Segwit signatures are still on chain they are just in a different spot. Segwit moves the signature out of the input script and stores it in another part of the transaction on chain.
Speculating about future hard forks that might compromise Bitcoin security is pointless because any hard fork could compromise security in any number of ways. And be rejected. That’s what full nodes are for.
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 13533. (Read 26718241 times)
July 02, 2018, 08:55:17 PM
July 02, 2018, 08:29:57 PM
It’s still a hard fork which would be opposed by the vast majority of economic weight and users. Go ahead and make your Bitcoin Plus Plus or whatever you want to call it. No one cares.
That’s why Bitcoin relies on consensus. USAF taught us that miners don’t mean shit in Bitcoin.
That’s why Bitcoin relies on consensus. USAF taught us that miners don’t mean shit in Bitcoin.
i would rather rely on math that includes the signature information that proves the coins are mine on chain.
consensus can be a fickle beast, and what power wants and what the current consensus wants may differ in the future. there is a lot of money thats sitting in segwit. i do not want to underestimate the greed and power focused on that.
if/when this attack happens core will remain core with its segwit coins intact and the fork will be the fork, whatever name it chooses. my current legacy coins will remain safe on both. i dont care what the odds are of the fork becoming dominant are as its non zero, and i do not want my btc to be at non zero risk.
as always the choice is the users. this information exists, its up to the user to evaluate it for its risk to their wealth.
July 02, 2018, 08:07:50 PM
hacker monks to save bitcoin from itself
Amir Taaki
Now he's back, with radical plans for bitcoin – and the states of Western Europe
seems like nearly everyone forgot what bitcoin was about
Amir Taaki
Now he's back, with radical plans for bitcoin – and the states of Western Europe
seems like nearly everyone forgot what bitcoin was about
July 02, 2018, 08:04:44 PM
It’s still a hard fork which would be opposed by the vast majority of economic weight and users. Go ahead and make your Bitcoin Plus Plus or whatever you want to call it. No one cares.
That’s why Bitcoin relies on consensus. USAF taught us that miners don’t mean shit in Bitcoin.
That’s why Bitcoin relies on consensus. USAF taught us that miners don’t mean shit in Bitcoin.
July 02, 2018, 08:00:21 PM
The Segwit theft would require a hard fork.
And if you are going to have a successful theft by hard fork, you may as well steal from the legacy addresses as well.
And if you are going to have a successful theft by hard fork, you may as well steal from the legacy addresses as well.
the fork that results is basically nothing more than using only legacy address format coins (because they have the on chain signatures that can prove ownership) on the current chain. you cant steal coins that follow the same rules that the fork have.
July 02, 2018, 07:56:48 PM
The Segwit theft would require a hard fork.
And if you are going to have a successful theft by hard fork, you may as well steal from the legacy addresses as well.
This is just more Bcash lol bullshit.
And if you are going to have a successful theft by hard fork, you may as well steal from the legacy addresses as well.
This is just more Bcash lol bullshit.
Also referred to as a snowball's chance in hell, no?
In theory, might sound plausible, but in practice, not so much.
July 02, 2018, 07:50:06 PM
The Segwit theft would require a hard fork.
And if you are going to have a successful theft by hard fork, you may as well steal from the legacy addresses as well.
This is just more Bcash lol bullshit.
And if you are going to have a successful theft by hard fork, you may as well steal from the legacy addresses as well.
This is just more Bcash lol bullshit.
July 02, 2018, 07:42:27 PM
Whats wrong with conspiracy? Some things should absolutely be questioned until the truth is in a majority consensus.
I suppose.
Never say never, but does anyone really believe that segwit is going to get reversed due to lack of support?
I doubt it.
In the meantime, a variety of FUDsters will continue to denigrate segwit, and seem to cause even smart peeps to fail/refuse to use segwit features (and addresses) which will continue to carry out the intended behaviors preferred by the FUDsters - largely what seems to be a delay the inevitable, which is greater and greater segwit adoption.
Perhaps instead of having high levels (such as greater than 2/3) of segwit adoption in 2 years, it will take more than 4 or 5 years? If they are successful in the FUD spreading, then I suppose it could take a while to get to majority and even convincingly majority status with segwit adoption, perhaps?
I've been thinking about that anunymint guys idea. Have we seen it play out before, on the etherium blockchain?
He reckons that miners at some point will mine segwit coins to themselves as a 'donation' because (AnyoneCanSpend) in the (original bitcoin) protocol allows it to happen. This will trigger a fork in which the core supported chain would roll back to reverse that theft by miners.
No, it won't roll back. Any block which includes any "steal" of Segwit "anyonecanspend" addresses would simply be rejected/orphaned by the nodes and miners supporting the consensus rules, that is what would automatically make the attackers be left in a new fork (no matter if they are 1% of hashrate or 99% at the moment of the attack).
Then, depending on how much hashrate they represent, would try to claim it is the legitimate chain and try to convince exchanges and other major players (currently running nodes with the consensus rules and with lots of money and credibility on stake) to switch to their chain by changing the software they are currently running to rollback and accept those invalid blocks or directly switch to the rogue chain.
P.S.: It should be noted that at the very moment those exchanges switch to the attackers fork they would be automatically bankrupt. So try to guess what is the probability of that to happen....
It sounds pretty drastic, and likely to happen. new chain is going to be legacy only... fuck segwit!!!!!!!!!
Everyone abandon all segwit addresses, and revert to the safety of legacy. Go legacy go..... That way the trolls get their way while we extensively and completely prepare for an event that is about .00001% to happen.
July 02, 2018, 07:20:46 PM
If you mean Potts Point and Toorak then yes. There’s still an ass load of koalas round my part of town.
July 02, 2018, 07:19:07 PM
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2018-July/016189.html
Here are the Bitcoin alert keys for your pranking consideration.
Here are the Bitcoin alert keys for your pranking consideration.
Quote
ancient node (running v0.12.x or older)
little dig from kanzure there after his warm reception chez MP July 02, 2018, 07:18:50 PM
Whats wrong with conspiracy? Some things should absolutely be questioned until the truth is in a majority consensus.
I suppose.
Never say never, but does anyone really believe that segwit is going to get reversed due to lack of support?
I doubt it.
In the meantime, a variety of FUDsters will continue to denigrate segwit, and seem to cause even smart peeps to fail/refuse to use segwit features (and addresses) which will continue to carry out the intended behaviors preferred by the FUDsters - largely what seems to be a delay the inevitable, which is greater and greater segwit adoption.
Perhaps instead of having high levels (such as greater than 2/3) of segwit adoption in 2 years, it will take more than 4 or 5 years? If they are successful in the FUD spreading, then I suppose it could take a while to get to majority and even convincingly majority status with segwit adoption, perhaps?
I've been thinking about that anunymint guys idea. Have we seen it play out before, on the etherium blockchain?
Is bitcoin close enough to ethereum to conclude that something that happened on ethreum (two years ago) would be reasonably feasible on bitcoin today? or in the future?
He reckons that miners at some point will mine segwit coins to themselves as a 'donation' because (AnyoneCanSpend) in the (original bitcoin) protocol allows it to happen. This will trigger a fork in which the core supported chain would roll back to reverse that theft by miners.
Would that be a bit like the the Etherium DAO hacker helping himself to funds via the bug ridden piece of shit that it was?
Would that be a bit like the the Etherium DAO hacker helping himself to funds via the bug ridden piece of shit that it was?
You can argue that the problems with the ethereum contract language a couple of years ago is at a sufficiently high similarity to segwit language, but certainly, I don't understand that segwit language is anywhere near as sloppily written as DAO language - or even as powerful as the weakness that was in the DAO language.
In the etherium case, claim to immutability was lost because the transactions were rolled back, the chain forked and the immutable etherium classic was born.
I recall Ethereum claiming to be pro-hardfork well before the DAO attack, and they were lording over their "hard fork friendly" disposition and practice prior to the DAO hardfork that went a bit worse for them with the birth of ethereum classic.
In the ether case the market didn't care about immutability and the value stayed with Etherium leaving classic as an alt. Would the same follow for bitcoin core ?
Game theory, I suppose to see if a hardfork would occur in bitcoin or not because of such a supposed flaw? Sounds more like speculative FUD spreading to me than a real possibility, but what do I know?
edit 1: In this scenario (if I understood it correctly) it will be quite hard for the core chain to continue to claim being the one true bitcoin I would have thought. But then again I thought that about etherium too at the time.
You are assuming that there is going to be a bitcoin hardfork under such circumstances.. don't we have to get there first, before assuming the rest?
edit 2: I'm not trolling just trying to think through the possibilities. I also don't think anunymint is trying to troll either. Nearly all the replies I read to his posts didn't directly relate to what he was trying to say.
If anunymint is so smart and so misunderstood, then why can't he be smart enough to figure out a better way to present his ideas, rather than attempting to lord over his supposed technological expertise and calling everyone other than himself dumb? Furthermore, if he was so smart, then why doesn't he work with core to attempt to help solve the problem... Oh no? Core folks are so dumb that they disregard the smartness of anunymint, who is the smartest person in the room.
July 02, 2018, 07:17:25 PM
I know of a lot of Aussies who have gone for a walk under eucalyptus trees.
Koala's do not live where Aussies walk
July 02, 2018, 07:15:57 PM
I know of a lot of Aussies who have gone for a walk under eucalyptus trees.
July 02, 2018, 07:15:17 PM
Before you drop a caribou you have a smell to make sure everything is on the up and up. No reason to pay the fine if you can't eat the thing. I imagine it works the same in Oz only in reverse somehow.
July 02, 2018, 07:13:43 PM
Have you ever smelt koala droppings?
Have you. I do not know of much Aussies going round smelling koala shit
Anywho
Cannot wait
the return of Taaki one of bitcoins lead developers
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/amir-taaki-dark-wallet-cryptocurrency-bitcoin-revolution-catalonia
July 02, 2018, 07:10:11 PM
Have you ever smelt koala droppings?
Edit: Maybe this should be our next poll.
Edit: Maybe this should be our next poll.
July 02, 2018, 07:08:32 PM
OK GIVE ME SOME MERIT 
no one has anymaybe buy copper membership so we don't have to click newbie links
I mean, it's a sexually transmitted disease. Should be fine to eat.
July 02, 2018, 07:06:42 PM
OK GIVE ME SOME MERIT
no one has anymaybe buy copper membership so we don't have to click newbie links
July 02, 2018, 07:06:14 PM
My money is on Ecuador post 29 March 2019.
We're all joining Julian in their embassy so we're in their hands.
July 02, 2018, 07:04:14 PM
I heard all the trains stopped running because it hit 25C over the weekend.
The UK is a serious country filled with serious and capable institutions.
We acknowledge all of them only function within a 5-22 centigrade window but I'd like to see somewhere like Ecuador do better.
My money is on Ecuador post 29 March 2019.
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