Wake up before it is too late - page 3.

naf

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Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 07:10:25 AM

Wow how this forum is an unbelievable echo-chamber fueling one big ponzi scheme. Bitcoin as a currency, give me a break. A currency where it takes days to clear payments unless you pay massive fees - fees that are hostage to whatever vagaries the miners have? And if you don't, you are left in limbo where you have no idea whether it takes minutes, hours or days to move your money? A currency which is heavily impacted by "civil wars" with rival crypto currencies? A "currency" even less stable than the former Zimbabwean dollar. Don't get me wrong - the other crypto "currencies" equally well fit the ponzi scheme.

It is abundantly clear from reading in here for quite a while that the vast majority of people speculating in here are simply pinning all their hopes and dreams on the notion that these tulip bulbs - sorry tokens - can only rise in value. Sorry to say, but some people are going to get hurt badly eventually....

We are all so relaxed because we are making a lot of money! Just that, join or leave.

HeRetiK

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Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 08:26:54 AM

Quote from: BitcoinHodler on November 15, 2017, 08:17:42 AM

for a very long time which is nearly 9 years now, bitcoin had no issues, empty mempool and low fees even as low as 0 satoshis. and you were nowhere to be seen.

Why should I bother when no-one apart from a group of people were playing around in a sandbox. I couldn't care less.

But when I now see that a lot of people with absolutely no financial knowledge stand to be cheated out of their lifesavings because immoral people are convincing them to jump onboard, then I do care.

Perhaps a good illustration is from one of the other discussion threads in here where people were talking about what the main advantages of Bitcoin was. In here there was the following:

"bitcoin is one of the biggest potential to make us become rich in quick time"

Bitcoin is indeed a get-rich-quick-scheme.

If you are involved, look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself: Am I the one being cheated, or am I the immoral bastard who is cheating someone else out of his life savings ?

Bitcoin is one of the greatest technological innovations of the last few years. Sure, there are people that are trying to make a quick buck out of it, but that still doesn't change the fact that cryptocurrencies have the potential to change the financial landscape for years to come. No one is forcing anyone to enter this market.

Did you blame the world wide web for the dot-com bubble? Does the current arguably questionable valuation of silicon valley companies reduce the value of the internet?

You can argue about whether current Bitcoin exchange rates are appropriate, but that doesn't change the value proposition that crypto-currencies bring to the table.

junoreactor

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Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 09:15:10 AM

Quote from: junoreactor on November 15, 2017, 09:08:56 AM

freightjoe has a point, many blind believers in these forums. That being said, if Bitcoin was a ponzi scheme, it would be over by now IMO.
Currency, no. Here I agree with you.

good posting. I only have one comment - namely that the Ponzi scheme which Bernie Madoff lasted for decades and had a magnitude of more than 60 billion USD when it collpased, hence they can indeed last for quite a while....

I also read quite recently that most search on Google had the word "investment" together with "Bitcoin", this was totally expected but it has to be said.

I am honest with myself, I "invested" only this year, already +80% profit, and intend to sell soon or later, and the big majority think this way. By soon or later I mean 2 or 3 years so I am ok with a Ponzi of many more years. lol. Lets make money with it while it is still possible (and I would love to be proven wrong of course).

What's stupid is this > http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/man-sells-everything-for-bitcoin-moves-family-to-campsite-a7994751.html

freightjoe

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Quote from: SMB-2525 on November 15, 2017, 09:17:51 AM

Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 09:06:45 AM

Quote from: East7547 on November 15, 2017, 09:04:21 AM

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I’m not sure how you can call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme!

"Ponzi schemes rely on a constant flow of new investments to continue to provide returns to older investors. When this flow runs out, the scheme falls apart"
In this case the returns are in the form of a higher price on Bitcoin

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme )

So you fundamentally misunderstand the bitcoin network.
By your definition of a ponzi, if somebody sells me Apple stock that they purchased for a lower price, then they are participating in a ponzi scheme.

The bitcoin network is transparent. There are no paper profits.
Madoff falsified account documents to create fictitious profits. When someone wanted some or all of their money, he raided the account of other investors to make the payout. This is how a ponzi scheme works.

You clearly do not get the point - or maybe you do not want to get the point. Back to whether you see type #1 or type #2 when you look in the mirror

SMB-2525

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Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 09:06:45 AM

Quote from: East7547 on November 15, 2017, 09:04:21 AM

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I’m not sure how you can call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme!

"Ponzi schemes rely on a constant flow of new investments to continue to provide returns to older investors. When this flow runs out, the scheme falls apart"
In this case the returns are in the form of a higher price on Bitcoin

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme )

So you fundamentally misunderstand the bitcoin network.
By your definition of a ponzi, if somebody sells me Apple stock that they purchased for a lower price, then they are participating in a ponzi scheme.

The bitcoin network is transparent. There are no paper profits.
Madoff falsified account documents to create fictitious profits. When someone wanted some or all of their money, he raided the account of other investors to make the payout. This is how a ponzi scheme works.

freightjoe

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Quote from: SMB-2525 on November 15, 2017, 09:09:55 AM

Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 08:58:25 AM

The whole financial collapse in 2007-08 is a pretty good example. At least there governments stepped in to salvage some of the damage done. For the cryptoworld there will be no such action. Even now many are finding it extremely hard to transfer Bitcoin - it takes hours or days. When the roof caves in, there will be no financial salvation of anyone trapped within and there will be no chance of selling out before all is lost

It was bad.
Not a ponzi.

A turd by any other name is still a turd

n4poleon

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Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 09:06:45 AM

Quote from: East7547 on November 15, 2017, 09:04:21 AM

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I’m not sure how you can call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme!

"Ponzi schemes rely on a constant flow of new investments to continue to provide returns to older investors. When this flow runs out, the scheme falls apart"
In this case the returns are in the form of a higher price on Bitcoin

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme )

Duuuh... Bitcoin only requires 2 full nodes to work. Like I said this is voluntary they come and go at will and we don't care. Maybe you're referring to bitconnect . lol

Hence even without new comers bitcoin still going to work. Making your ponzi argument invalid.

freightjoe

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Quote from: junoreactor on November 15, 2017, 09:08:56 AM

freightjoe has a point, many blind believers in these forums. That being said, if Bitcoin was a ponzi scheme, it would be over by now IMO.
Currency, no. Here I agree with you.

good posting. I only have one comment - namely that the Ponzi scheme which Bernie Madoff lasted for decades and had a magnitude of more than 60 billion USD when it collpased, hence they can indeed last for quite a while....

tutkarz

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Quote from: TangentC on November 15, 2017, 07:40:48 AM

Insane Fees , weeks to receive a transactions.

Core version of Bitcoin is Broken!

Only idiots can't realize that.

and their are a lot of damn idiots in these forums.

To be honest I am disapointed. By the title I was hoping you will be talking that Jesus or Buddha is going to save my life but you are talking about some minor material passing things.
Then maybe you should wake up for greater truth than this Wink

SMB-2525

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Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 08:58:25 AM

The whole financial collapse in 2007-08 is a pretty good example. At least there governments stepped in to salvage some of the damage done. For the cryptoworld there will be no such action. Even now many are finding it extremely hard to transfer Bitcoin - it takes hours or days. When the roof caves in, there will be no financial salvation of anyone trapped within and there will be no chance of selling out before all is lost

It was bad.
Not a ponzi.

junoreactor

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freightjoe has a point, many blind believers in these forums. That being said, if Bitcoin was a ponzi scheme, it would be over by now IMO.
Currency, no. Here I agree with you.
Bitcoin will be a great asset though for people wishing to remain anonymous (I don't mean for crimes) for example to place bets on sports, or play poker.
I worked before in the betting industry, and I can tell, more and more people will be using Bitcoin, local governments want to control everything, Bitcoin will be useful to keep this "freedom".

But I have to agree big time about the transaction fees and slow confirmations. IMO it won't become a real currency, but if it has a future, will be usable for big purchase such as houses, cars, maybe flight tickets one day.

batang_bitcoin

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Quote from: TangentC on November 15, 2017, 07:40:48 AM

Insane Fees , weeks to receive a transactions.

Core version of Bitcoin is Broken!

Only idiots can't realize that.

and their are a lot of damn idiots in these forums.

And why you are here in forum? If you are complaining about the high fees of transactions then you better go to alt coins. That's why alt coins are created to have alternative way of sending money to others. And that's the way that can answer your problem. And before you say that there are a lot of good people here in forum, try to distinguish first what is their and there.

UsernameBitcoin

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That is correct people need to wake up otherwise they are going to miss out on something great and they will hold this regret forever that will be extremely hard to shake because they can not help but think where they went wrong and why they did not listen to what the smart, yet few, people were saying about BTC. This is a revolution in money and you better start to learn why.

freightjoe

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Quote from: East7547 on November 15, 2017, 09:04:21 AM

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I’m not sure how you can call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme!

"Ponzi schemes rely on a constant flow of new investments to continue to provide returns to older investors. When this flow runs out, the scheme falls apart"
In this case the returns are in the form of a higher price on Bitcoin

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme )

freightjoe

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Quote from: BitcoinHodler on November 15, 2017, 09:02:10 AM

Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 08:26:54 AM

"bitcoin is one of the biggest potential to make us become rich in quick time"

Bitcoin is indeed a get-rich-quick-scheme.

there are always idiots who use things in a different/wrong way than they should be using them, that doesn't make those things wrong. it makes their usage wrong.

i saw someone kill with a kitchen knife, does that mean you are a murderer because you have kitchen knives at home? Wink

Wow - you defend Bitcoin the same way some Americans defend why they need to have guns, with the result being an extreme amount of mass-shootings. I have no idea why you wanted to put Bitcoin in the same context as mass shootings, but to each his own I guess.....

East7547

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I’m not sure how you can call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme!

BitcoinHodler

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HODLing is an art, not just a word...

Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 08:26:54 AM

"bitcoin is one of the biggest potential to make us become rich in quick time"

Bitcoin is indeed a get-rich-quick-scheme.

there are always idiots who use things in a different/wrong way than they should be using them, that doesn't make those things wrong. it makes their usage wrong.

i saw someone kill with a kitchen knife, does that mean you are a murderer because you have kitchen knives at home? Wink

freightjoe

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Quote from: SMB-2525 on November 15, 2017, 08:54:31 AM

Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 08:51:39 AM

Quote from: SMB-2525 on November 15, 2017, 08:47:40 AM

Have you even considered the implications of regulatory approval to create a bitcoin futures market on the CME?
And then the approval to create BTC exchange traded funds (ETFs)?
These are not events that occur for ponzi schemes.

Of course they are Roll Eyes

. Read up on Bernie Madoff who is now in jail for the biggest ponzi scheme of all time in the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

He was a top market-maker on Wall street not to mention non-executive chairman of the NASDAQ
hence your arguments prove absolutely nothing

Madoff was a classic ponzi. He operated outside of the scrutiny of regulatory oversight.
Exactly the opposite of the CME and any BTC ETF.

Where are the CME sponsored ponzi schemes?

The whole financial collapse in 2007-08 is a pretty good example. At least there governments stepped in to salvage some of the damage done. For the cryptoworld there will be no such action. Even now many are finding it extremely hard to transfer Bitcoin - it takes hours or days. When the roof caves in, there will be no financial salvation of anyone trapped within and there will be no chance of selling out before all is lost

freightjoe

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Quote from: SMB-2525 on November 15, 2017, 08:52:01 AM

Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 08:38:17 AM

Have you considered my previous question about looking in the mirror and figuring out which one of the two you are?

I am neither. Nor is anyone on this board.
In order to define BTC as a cheaters game, you have to conclude that virtually every investment opportunity is "cheating".
People who buy bitcoin are only cheated in the same way that people buy stocks or real estate or commodities as investment.
The price either goes up or it goes down.

then it seems to be choice #1

SMB-2525

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Quote from: freightjoe on November 15, 2017, 08:51:39 AM

Quote from: SMB-2525 on November 15, 2017, 08:47:40 AM

Have you even considered the implications of regulatory approval to create a bitcoin futures market on the CME?
And then the approval to create BTC exchange traded funds (ETFs)?
These are not events that occur for ponzi schemes.

Of course they are Roll Eyes

. Read up on Bernie Madoff who is now in jail for the biggest ponzi scheme of all time in the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

He was a top market-maker on Wall street not to mention non-executive chairman of the NASDAQ
hence your arguments prove absolutely nothing

Madoff was a classic ponzi. He operated outside of the scrutiny of regulatory oversight.
Exactly the opposite of the CME and any BTC ETF.

Where are the CME sponsored ponzi schemes?

Topic: Wake up before it is too late - page 3. (Read 1489 times)