Topic: Vote No for Coin Validation! - page 2. (Read 6172 times)
I've no problem with a private company doing this. I don;t see why a non-profit is getting involved unless $$$ lobbyists have got to them.
Careful what you wish for.
Don't worry, I've thought it through quite carefully. You have nothing to lose but your chains
Why don't you take a couple of hours to appreciate the genius of Murray Rothbard:
https://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp
It'll put your mind at ease.
The true bitcoin is in our very immediate future, and it will UTTERLY DESTROY states around the world.
Careful what you wish for.
governments CANNOT regulate bitcoin unless we allow it
Yes, and you can see in this thread the people who will allow it. Because it's "inevitable". Because they want to comply with the government. Because they are scared. Because they put greed over principle.
Frankly, I don't care about what the people do with bitcoin v.0.8. They almost certainly will turn it into Govtcoin. But the genie is out of the bottle. The true bitcoin is in our very immediate future, and it will UTTERLY DESTROY states around the world.
Q: Do you want to see Coin Validation implemented?
Well since everyone voted no I guess we are safe for now.
Its a little scary the way Bitcoin is SUPPOSED to be an uncontrollable opt-in system, but in reality depends on mass opinion... unless you just want to trade with yourself.
I mean lets say:
1. You have Bitcoins and/or a Bitcoin business.
2. General public adopts Bitcoin.
3. General public, with a healthy government shove, changes Bitcoin - say adds blacklisting.
What do you do now? Leave your money? Stop your business?
Scary how quickly our revolution could end if people are stupid enough.
Its a little scary the way Bitcoin is SUPPOSED to be an uncontrollable opt-in system, but in reality depends on mass opinion... unless you just want to trade with yourself.
I mean lets say:
1. You have Bitcoins and/or a Bitcoin business.
2. General public adopts Bitcoin.
3. General public, with a healthy government shove, changes Bitcoin - say adds blacklisting.
What do you do now? Leave your money? Stop your business?
Scary how quickly our revolution could end if people are stupid enough.
Governments will simply be ignored , if forced in the U.S.A
Unfortunately the Achilles' heel of Bitcoin is the exchanges. If Bitcoins cannot be bought or sold into flat easily, then they are next to useless. It will remain a small niche market which it cannot escape.
Unfortunately a compromise is going to have to be made somehow, or the banks/governments will simply clamp down on the exchanges.
You can always create exchanges based in..i don't know, Uganda or some other country where they don't give a fu*k about US...USA is not only country in world...so you can send fiat there..exchange it for bitcoins...there always will be some ways...you just need the courage to try it...but the thing is, it would not be mainstream. I can't imagine bitcoin being #1 world currency while being banned in more countries..i think now it is the most important time in the existance of bitcoin....Would you sacriface your privacy for btc going mainstream or would you sacriface btc going mainstream for your privacy?
Problem with foundation (only few members) I have is, that governments didn't even ask for this (maybe they did, but don't know about it, if yes, i am sorry and ignore this post) and bitcoin foundation would likely to implement it to "please" the governments before they even ask for it...and i have very strong feeling that they (bitcoin foundation) want to make a decisions (even in future important decisioins) despite bitcoin community opinion...if this will hapen...We should change bitcoin foundation, because i don't think they can change the community...compromise? Maybe, but they should ask the community first, not other members of the foundation because it looks like they think they are like VIP group, something more than average btc user....they can't wonder there is this reaction from our community members going on here...and if they wonder...again, maybe there should be some changes in bitcoin foundation board members...right now we have big lack of communication
Governments will simply be ignored , if forced in the U.S.A
Unfortunately the Achilles' heel of Bitcoin is the exchanges. If Bitcoins cannot be bought or sold into flat easily, then they are next to useless. It will remain a small niche market which it cannot escape.
Unfortunately a compromise is going to have to be made somehow, or the banks/governments will simply clamp down on the exchanges.
Governments will simply be ignored , if forced in the U.S.A
The U.S.A will be forced out ,,,
its just that simple.
The U.S.A will be forced out ,,,
its just that simple.
There's no good reason for it except to get some large retailers to accept it, but it will obviously undermine the relative anonymity of Bitcoin. Personally, I would never do it.
Sure there is. To make Yifu's coins worth more!!How about we blacklist every coin Yifu mined with the "delayed" batch 2 Avalon miners
. 
Here's my question: What choice do we have?
If the government decides they want businesses to report what Bitcoin addresses they are using (say, on a new virtual currencies tax form), and who has sent them money and who they have sent money to, it will effectively de-anonymize the whole network. Businesses couldn't operate legitimately without compliance, and businesses who complied would effectively rat out all of those who didn't.
If the government decides to implement it, it wouldn't be hard to get enough businesses onboard to make it eventually fully effective.
I agree this would effectively kill Bitcoin - no one wants every financial transaction they make to be aired to the public. Basically, the government is in control of Bitcoin's future.
If the government decides they want businesses to report what Bitcoin addresses they are using (say, on a new virtual currencies tax form), and who has sent them money and who they have sent money to, it will effectively de-anonymize the whole network. Businesses couldn't operate legitimately without compliance, and businesses who complied would effectively rat out all of those who didn't.
If the government decides to implement it, it wouldn't be hard to get enough businesses onboard to make it eventually fully effective.
I agree this would effectively kill Bitcoin - no one wants every financial transaction they make to be aired to the public. Basically, the government is in control of Bitcoin's future.
HAHAHHA tell me when thepiratebay is shut down
governments CANNOT kill bitcoin
governments CANNOT regulate bitcoin unless we allow it
the foundation is not representing us anymore.
Well, they never represented me. Just like the club in Washington that won all the popularity contests: I never voted for them, I didn't delegate any authority to them, I didn't engage in any activity authorizing them to represent me, and any statements to the contrary are simply lies.
Have a read of the link below, Bitcoin will go the same way.
http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702303559504579198370113163530-lMyQjAxMTAzMDEwNTExNDUyWj
http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702303559504579198370113163530-lMyQjAxMTAzMDEwNTExNDUyWj
Bitcoin was not meant to be like this.
Bitcoin is FREEDOM.
Getting into bed with the establishment will kill Bitcoin. It will just be the same old same old, the majority getting screwed.
Bitcoin is FREEDOM.
Getting into bed with the establishment will kill Bitcoin. It will just be the same old same old, the majority getting screwed.
Here's my question: What choice do we have?
If the government decides they want businesses to report what Bitcoin addresses they are using (say, on a new virtual currencies tax form), and who has sent them money and who they have sent money to, it will effectively de-anonymize the whole network. Businesses couldn't operate legitimately without compliance, and businesses who complied would effectively rat out all of those who didn't.
If the government decides to implement it, it wouldn't be hard to get enough businesses onboard to make it eventually fully effective.
I agree this would effectively kill Bitcoin - no one wants every financial transaction they make to be aired to the public. Basically, the government is in control of Bitcoin's future.
If the government decides they want businesses to report what Bitcoin addresses they are using (say, on a new virtual currencies tax form), and who has sent them money and who they have sent money to, it will effectively de-anonymize the whole network. Businesses couldn't operate legitimately without compliance, and businesses who complied would effectively rat out all of those who didn't.
If the government decides to implement it, it wouldn't be hard to get enough businesses onboard to make it eventually fully effective.
I agree this would effectively kill Bitcoin - no one wants every financial transaction they make to be aired to the public. Basically, the government is in control of Bitcoin's future.
If the government decides they want businesses to report what Bitcoin addresses they are using and who has sent them money then businesses shall move to another country. (Of course, at least one country has to remain free.) If the businesses will enforce deanonymization then they will lose customers who value anonymity (and perhaps gain new ones who value bigger government control) in favor of those business that will not enforce it. The customers angry because of necessity of doing business with companies in some "foreign obscure" (but more liberal) country should push their governments to change things.
Seems quite fair to me.
Here's my question: What choice do we have?
If the government decides...
If the government decides...
Then it's "time to change your governments":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY4J_RvP8cY
EDIT:
Something like http://openministry.info/ might be a good start
I just accidentally clicked on the 'yes' option by mistake. Can't retract it.
Can mods retract it please?
Can mods retract it please?
true, also i think it's all about taxes.. government isn't really scared of cryptos they are rather more concerned about bitcoin turning into a tax haven, remember how hard they went on UBS...?
I think coin/address tracking is inevitable. It's the best way for governments to gain some control over bitcoin (I'm not saying it's a good thing).
But here's what I think about it. I think if governments are going to mandate that coins/addresses be tracked and attached to real-world identities, then the government should accept responsibility for when (not if) that data is leaked/stolen from the centralized servers that store it.
Here's my question: What choice do we have?
If the government decides they want businesses to report what Bitcoin addresses they are using (say, on a new virtual currencies tax form), and who has sent them money and who they have sent money to, it will effectively de-anonymize the whole network. Businesses couldn't operate legitimately without compliance, and businesses who complied would effectively rat out all of those who didn't.
If the government decides to implement it, it wouldn't be hard to get enough businesses onboard to make it eventually fully effective.
I agree this would effectively kill Bitcoin - no one wants every financial transaction they make to be aired to the public. Basically, the government is in control of Bitcoin's future.
If the government decides they want businesses to report what Bitcoin addresses they are using (say, on a new virtual currencies tax form), and who has sent them money and who they have sent money to, it will effectively de-anonymize the whole network. Businesses couldn't operate legitimately without compliance, and businesses who complied would effectively rat out all of those who didn't.
If the government decides to implement it, it wouldn't be hard to get enough businesses onboard to make it eventually fully effective.
I agree this would effectively kill Bitcoin - no one wants every financial transaction they make to be aired to the public. Basically, the government is in control of Bitcoin's future.
I think coin/address tracking is inevitable. It's the best way for governments to gain some control over bitcoin (I'm not saying it's a good thing).
But here's what I think about it. I think if governments are going to mandate that coins/addresses be tracked and attached to real-world identities, then the government should accept responsibility for when (not if) that data is leaked/stolen from the centralized servers that store it.
Uhh no thanks
Bitcoin is about freedom of financial transactions. There are times when it is helpful to make financial transactions publicly-auditable (e.g., bitcoin donations to a politician) and there are times when privacy is preferred (tipping your favourite strip-for-bitcoin girl). I don't think this freedom can ever be taken away.
There are cases where I as a business owner may appreciate having a government-identified bitcoin address. One idea I have is real-time tax remission for our future bitcoin-based economy. Obviously taxes will not magically go away (but I do expect they will change) but at least we can make the process of paying them less painful.
So Joe owns a coffee shop in this new bitcoin economy. For a discount on his VAT, he agrees to accept all consumer payment to 1JoesCoffee987272389274237. All his suppliers are also registered with the local tax authorities. He runs a special version of a bitcoin client that auto-deducts the VAT from all purchases to 1JoesCoffee987272389274237 and sends, say 5%, to the tax authority. When he makes a purchase from a supplier, the tax authority sees this and immediately sends Joe his input tax credit. Man this would save a lot of headaches!!
The only time Joe would have to do any VAT accounting at all is if he wanted to claim input tax credits from someone not on his list. But this is no different than the way it is now, anyways.
Now, when Joe's 70-year old mom comes in, Joe can still choose to give her a coffee on the house. And if Joe's mom insists on paying, Joe can say, well just pay me half and send it here: 1JoesPrivateAddress098902834. Of course Joe gives this back to his mom in some stealth way in the future, like all good sons would.
So it seems you maintain privacy when you need to, but simplify accounting when you don't. Seems win-win for both business owners and tax collectors.
Fine print:
So that the competitors of Joe can't track his income statement, this addresses could be help privately between the tax authority and the businesses somehow. Joe could have many government-registered addresses, or perhaps just some "key" shared between him and the tax authority that specifies the alorigithm for calculating each new address.
There are cases where I as a business owner may appreciate having a government-identified bitcoin address. One idea I have is real-time tax remission for our future bitcoin-based economy. Obviously taxes will not magically go away (but I do expect they will change) but at least we can make the process of paying them less painful.
So Joe owns a coffee shop in this new bitcoin economy. For a discount on his VAT, he agrees to accept all consumer payment to 1JoesCoffee987272389274237. All his suppliers are also registered with the local tax authorities. He runs a special version of a bitcoin client that auto-deducts the VAT from all purchases to 1JoesCoffee987272389274237 and sends, say 5%, to the tax authority. When he makes a purchase from a supplier, the tax authority sees this and immediately sends Joe his input tax credit. Man this would save a lot of headaches!!
The only time Joe would have to do any VAT accounting at all is if he wanted to claim input tax credits from someone not on his list. But this is no different than the way it is now, anyways.
Now, when Joe's 70-year old mom comes in, Joe can still choose to give her a coffee on the house. And if Joe's mom insists on paying, Joe can say, well just pay me half and send it here: 1JoesPrivateAddress098902834. Of course Joe gives this back to his mom in some stealth way in the future, like all good sons would.
So it seems you maintain privacy when you need to, but simplify accounting when you don't. Seems win-win for both business owners and tax collectors.
Fine print:
So that the competitors of Joe can't track his income statement, this addresses could be help privately between the tax authority and the businesses somehow. Joe could have many government-registered addresses, or perhaps just some "key" shared between him and the tax authority that specifies the alorigithm for calculating each new address.
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