I expect most people would agree to the 50/50 split because it's in their own best interest.

Before a purchase people look for the best seller with a good trading history. So the seller is risked not only 1 BTC, but also his reputation which worth more than a single purchase. Also, he can't know exactly what kind of buyer he will get, because when people are going to buy something they usually not spend the last money, and I'm sure, most of them, when got a chance, will prefer to punish the scammer and leave him without reputation and money.

dooglus

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Quote from: Serge V. on December 28, 2015, 05:14:20 PM

This scheme was modified, but I have not edited this post (will do it soon). Actually, step 2 and 3 was combined in one, so the buyer and seller funds are sent to the MultiSig address at the same time and in the same transaction.

OK, so that gives you a way of 2 people safely transacting without the need of any escrow. Very nice.

There's still a slight issue:

The buyer locks up twice as much as the seller. If I pose as a seller when I have no intention of selling, I can get you to lock up 2 BTC of your funds while only locking up 1 BTC of mine. As soon as you lock up your 2 BTC I tell you I'm a scammer, and that I need a 50/50 split to release the coins. You have to choose between getting back 1.5 BTC or nothing. Which would you choose?

Maybe some people would sacrifice the 1.5 BTC just so the scammer takes a loss. But I expect most people would agree to the 50/50 split because it's in their own best interest.

Serge V.

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Activity: 98

Merit: 10

https://keybase.io/serge_v

Thank you for your reply, your opinion is appreciated.

Quote from: dooglus on December 28, 2015, 04:41:23 PM

My first question to this would be why we need an escrow agent at all in this scheme. He has no power and doesn't do anything that the buyer or seller couldn't do.

You doesn't, if you are capable to perform such transaction (this will be great).

Quote from: dooglus on December 28, 2015, 04:41:23 PM

My second question is what happens if the seller is a scammer, and doesn't send any coins in step 3? The buyer has just lost 2x his coins and has no chance of getting them back if the scammer doesn't cooperate. The scammer can make a transaction paying 1.9x coins to himself and 0.1x coins to the buyer. The buyer has to choose between signing the transaction and getting 0.1x coins back or not signing it and getting 0 coins back.

This scheme was modified, but I have not edited this post (done). Actually, step 2 and 3 was combined in one, so the buyer and seller funds are sent to the MultiSig address at the same time and in the same transaction.

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

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Quote from: Serge V. on January 14, 2015, 08:21:30 AM

Reliable purchase/sell (also applicable for accounts) escrow scheme in which seller and buyer can't have any motivation to cheat each other (tested on DOGE):

1. Escrow agent creates 2-of-2 MultiSig address from Buyer and Seller pubkeys.
2. Buyer sends 2x coins to MultiSig address (buyer collateral + buyer payment for goods).
3. Seller sends 1x coins to MultiSig address (seller collateral).
4. Seller sends goods to buyer.
5. Buyer receives the goods and informs the escrow agent.
6. Escrow agent prepares 1x coins tx from MultiSig address to buyer (buyer collateral) and 2x coins to seller (seller collateral + buyer payment for goods).
7. Buyer and seller checks and signs tx, 1x coins goes back to buyer and 2x coins goes to seller.

Seller is interested to send the goods to buyer because he can lose an amount equal to value of the goods.
Buyer is interested to release the funds after getting the goods, otherwise he can lose an amount equal to value of the goods.
Collateral will encourage both sides to be honest, and if something happens with the parcel to conduct a thorough investigation and find consensus.

My first question to this would be why we need an escrow agent at all in this scheme. He has no power and doesn't do anything that the buyer or seller couldn't do.

My second question is what happens if the seller is a scammer, and doesn't send any coins in step 3? The buyer has just lost 2x his coins and has no chance of getting them back if the scammer doesn't cooperate. The scammer can make a transaction paying 1.9x coins to himself and 0.1x coins to the buyer. The buyer has to choose between signing the transaction and getting 0.1x coins back or not signing it and getting 0 coins back.

Serge V.

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Activity: 98

Merit: 10

https://keybase.io/serge_v

Quote from: Whitehouse on September 15, 2015, 08:43:26 AM

Stimulate lol. With that logic bribes are only used to stimulate or encourage a party too. Whether you want to admit it or not this is clearly trust farming and offering encouragement to leave feedback in exchange for discounts. A person of your rank shouldn't be offering escrow services either regardless if its multisig or not.

1. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9805541
2. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10036121

P.S. The high trust score needed only for admirers of regular escrows... And there is no more discounts, this period is over.

Whitehouse

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Quote from: Serge V. on May 28, 2015, 03:51:36 PM

Quote from: AccTraderALT on May 27, 2015, 08:32:22 PM

yes, this is similar to buying trust ratings basically..

No, this will only stimulate parties to leave feedback (positive or not). This is more fair and more difficult for escrow agent than earning trust when making regular trading... And of course, I will make chargeback only to the address involved in escrow or person must be able to sign a message with it.

Stimulate lol. With that logic bribes are only used to stimulate or encourage a party too. Whether you want to admit it or not this is clearly trust farming and offering encouragement to leave feedback in exchange for discounts. A person of your rank shouldn't be offering escrow services either regardless if its multisig or not.

Serge V.

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Activity: 98

Merit: 10

https://keybase.io/serge_v

Some changes:
DOGE support suspended, NVC support added. From now, 2nd agent don't have a separate key, he will only keep a copy of my key.

AccTraderALT

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Serge V. on May 28, 2015, 03:51:36 PM

Quote from: AccTraderALT on May 27, 2015, 08:32:22 PM

yes, this is similar to buying trust ratings basically..

No, this will only stimulate parties to leave feedback (positive or not). This is more fair and more difficult for escrow agent than earning trust when making regular trading... And of course, I will make chargeback only to the address involved in escrow or person must be able to sign a message with it.

imho the only way to truly earn trust is to do good deeds, be trustworthy and just wait for the ratinmgs to come in naturually..

Serge V.

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Activity: 98

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https://keybase.io/serge_v

Quote from: AccTraderALT on May 27, 2015, 08:32:22 PM

yes, this is similar to buying trust ratings basically..

No, this will only stimulate parties to leave feedback (positive or not). This is more fair and more difficult for escrow agent than earning trust when making regular trading... And of course, I will make chargeback only to the address involved in escrow or person must be able to sign a message with it.

AccTraderALT

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Zeroxal on May 27, 2015, 03:10:11 PM

Quote from: Serge V. on March 05, 2015, 01:15:19 PM

Quote from: Skyripper on March 05, 2015, 01:02:30 PM

Quote

3. The current FEE is 1% but I will return it if You leave feedback (half to buyer, half to seller), so it can be totally free.

So, if only me will leave you feedback, the fee will be 0.5%?

Yes. And if your friend will leave feedback sometime in future, I will give another 0.5%.

This looks like feedback trading for me.

yes, this is similar to buying trust ratings basically..

u should not do this as it is frowned upon in this community to openly "buy" trust

Zeroxal

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Quote from: Serge V. on March 05, 2015, 01:15:19 PM

Quote from: Skyripper on March 05, 2015, 01:02:30 PM

Quote

3. The current FEE is 1% but I will return it if You leave feedback (half to buyer, half to seller), so it can be totally free.

So, if only me will leave you feedback, the fee will be 0.5%?

Yes. And if your friend will leave feedback sometime in future, I will give another 0.5%.

This looks like feedback trading for me.

Serge V.

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Activity: 98

Merit: 10

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For security reason PGP support added.

Serge V.

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Activity: 98

Merit: 10

https://keybase.io/serge_v

Trade safely, use MultiSig!

Serge V.

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Activity: 98

Merit: 10

https://keybase.io/serge_v

Quote from: Skyripper on March 10, 2015, 09:15:37 AM

We just finalized my first 2-of-2 multisig escrow, everything turned out! Thank you for teaching me this simple method, I'm going to use it for my trades instead of third party escrow services.

Thank You for feedback. If You will need my support or have any questions, feel free to ask.

Skyripper

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Activity: 51

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We just finalized my first 2-of-2 multisig escrow, everything turned out! Thank you for teaching me this simple method, I'm going to use it for my trades instead of third party escrow services.

Serge V.

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Activity: 98

Merit: 10

https://keybase.io/serge_v

Quote from: Skyripper on March 05, 2015, 01:21:05 PM

Discussing with my partner, we did not find any problem to use 2-of-2 multisig escrow, only that he don't have an account here.

No problem, contact me via Tox (both of you) to discuss entire process.

Skyripper

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Activity: 51

Merit: 1

Discussing with my partner, we did not find any problem to use 2-of-2 multisig escrow, only that he don't have an account here.

Serge V.

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

https://keybase.io/serge_v

Quote from: Skyripper on March 05, 2015, 01:02:30 PM

Quote

3. The current FEE is 1% but I will return it if You leave feedback (half to buyer, half to seller), so it can be totally free.

So, if only me will leave you feedback, the fee will be 0.5%?

Yes. And if your friend will leave feedback sometime in future, I will give another 0.5%.

Skyripper

jr. member

Activity: 51

Merit: 1

Quote

3. The current FEE is 1% but I will return it if You leave feedback (half to buyer, half to seller), so it can be totally free.

So, if only me will leave you feedback, the fee will be 0.5%?

Serge V.

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

https://keybase.io/serge_v

Quote from: Quickseller on March 05, 2015, 12:19:30 PM

Yes it is most likely a scam. If you send money to an address provided by this person then you will likely never see your money again. I can help you. I will send you a PM.

I will not provide any address to Skyripper, it will be generated automatically from buyer and seller pubkeys: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10174049.

Skyripper, be careful with Quickseller, check his reputation at first!

Topic: Veritas Escrow Service / MultiSig m-of-n tx support [BTC/LTC/PPC/NVC/42] (Read 8246 times)