Wow! What a run we had the last few hours while I was sleeping!
Looks like $3000 soonish right?!
However I would like to slow down a bit and let our baby catch some air before he continues going wild!
Great to start a day lihe that. The morning coffee tastes 10x better than usual!
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 17052. (Read 26586283 times)
June 06, 2017, 02:16:59 AM
June 06, 2017, 02:16:40 AM
Gonna place this prediction here for sake of posterity to look back in a few years:
Sounds good to me
r0ach I dislike your profile picture having an innate dislike of cockroaches in general. I dislike your signature finding it disrespectful to a people and faith I hold in high esteem and I am unclear why you are so active in a bitcoin forum given your feelings on bitcoin.
That said I am going to try and help you by highlighting where I feel you are grossly mistaken. I believe your current paradigm if unadjusted will lead you to loss of economic opportunity. Like many detractors of bitcoin you focus on the speculative delivery vehicle (get rich quick mentality) and the ease of launching alt-coins. Both of these may be currently important in terms of price and adoption but are ultimately irrelevant in regards to long term value.
The long term value of bitcoin is the consensus network that remains after the mining rewards decline into insignificance. The quotes below highlight this logic. I recommend reading them including the linked Scientific American article on group selection.
That said I am going to try and help you by highlighting where I feel you are grossly mistaken. I believe your current paradigm if unadjusted will lead you to loss of economic opportunity. Like many detractors of bitcoin you focus on the speculative delivery vehicle (get rich quick mentality) and the ease of launching alt-coins. Both of these may be currently important in terms of price and adoption but are ultimately irrelevant in regards to long term value.
The long term value of bitcoin is the consensus network that remains after the mining rewards decline into insignificance. The quotes below highlight this logic. I recommend reading them including the linked Scientific American article on group selection.
What is Bitcoin
Bitcoin is an overarching consensus system organized around the concept of sound money. Those voluntarily participating in this consensus are required to behave transparently and do work with the ultimate aim of ensuring all network participants abide by the greater consensus. Nodes who choose not to follow the protocol, miners who submit invalid proof of work, and users who try to spend bitcoins without verified private keys, are simply ignored and excluded by the greater consensus.
Bitcoin is a form of group selection and group selection entails that group behavior be referenced to something outside the group. This something outside is the concept groups cohere and organize around. It is what they cooperate to promote. In the case of bitcoin the referenced object is the conceptual idea of a sound and ideal money.
People who believe bitcoin has no long term future are unlikely to participate in the system in any sustained manner. If you believe bitcoin is just a scam you may participate in the periphery trying to make money but logic will dictate you constantly keep one foot in the doorway. You will hesitate at being involved in anything but the most superficial manner.
Probably you will choose not to invest at all but if you do then you are likely to cash out of the system at some point choosing to take your profits and leave the "tulip bubble" you have no confidence in. In this manner those who do not appreciate the underlying consensus mechanism will be diluted and replaced over time by those more interested in long term cooperation and building value.
It helps to understand what group selection is. Here is a basic introduction:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/whats-good-for-the-group/
What you say doesn't contradict what I'm saying. You may claim that there is a hard core of "true believers" which ARE indeed a community. Most probably, yes, there is probably a hard core community of true believers. However, the questions are:
1) how much of the ecosystem do they make up at any given moment in time
2) what influence can they have on the ecosystem ?
The way bitcoin is designed to be, turns around antagonism: we all want to possess coins, and if you possess a coin, I don't and vice versa, which makes us de facto antagonists ; there is competition in proof of work mining and the gains that go with it ; and deep down, it turns around speculation (which is a zero sum game). There's nothing in bitcoin that is designed to be cooperative, apart from having to stick to the consensus protocol for reasons of greater loss if you don't.
1) How large is the community of "true believers"?
This is unknown but I suspect the "true believers" control a huge percentage of the bitcoins and this is a good thing.
Bitcoin came on the scene as the obscure technical pet project of idealists, anarchist, open source advocates and libertarians who wanted to improve the world and reform the status quo.
These "true believers" will over time take on an altruistic role to stabilize and maintain the system. If you read my link on group selection above they are the functional equivalent of the fluorescens that maintain the polymer.
2) What influence will these true believers have on the ecosystem?
They will have an ever growing influence because true believers form a large percentage now and they stick around while those who erroneously think this is a zero-sum game are unlikely to enter or will come and go.
Yes there is competition and speculation. These fuel interests and motivate people to enter and explore the ecosystem but they are ultimately secondary. Competition of this kind fuels growth but as bitcoin block rewards dwindle to zero and knowledge of bitcoin becomes increasingly common these speculative opportunities fade unmasking the ever growing network of cooperative win-win interactions that represent the long term value of bitcoin.
Bitcoin is a self reinforcing consensus mechanism that ultimately screens for cooperation. There is a necessity for a degree altruism that is built in. This is most easily seen when looking at nodes. There is no financial incentive for any individual to run a node yet there are thousands of them despite that fact that pure economic self-interest would dictate free riding on someone else's node. The bitcoin consensus system is cleverly piggybacked on a delivery vector of speculation leveraging human greed to attract broad interest while selectively retaining those most interested in long term cooperation.
Bitcoin is an overarching consensus system organized around the concept of sound money. Those voluntarily participating in this consensus are required to behave transparently and do work with the ultimate aim of ensuring all network participants abide by the greater consensus. Nodes who choose not to follow the protocol, miners who submit invalid proof of work, and users who try to spend bitcoins without verified private keys, are simply ignored and excluded by the greater consensus.
Bitcoin is a form of group selection and group selection entails that group behavior be referenced to something outside the group. This something outside is the concept groups cohere and organize around. It is what they cooperate to promote. In the case of bitcoin the referenced object is the conceptual idea of a sound and ideal money.
People who believe bitcoin has no long term future are unlikely to participate in the system in any sustained manner. If you believe bitcoin is just a scam you may participate in the periphery trying to make money but logic will dictate you constantly keep one foot in the doorway. You will hesitate at being involved in anything but the most superficial manner.
Probably you will choose not to invest at all but if you do then you are likely to cash out of the system at some point choosing to take your profits and leave the "tulip bubble" you have no confidence in. In this manner those who do not appreciate the underlying consensus mechanism will be diluted and replaced over time by those more interested in long term cooperation and building value.
It helps to understand what group selection is. Here is a basic introduction:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/whats-good-for-the-group/
What you say doesn't contradict what I'm saying. You may claim that there is a hard core of "true believers" which ARE indeed a community. Most probably, yes, there is probably a hard core community of true believers. However, the questions are:
1) how much of the ecosystem do they make up at any given moment in time
2) what influence can they have on the ecosystem ?
The way bitcoin is designed to be, turns around antagonism: we all want to possess coins, and if you possess a coin, I don't and vice versa, which makes us de facto antagonists ; there is competition in proof of work mining and the gains that go with it ; and deep down, it turns around speculation (which is a zero sum game). There's nothing in bitcoin that is designed to be cooperative, apart from having to stick to the consensus protocol for reasons of greater loss if you don't.
1) How large is the community of "true believers"?
This is unknown but I suspect the "true believers" control a huge percentage of the bitcoins and this is a good thing.
Bitcoin came on the scene as the obscure technical pet project of idealists, anarchist, open source advocates and libertarians who wanted to improve the world and reform the status quo.
These "true believers" will over time take on an altruistic role to stabilize and maintain the system. If you read my link on group selection above they are the functional equivalent of the fluorescens that maintain the polymer.
2) What influence will these true believers have on the ecosystem?
They will have an ever growing influence because true believers form a large percentage now and they stick around while those who erroneously think this is a zero-sum game are unlikely to enter or will come and go.
Yes there is competition and speculation. These fuel interests and motivate people to enter and explore the ecosystem but they are ultimately secondary. Competition of this kind fuels growth but as bitcoin block rewards dwindle to zero and knowledge of bitcoin becomes increasingly common these speculative opportunities fade unmasking the ever growing network of cooperative win-win interactions that represent the long term value of bitcoin.
Bitcoin is a self reinforcing consensus mechanism that ultimately screens for cooperation. There is a necessity for a degree altruism that is built in. This is most easily seen when looking at nodes. There is no financial incentive for any individual to run a node yet there are thousands of them despite that fact that pure economic self-interest would dictate free riding on someone else's node. The bitcoin consensus system is cleverly piggybacked on a delivery vector of speculation leveraging human greed to attract broad interest while selectively retaining those most interested in long term cooperation.
June 06, 2017, 02:11:51 AM
I give up. 
For what it is worth, I don't think you are NLC at all .I humoured him. He had a literary flair at times. The geezer porn was too much. I didn't approve of the geezer porn. FWIW.
Now, which one of you is R0ach? We all know he can't be real.
June 06, 2017, 02:02:28 AM
I give up.
For what it is worth, I don't think you are NLC at all . 
June 06, 2017, 02:00:50 AM
Well this is a nice price to wake up to. Let's break $3k please.
To anyone hodling strong- well done guys.
To anyone hodling strong- well done guys.
June 06, 2017, 01:37:59 AM
Gonna place this prediction here for sake of posterity to look back in a few years:
This will be the dumbest comment you ever make in your life. Bitcoin is nothing more than a linked list with a get rich quick ponzi scheme built on top of it via halvings. Calling that sound money is a real knee slapper. If any random fool can create a linked list with a get rich quick scheme built on top of it in their basement, how is it "sound money"? It's not.
The whole thing is a giant rough consensus attack with no Schelling point. It is NOT solved by "network effect" either due to bitcoin inherently being a highly scalability constrained system from being multiple redundancy and storing everything forever. Fees will skyrocket and people will move to the next thing rather than face extreme usury. If everything goes off-chain instead to try and mitigate the fees, it would be no different from the current US dollar. Yea, you can try and drop the blockchain to lower redundancy and increase scalability like Fuserleer is doing with Emunie, but then it becomes even less sound money.
This is not like the Cambrian explosion of evolution where a lot of new things appear then it drops off. People will continuously create hundreds of these things every year to try and scam money from people as long as there's profit in it until the whole system just dilutes to nothingness and collapses. There will be a million digital scamcoins but still only one gold and silver. The alternative would be the state forcing draconian legislation on creation of cryptocurrency + running mining pools, etc, but at that point it will be a completely centralized "government coin" with no purpose to exist in the first place. In the end, most people working on cryptocurrency are just doing free labor R&D for the US govt and international banking cartel.
Quote from: anonymint
and now we have sound money with blockchains, so goodbye gold/silver.
This will be the dumbest comment you ever make in your life. Bitcoin is nothing more than a linked list with a get rich quick ponzi scheme built on top of it via halvings. Calling that sound money is a real knee slapper. If any random fool can create a linked list with a get rich quick scheme built on top of it in their basement, how is it "sound money"? It's not.
The whole thing is a giant rough consensus attack with no Schelling point. It is NOT solved by "network effect" either due to bitcoin inherently being a highly scalability constrained system from being multiple redundancy and storing everything forever. Fees will skyrocket and people will move to the next thing rather than face extreme usury. If everything goes off-chain instead to try and mitigate the fees, it would be no different from the current US dollar. Yea, you can try and drop the blockchain to lower redundancy and increase scalability like Fuserleer is doing with Emunie, but then it becomes even less sound money.
This is not like the Cambrian explosion of evolution where a lot of new things appear then it drops off. People will continuously create hundreds of these things every year to try and scam money from people as long as there's profit in it until the whole system just dilutes to nothingness and collapses. There will be a million digital scamcoins but still only one gold and silver. The alternative would be the state forcing draconian legislation on creation of cryptocurrency + running mining pools, etc, but at that point it will be a completely centralized "government coin" with no purpose to exist in the first place. In the end, most people working on cryptocurrency are just doing free labor R&D for the US govt and international banking cartel.
Roach, do you or you don't have any Bitcoins RIGHT NOW?
I am thinking about going to a gold/silver forum and troll them talking all the time about how Bitcoin is way superior to their stupid metals. It will be a way easier task than what you are doing here because the huge profits Bitcoin is giving atm in comparison to PM's would be on my side.
On second thought, I won't do it because:
A) I give a fucking shit about anything I am not already invested in.
B) I don't think it has no point doing it, and I assume most people invested in PM's are already well diversified and probably also have some Bitcoins already.
C) Maybe some day I will also buy some of those shiny metals even if just for contemplating another thing I were able to buy with my Bitcoins. Heck, I even already bought a TEN TRILLION (Zimbawean) DOLLARS note just for fun, so why not!
Again, do you even
June 06, 2017, 01:28:07 AM
Gonna place this prediction here for sake of posterity to look back in a few years:
This will be the dumbest comment you ever make in your life. Bitcoin is nothing more than a linked list with a get rich quick ponzi scheme built on top of it via halvings. Calling that sound money is a real knee slapper. If any random fool can create a linked list with a get rich quick scheme built on top of it in their basement, how is it "sound money"? It's not.
The whole thing is a giant rough consensus attack with no Schelling point. It is NOT solved by "network effect" either due to bitcoin inherently being a highly scalability constrained system from being multiple redundancy and storing everything forever. Fees will skyrocket and people will move to the next thing rather than face extreme usury. If everything goes off-chain instead to try and mitigate the fees, it would be no different from the current US dollar. Yea, you can try and drop the blockchain to lower redundancy and increase scalability like Fuserleer is doing with Emunie, but then it becomes even less sound money (or scale via partial order instead of total order and blackswan the system to death).
This is not like the Cambrian explosion of evolution where a lot of new things appear then it drops off. People will continuously create hundreds of these things every year to try and scam money from people as long as there's profit in it until the whole system just dilutes to nothingness and collapses. There will be a million digital scamcoins but still only one gold and silver. The alternative would be the state forcing draconian legislation on creation of cryptocurrency + running mining pools, etc, but at that point it will be a completely centralized "government coin" with no purpose to exist in the first place. In the end, most people working on cryptocurrency are just doing free labor R&D for the US govt and international banking cartel.
Quote from: anonymint
and now we have sound money with blockchains, so goodbye gold/silver.
This will be the dumbest comment you ever make in your life. Bitcoin is nothing more than a linked list with a get rich quick ponzi scheme built on top of it via halvings. Calling that sound money is a real knee slapper. If any random fool can create a linked list with a get rich quick scheme built on top of it in their basement, how is it "sound money"? It's not.
The whole thing is a giant rough consensus attack with no Schelling point. It is NOT solved by "network effect" either due to bitcoin inherently being a highly scalability constrained system from being multiple redundancy and storing everything forever. Fees will skyrocket and people will move to the next thing rather than face extreme usury. If everything goes off-chain instead to try and mitigate the fees, it would be no different from the current US dollar. Yea, you can try and drop the blockchain to lower redundancy and increase scalability like Fuserleer is doing with Emunie, but then it becomes even less sound money (or scale via partial order instead of total order and blackswan the system to death).
This is not like the Cambrian explosion of evolution where a lot of new things appear then it drops off. People will continuously create hundreds of these things every year to try and scam money from people as long as there's profit in it until the whole system just dilutes to nothingness and collapses. There will be a million digital scamcoins but still only one gold and silver. The alternative would be the state forcing draconian legislation on creation of cryptocurrency + running mining pools, etc, but at that point it will be a completely centralized "government coin" with no purpose to exist in the first place. In the end, most people working on cryptocurrency are just doing free labor R&D for the US govt and international banking cartel.
June 06, 2017, 01:24:39 AM
I sense delays in loading the forum. Things must be heating up 
June 06, 2017, 01:12:24 AM
June 06, 2017, 01:07:44 AM
I give up.
June 06, 2017, 01:05:21 AM
^^There, Lauda knows I wasn't him.
No, not at all. You were one of prime suspects for being NLC. To this day, I still suspect you due to the absurdity sometimes found in your posts.... oh, do tell, what's it like? Tango, moonwalk, waltz?
It's a small gif; the dance of my species. Not anything particular, just a *out of joy* dance. It shall be posted after $3k has been breached. I do not expect this to take much longer though. At this rate it could be sometime this week, heck even today! 
June 06, 2017, 12:59:19 AM
I have prepared a dance for once we hit $3k.
... oh, do tell, what's it like? Tango, moonwalk, waltz?
June 06, 2017, 12:58:26 AM
^^There, Lauda knows I wasn't him.
June 06, 2017, 12:53:10 AM
One of us here is NLC, it's like the hunt for satoshi, it will never end
After banning hundreds of bots, and some deep infiltrators who were actually NLC (one was even helping me with reports at the time!), I am positive that he's still around in this very thread.Back to the topic at hand, this surge has definitely surprised me. I knew that after so many attempts at breaking $2600 we were going higher. We are just about borderline to the "too fast too soon". I have prepared a dance for once we hit $3k.
June 06, 2017, 12:51:35 AM
NotLambChop sock spotted ^^
Lol. How many times do I have to tell you it wasn't me? He was a professional, a brilliant wordsmith, and a sociopath. I'm none of those things.
... precisely what NLC would say ... i'm just doing the math.
One of us here is NLC, it's like the hunt for satoshi, it will never end
Yeah almost, except for no one really cares about NLC, we just like to make fun of trolls that is all
June 06, 2017, 12:45:19 AM
NotLambChop sock spotted ^^
Lol. How many times do I have to tell you it wasn't me? He was a professional, a brilliant wordsmith, and a sociopath. I'm none of those things.
... precisely what NLC would say ... i'm just doing the math.
One of us here is NLC, it's like the hunt for satoshi, it will never end
June 06, 2017, 12:30:23 AM
Market Cap: $100,061,539,148
Congrats everyone...we going to the $trilllions next few yrs
Congrats everyone...we going to the $trilllions next few yrs
June 06, 2017, 12:24:20 AM
NotLambChop sock spotted ^^
Lol. How many times do I have to tell you it wasn't me? He was a professional, a brilliant wordsmith, and a sociopath. I'm none of those things.
June 06, 2017, 12:22:06 AM
NotLambChop sock spotted ^^
June 06, 2017, 12:14:02 AM
This goes here.
Can we take this moment and member the one who did all that hard work just so you could buy those cheap coins? I imagine s/he is somewhere in the restraining jacket trying to draw pictures of ponies on the wall with own feces. Bitcoin
Where dreams come to die
Where dreams come to die
Or sitting on a massive stash of coins she bought cheaply while bombarding us with FUD.
Bingo!
And only the strongest remain to tell the tale.
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