Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 13774.

Spaceman_Spiff_Original

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Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:43:22 PM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff_Original on May 24, 2018, 12:41:21 PM

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:38:53 PM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff_Original on May 24, 2018, 12:36:11 PM

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:29:03 PM

Gold isn't a very good monetary asset, since it's market is speculative and that makes it unstable. But bitcoin would be far worse, because unlike gold, it has virtually 0% intrinsic value. Stability is what the monetary system needs, because that is very important to develop the economy.

I think "intrinsic value" is bullshit.

I am very serious. In fact, maybe "value" is even a flawed word. Something has properties, which give it utility, which can be desirable for someone.
Value is always subjective. (see "a horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse").

So, you actually can't comprehend that gold has irreplaceable value in electronics?

Strawman much?
First off, I originally specifically said "Gold's monetary utility is also easily replaceable.", already taking into account that gold has other utility than just the monetary one.
Secondly, I was talking about the concept of intrinsic value in general.

Jacques_Bittard

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Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff_Original on May 24, 2018, 12:41:21 PM

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:38:53 PM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff_Original on May 24, 2018, 12:36:11 PM

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:29:03 PM

Gold isn't a very good monetary asset, since it's market is speculative and that makes it unstable. But bitcoin would be far worse, because unlike gold, it has virtually 0% intrinsic value. Stability is what the monetary system needs, because that is very important to develop the economy.

I think "intrinsic value" is bullshit.

I am very serious. In fact, maybe "value" is even a flawed word. Something has properties, which give it utility, which can be desirable for someone.
Value is always subjective. (see "a horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse").

So, you actually can't comprehend that gold has irreplaceable value in electronics?

Spaceman_Spiff_Original

full member

Activity: 417

Merit: 220

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:38:53 PM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff_Original on May 24, 2018, 12:36:11 PM

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:29:03 PM

Gold isn't a very good monetary asset, since it's market is speculative and that makes it unstable. But bitcoin would be far worse, because unlike gold, it has virtually 0% intrinsic value. Stability is what the monetary system needs, because that is very important to develop the economy.

I think "intrinsic value" is bullshit.

I am very serious. In fact, maybe "value" is even a flawed word. Something has properties, which give it utility, which can be desirable for someone.
Value is always subjective (see "a horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse").

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:38:53 PM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff_Original on May 24, 2018, 12:36:11 PM

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:29:03 PM

Gold isn't a very good monetary asset, since it's market is speculative and that makes it unstable. But bitcoin would be far worse, because unlike gold, it has virtually 0% intrinsic value. Stability is what the monetary system needs, because that is very important to develop the economy.

I think "intrinsic value" is bullshit.

No he's 100% right. Every school of economic thought other than Marxists, who still cling to the nutty labor theory of value, have given up non subjective theories of value. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value

Jacques_Bittard

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Activity: 154

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Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff_Original on May 24, 2018, 12:36:11 PM

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:29:03 PM

Gold isn't a very good monetary asset, since it's market is speculative and that makes it unstable. But bitcoin would be far worse, because unlike gold, it has virtually 0% intrinsic value. Stability is what the monetary system needs, because that is very important to develop the economy.

I think "intrinsic value" is bullshit.

Spaceman_Spiff_Original

full member

Activity: 417

Merit: 220

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:29:03 PM

Gold isn't a very good monetary asset, since it's market is speculative and that makes it unstable. But bitcoin would be far worse, because unlike gold, it has virtually 0% intrinsic value. Stability is what the monetary system needs, because that is very important to develop the economy.

I think "intrinsic value" is bullshit.

Also, gold is impractical as a means of exchange, which hinders its "stickyness" and price stability.
If bitcoin scales well and has increased adoption, it would become more stable.

Dakustaking76

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Activity: 579

Merit: 267

Everything is green dildo exept BTC and ethrium ...

Jacques_Bittard

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Activity: 154

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Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff_Original on May 24, 2018, 12:14:07 PM

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:11:37 PM

I'm not a big fan of investing into precious metals with highly speculative markets, but BTC vs gold, I would choose gold. Bitcoin may be limited, but it is also easily replaceable. This makes it's value far more fragile.
With PoW vs PoS, the environment isn't an issue, but the cost of production is an issue. It's all about the numbers, talks about the environment is just for PR.

Gold's monetary utility is also easily replaceable... with bitcoin. We might see that play out over the next decades.

Gold isn't a very good monetary asset, since it's market is speculative and that makes it unstable. But bitcoin would be far worse, because unlike gold, it has virtually 0% intrinsic value. Stability is what the monetary system needs, because that is very important to develop the economy.

Spaceman_Spiff_Original

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Activity: 417

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Dakustaking76 on May 24, 2018, 10:10:52 AM

Can we go up now like crossing $20k and more

I'm still kicking myself for not selling off the rest of the coin I have loaded on the exchange when it last bounced off $11,500.

You could do worse, like shorting with leverage around 6800 and going long again around 9800...

markj113

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Quote from: Robin,Hood on May 24, 2018, 12:03:41 PM

Gold has no future because of the upcoming power abundance. Right now it is extremely inefficient to make gold which can be done but to produce 1 gram it would cost you a million dollars so digging it up is far more economical.
Bitcoin is limited does not matter how much free, very cheap power you have you cant produce more only push up the hash-rate to astronomical levels. Free or extremely cheap power you still need a unit of measurement to contact business. And the other thing prof of stake or any of the other stuff the carpet is ripped right out under there feed if power or environment is not an issue.
Trust me its on the way and or in place.

Your so full of shit.

By your own figures (which are inaccurate) power costs would have to reduce 99.96% just to break even on buying a mined, fully refined 1g gold.

And that doesnt even include the building and running costs of the new power plants then the nuclear reactors or particle accelerators required to produce the tiny amounts of gold.

Spaceman_Spiff_Original

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Activity: 417

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Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 12:11:37 PM

I'm not a big fan of investing into precious metals with highly speculative markets, but BTC vs gold, I would choose gold. Bitcoin may be limited, but it is also easily replaceable. This makes it's value far more fragile.
With PoW vs PoS, the environment isn't an issue, but the cost of production is an issue. It's all about the numbers, talks about the environment is just for PR.

Gold's monetary utility is also easily replaceable... with bitcoin. We might see that play out over the next decades.

Spaceman_Spiff_Original

full member

Activity: 417

Merit: 220

Quote from: ?? on ??

They do have too much power in their dev team who operates like a company and it will bite them but it could possibly make it easy for governments acceptance.

But... what if technology can't fundamentally support that "too much power" stuff ?

That's what we're starting to see with mETH, and the mETH-heads are too busy getting high on gas to see the forest through the trees.

The forest be burning, yo.

Ethereum isn't as great as people want to pretend, there isn't a lot of smart contracts actually being used. The saving grace of Eth is their switch to Casper, which we'll have all these environmentalist who don't understand anything about crypto but that Eth will use way less mining power now and they think it should be used instead of Bitcoin .

The big issue they're missing is Bitcoin miners are essentially building tons of infrastructure for these hydroelectric, geothermic areas and of course love solar and wind but fuck that logic.

Look, I am a big bitcoin enthusiast, but building infrastructure to use up more alternative energy is not energy-neutral or energy-positive (unless you assume there is some of scaling effect in which technologies only become developed after they grow large enough, and then you would assume that the added electricity demand is just what the world needed to get to that threshold, which seems unlikely) . So no, bitcoin mining is not positive for the environment. It might be that POW is the only good method for a cryptocurrency (I haven't really looked that deeply into other systems), but lets not create make-believe stories.

Jacques_Bittard

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Activity: 154

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Quote from: Robin,Hood on May 24, 2018, 12:03:41 PM

Quote from: markj113 on May 24, 2018, 11:14:12 AM

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 11:09:40 AM

My respects to anyone whose work is about creating real value and developing the economy. Then you must also see this (crypto) as a fun game and not take things overly serious

Goes against the grain here but I have always said for me personally I use crypto for short term gains then plough the profits into gold for the mid to long term.

In the future I see crypto being banned with state issued and controlled crypto being the legal alternative.

Most will disagree but no one has a crytal ball and time will tell.

Gold has no future because of the upcoming power abundance. Right now it is extremely inefficient to make gold which can be done but to produce 1 gram it would cost you a million dollars so digging it up is far more economical.
Bitcoin is limited does not matter how much free, very cheap power you have you cant produce more only push up the hash-rate to astronomical levels. Free or extremely cheap power you still need a unit of measurement to contact business. And the other thing prof of stake or any of the other stuff the carpet is ripped right out under there feed if power or environment is not an issue.
Trust me its on the way and or in place.

I'm not a big fan of investing into precious metals with highly speculative markets, but BTC vs gold, I would choose gold. Bitcoin may be limited, but it is also easily replaceable. This makes it's value far more fragile.
With PoW vs PoS, the environment isn't an issue, but the cost of production is an issue. It's all about the numbers, talks about the environment is just for PR.

Toxic2040

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Activity: 1834

Merit: 4197

Tweezers everywhere. dyor.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/active-trading/040714/tweezers-provide-precision-trend-traders.asp

mindrust

legendary

Activity: 3276

Merit: 2442

I don't know you guys but I can hodl my stash and can keep buying till it goes below $1k levels. If it goes lower, I'll probably lose my mind and in this situation it won't make any sense to sell neither so I would either go all in with my FIAT in my bank account or just keep hodling like I was doing before.

That's my emergency plan. Grin

Robin,Hood

member

Activity: 462

Merit: 62

Quote from: markj113 on May 24, 2018, 11:14:12 AM

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 11:09:40 AM

My respects to anyone whose work is about creating real value and developing the economy. Then you must also see this (crypto) as a fun game and not take things overly serious

Goes against the grain here but I have always said for me personally I use crypto for short term gains then plough the profits into gold for the mid to long term.

In the future I see crypto being banned with state issued and controlled crypto being the legal alternative.

Most will disagree but no one has a crytal ball and time will tell.

Gold has no future because of the upcoming power abundance. Right now it is extremely inefficient to make gold which can be done but to produce 1 gram it would cost you a million dollars so digging it up is far more economical.
Bitcoin is limited does not matter how much free, very cheap power you have you cant produce more only push up the hash-rate to astronomical levels. Free or extremely cheap power you still need a unit of measurement to contact business. And the other thing prof of stake or any of the other stuff the carpet is ripped right out under there feed if power or environment is not an issue.
Trust me its on the way and or in place.

Karartma1

legendary

Activity: 2310

Merit: 1422

Quote from: kaicrypzen on May 24, 2018, 11:06:55 AM

Quote from: infofront on May 24, 2018, 10:19:21 AM

So, when moon?

https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/phases

You Win! Definitely! infofront will be pleased I hope.

I saw a lot of FUD around the MSM and hopefully we found some bottom not only for today but for a longer timeframe. We all know this is not enough anyway

Jacques_Bittard

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Activity: 154

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Quote from: markj113 on May 24, 2018, 11:14:12 AM

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 11:09:40 AM

My respects to anyone whose work is about creating real value and developing the economy. Then you must also see this (crypto) as a fun game and not take things overly serious

Goes against the grain here but I have always said for me personally I use crypto for short term gains then plough the profits into gold for the mid to long term.

In the future I see crypto being banned with state issued and controlled crypto being the legal alternative.

Most will disagree but no one has a crytal ball and time will tell.

I see that in the end, crypto won't go out with a bang, but with a whimper. People will just start to realize it more, that it isn't a miracle cure to anything. BTC will probably go first, because it actually tries to be a currency without any value stabilization mechanism. The newer generations will last longer, but again, people will see that they are just ineffective databases. But I don't have a crystal ball either, unexpected and strange things could happen.
Our investment logic and love of toys express itself a little differently. I get very anxious when I see money sitting still on something. I need to see it constantly moving and giving people a chance to create more value. For my lust of speed, I love cars that aren't legal to drive on the road and that are as light and mean as they can be. To fuel my vanity, I love mostly cars that are at least 40 years old

markj113

legendary

Activity: 2254

Merit: 1043

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 11:09:40 AM

My respects to anyone whose work is about creating real value and developing the economy. Then you must also see this (crypto) as a fun game and not take things overly serious

Goes against the grain here but I have always said for me personally I use crypto for short term gains then plough the profits into gold for the mid to long term.

In the future I see crypto being banned with state issued and controlled crypto being the legal alternative.

Most will disagree but no one has a crytal ball and time will tell.

Jacques_Bittard

member

Activity: 154

Merit: 10

.

Quote from: markj113 on May 24, 2018, 11:01:31 AM

Quote from: Jacques_Bittard on May 24, 2018, 10:59:28 AM

May I ask in what field do you work in?

I am a national project management lead for a very big UK company.

My respects to anyone whose work is about creating real value and developing the economy. Then you must also see this (crypto) as a fun game and not take things overly serious

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 13774. (Read 26712326 times)