lol, bitcoin has to 560fold for them to catch up. hm... long shot. 
If bitcoin market cap were to equal that of gold's (today), that would be about the price.
#justsayin
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 17747. (Read 26608460 times)
February 12, 2017, 11:47:02 AM
If bitcoin market cap were to equal that of gold's (today), that would be about the price.
#justsayin
February 12, 2017, 11:44:18 AM
Is it really severely undervalued? Look at my post above with the transaction bandwidth edit. How is Bitcoin severely undervalued without diving into speculative growth? Bitcoin's primary draw is as an investment tool for speculation. How many of you here regularly use Bitcoin as a currency to buy and sell goods for?
Bitcoin isn't just a currency, and that's the whole point of it. If you think that this is all there is to it, then you don't truly understand where the underlying value stems from. How many people regularly use Gold in a similar fashion? Bitcoin's intent was to be a digital form of cash. It is both a currency and a means of payment processing. This was pointed out right in the whitepaper. Even if Bitcoin now fills a different space, its outward intention was to function as both a currency and payment processor.
Now don't get me wrong, Bitcoin can scale [not to the level of Visa I don't think], but it is highly likely it will not in any substantial way. If a dynamic block size is implemented along with blockchain pruning then we could see many times more transactions processed per second, but just a basic increase [not even looking at pruning] has not made any meaningful progress towards consensus. And even if the network could handle it, how many of you actually use Bitcoin to buy and purchase goods and why not just use any other payment processing network?
GBattaglia. You seem to be purposefully attempting to create a strawman argument with your emphasis on payment systems (which is only one part of bitcoin).
February 12, 2017, 11:39:01 AM
[edited out]
how about australia stock exchange daily trading volume as comparison in term of $
Can you explain your point about the australia stock exchange? Are you trying to say that bitcoin has more trade volume? and what is the point about that, if any?
February 12, 2017, 10:40:22 AM
Good morning Bitcoinland.
The battle for a grand continues... exactly $1000USD (Bitcoinaverage).
My guess is sideways a while longer before continuing up.
OK is now at par with Stamp and Finex. This is a good thing.
Exactly. Bitcoin has many uses.
What I see IRL is people, many of visible minorities, lined up to buy modest amounts of Bitcoins at local BTC ATMs.
Toronto is a city of many immigrants. I assume many of them are sending coins to family back home. It's the fastest and cheapest way to sent money abroad.
For me, it's a retirement savings plan with excellent growth. For others it's hedge against fiat devaluation.
Yes, it can also be used to purchase goods and services and to make donations, but that is still limited.
Hopefully that will expand.
The battle for a grand continues... exactly $1000USD (Bitcoinaverage).
My guess is sideways a while longer before continuing up.
OK is now at par with Stamp and Finex. This is a good thing.
Bitcoin isn't just a currency, and that's the whole point of it. If you think that this is all there is to it, then you don't truly understand where the underlying value stems from. How many people regularly use Gold in a similar fashion?
Exactly. Bitcoin has many uses.
What I see IRL is people, many of visible minorities, lined up to buy modest amounts of Bitcoins at local BTC ATMs.
Toronto is a city of many immigrants. I assume many of them are sending coins to family back home. It's the fastest and cheapest way to sent money abroad.
For me, it's a retirement savings plan with excellent growth. For others it's hedge against fiat devaluation.
Yes, it can also be used to purchase goods and services and to make donations, but that is still limited.
Hopefully that will expand.
February 12, 2017, 09:06:19 AM
And even if the network could handle it, how many of you actually use Bitcoin to buy and purchase goods and why not just use any other payment processing network?
i spend it relatively often but certainly less since fees went through the roof. after a price rise a lot of people will be inclined to spend some free cash but i guess that isn't really what it was originally intended for i'm sure. there's absolutely no reason for a non bitcoin user to obtain it to spend unless it's for something like a vpn or drugs.
February 12, 2017, 09:06:02 AM
fun fact:
all major exchanges listed on bitcoinwisdom show rarely seen close price levels. also € and russian ruble are within the same narrow range (current rates)
Bitstamp 1002.8
BTC-e 994.432
Bitfinex 999
OKCoin 995.71/6847.9
Ruble 1008.0 (btce)
€ 1007.7(kraken)
those are almost within 1% range. i cannot recall seeing them within such a thin range.
edit: almost
editII: its coiling up. breakout within few hours.
all major exchanges listed on bitcoinwisdom show rarely seen close price levels. also € and russian ruble are within the same narrow range (current rates)
Bitstamp 1002.8
BTC-e 994.432
Bitfinex 999
OKCoin 995.71/6847.9
Ruble 1008.0 (btce)
€ 1007.7(kraken)
those are almost within 1% range. i cannot recall seeing them within such a thin range.
edit: almost
editII: its coiling up. breakout within few hours.
February 12, 2017, 09:03:10 AM
Is it really severely undervalued? Look at my post above with the transaction bandwidth edit. How is Bitcoin severely undervalued without diving into speculative growth? Bitcoin's primary draw is as an investment tool for speculation. How many of you here regularly use Bitcoin as a currency to buy and sell goods for?
Bitcoin isn't just a currency, and that's the whole point of it. If you think that this is all there is to it, then you don't truly understand where the underlying value stems from. How many people regularly use Gold in a similar fashion? Bitcoin's intent was to be a digital form of cash. It is both a currency and a means of payment processing. This was pointed out right in the whitepaper. Even if Bitcoin now fills a different space, its outward intention was to function as both a currency and payment processor.
Now don't get me wrong, Bitcoin can scale [not to the level of Visa I don't think], but it is highly likely it will not in any substantial way. If a dynamic block size is implemented along with blockchain pruning then we could see many times more transactions processed per second, but just a basic increase [not even looking at pruning] has not made any meaningful progress towards consensus. And even if the network could handle it, how many of you actually use Bitcoin to buy and purchase goods and why not just use any other payment processing network?
February 12, 2017, 08:51:00 AM
Is it really severely undervalued? Look at my post above with the transaction bandwidth edit. How is Bitcoin severely undervalued without diving into speculative growth? Bitcoin's primary draw is as an investment tool for speculation. How many of you here regularly use Bitcoin as a currency to buy and sell goods for?
Bitcoin isn't just a currency, and that's the whole point of it. If you think that this is all there is to it, then you don't truly understand where the underlying value stems from. How many people regularly use Gold in a similar fashion? February 12, 2017, 08:40:25 AM
Yeah, a company sell off should have the same thing as Bitcoin's market cap. The problem is Bitcoin is not a company but is supposed to be looked at as a currency. Most people look at the $16Billion market cap and think that is the real worth of all Bitcoin in circulation, when in reality it is probably half that value as shown by the little break down I just did.
Try selling off 1/4 Dollars into metal and other currencies and see what happens. This perspective is really weird and unnecessary IMO. Grand total market cap with these numbers of sell off depreciation: $9.2Billion. About the cost of buying a small failing smartphone manufacturer [Nokia].
Why the market cap rush? It's obviously severely undervalued considering what it offers.Is it really severely undervalued? Look at my post above with the transaction bandwidth edit. How is Bitcoin severely undervalued without diving into speculative growth? Bitcoin's primary draw is as an investment tool for speculation. How many of you here regularly use Bitcoin as a currency to buy and sell goods for?
February 12, 2017, 08:34:26 AM
Keep in mind all these guys are mostly in for making money. I doubt that even one of them is a true Bitcoin lover.Also the Winklevoss bros are only business men, 100%.
my guess is that this bitcoin thing is - if it gets mainstream traction - their only chance to dwarf zuckerbergs social media empire. they have got 100k btc. (worth $100mio) one must have some sympathy for the coin to keep so many, imho.
zuckerberg is worth $56 billion. lol, bitcoin has to 560fold for them to catch up. hm... long shot.
^This.
For all the people who talk about Bitcoin being a global economic force and so on, they really need to put things in perspective. Bitcoin's market cap is at about $16,000,000,000 which is by averaging all coins at $1000. Now we all know that even if a fraction [say 1/4] of those coins were all sold off; the price would drop drastically. But lets look at the glass half full and say Bitcoin is worth $16Billion.
- AOL Bought Time Warner for $186 Billion.
- Vodafone Airtouch acquires Mannesmann – $185.1 Billion
- Pfizer Acquires Warner-Lambert – $87.3 Billion
- SBC Acquires AT&T – $83.1 Billion
- Exxon Acquires Mobil - $80 Billion
Or Microsoft purchased Lumia for $7.6 Billion which they just wrote off as a failure.
Bitcoin is chump change in the grand scheme of things.
how about australia stock exchange daily trading volume as comparison in term of $
February 12, 2017, 08:28:17 AM
Yeah, a company sell off should have the same thing as Bitcoin's market cap. The problem is Bitcoin is not a company but is supposed to be looked at as a currency. Most people look at the $16Billion market cap and think that is the real worth of all Bitcoin in circulation, when in reality it is probably half that value as shown by the little break down I just did.
Try selling off 1/4 Dollars into metal and other currencies and see what happens. This perspective is really weird and unnecessary IMO. Grand total market cap with these numbers of sell off depreciation: $9.2Billion. About the cost of buying a small failing smartphone manufacturer [Nokia].
Why the market cap rush? It's obviously severely undervalued considering what it offers. February 12, 2017, 08:26:02 AM
Now we all know that even if a fraction [say 1/4] of those coins were all sold off; the price would drop drastically.
Try selling 1/4 of the total stock of a company and see what would happen with it's market price. 
Bitcoin is chump change in the grand scheme of things.
That's just another sign of the underlying potential (price wise). was is the lesson we can have if ETF gets approved? that little time before that the price was manipulated to buy some cheap coins and after sell 2 times more about, if not more.
You should just remain patient. Yeah, a company sell off should have the same thing as Bitcoin's market cap. The problem is Bitcoin is not a company but is supposed to be looked at as a currency. Most people look at the $16Billion market cap and think that is the real worth of all Bitcoin in circulation, when in reality it is probably half that value as shown by the little break down I just did.
Now lets look at Bitcoin as a currency [and Bitcoin's use as a currency depends on its ability to make transactions]: Mastercard and Visa together can handle about 80,000 transactions per second, keep in mind those two probably only makeup about 80% of the market. Bitcoin handles about 3 transactions per second. Bitcoin can currently handle about 1/26,000 what Visa and Mastercard can. Or if we convert that into a decimal: 0.00003846153846153846
February 12, 2017, 08:11:26 AM
Keep in mind all these guys are mostly in for making money. I doubt that even one of them is a true Bitcoin lover.Also the Winklevoss bros are only business men, 100%.
my guess is that this bitcoin thing is - if it gets mainstream traction - their only chance to dwarf zuckerbergs social media empire. they have got 100k btc. (worth $100mio) one must have some sympathy for the coin to keep so many, imho.
zuckerberg is worth $56 billion. lol, bitcoin has to 560fold for them to catch up. hm... long shot.
^This.
For all the people who talk about Bitcoin being a global economic force and so on, they really need to put things in perspective. Bitcoin's market cap is at about $16,000,000,000 which is by averaging all coins at $1000. Now we all know that even if a fraction [say 1/4] of those coins were all sold off; the price would drop drastically. But lets look at the glass half full and say Bitcoin is worth $16Billion.
- AOL Bought Time Warner for $186 Billion.
- Vodafone Airtouch acquires Mannesmann – $185.1 Billion
- Pfizer Acquires Warner-Lambert – $87.3 Billion
- SBC Acquires AT&T – $83.1 Billion
- Exxon Acquires Mobil - $80 Billion
Or Microsoft purchased Lumia for $7.6 Billion which they just wrote off as a failure.
Bitcoin is chump change in the grand scheme of things.
Here. Even did some basic speculative calculations to put Bitcoin's real marketcap in perspective.
First 1/4 of BTC sold off at $1,000: $4 Billion
Second 1/4 of BTC sold off at $700: $2.8 Billion
Third 1/4 of BTC sold off at $400: $1.6 Billion
Fourth 1/4 of BTC sold off at $200: $800 Thousand
Grand total market cap with these numbers of sell off depreciation: $9.2Billion. About the cost of buying a small failing smartphone manufacturer [Nokia].
February 12, 2017, 08:09:12 AM
Now we all know that even if a fraction [say 1/4] of those coins were all sold off; the price would drop drastically.
Try selling 1/4 of the total stock of a company and see what would happen with it's market price. Bitcoin is chump change in the grand scheme of things.
That's just another sign of the underlying potential (price wise). was is the lesson we can have if ETF gets approved? that little time before that the price was manipulated to buy some cheap coins and after sell 2 times more about, if not more.
You should just remain patient. 
February 12, 2017, 08:05:32 AM
Pain in the butt some chinese exchanges have closed withdrawals for a month or so. Hope that doesn't create too much negativity.
However BTC has been steadily hovering around 1000 USD so I think that it's positive.
However BTC has been steadily hovering around 1000 USD so I think that it's positive.
February 12, 2017, 08:02:09 AM
Keep in mind all these guys are mostly in for making money. I doubt that even one of them is a true Bitcoin lover.Also the Winklevoss bros are only business men, 100%.
my guess is that this bitcoin thing is - if it gets mainstream traction - their only chance to dwarf zuckerbergs social media empire. they have got 100k btc. (worth $100mio) one must have some sympathy for the coin to keep so many, imho.
zuckerberg is worth $56 billion. lol, bitcoin has to 560fold for them to catch up. hm... long shot.
^This.
For all the people who talk about Bitcoin being a global economic force and so on, they really need to put things in perspective. Bitcoin's market cap is at about $16,000,000,000 which is by averaging all coins at $1000. Now we all know that even if a fraction [say 1/4] of those coins were all sold off; the price would drop drastically. But lets look at the glass half full and say Bitcoin is worth $16Billion.
- AOL Bought Time Warner for $186 Billion.
- Vodafone Airtouch acquires Mannesmann – $185.1 Billion
- Pfizer Acquires Warner-Lambert – $87.3 Billion
- SBC Acquires AT&T – $83.1 Billion
- Exxon Acquires Mobil - $80 Billion
Or Microsoft purchased Lumia for $7.6 Billion which they just wrote off as a failure.
Bitcoin is chump change in the grand scheme of things.
February 12, 2017, 07:57:45 AM
was is the lesson we can have if ETF gets approved? that little time before that the price was manipulated to buy some cheap coins and after sell 2 times more about, if not more.
February 12, 2017, 07:34:44 AM
Are they in for losing their credibility easily ?
I understand that it's only social media, but why they didn't wait for the hearing at the 11th then create that account unless, in a way or another, they are sure they will have the ETF operated ?!
I understand that it's only social media, but why they didn't wait for the hearing at the 11th then create that account unless, in a way or another, they are sure they will have the ETF operated ?!
I think we're all wondering about that. If the decision goes against them, their credibility will take a big hit, for sure.
Saying they'd have egg on their faces is an understatement. They'd be a laughingstock.
That's why I was wondering if they were privy to some inside information but not in a position to divulge it, or where it came from.
I guess there's not much we can do except wait and see what happens in March.
I have a simple reasoing on the matte: the US already handled lots of Bitcoins (seized coins from SR mostly). Why they should not keep a competitive advantage by giving a chance to a regulated Bitcoin ETF which bring some more taxes in?
I personally feel that this ETF has 85% chances of approval.
What country in the world will not let themselves rake in free money from just having money sitting in securities?
February 12, 2017, 07:26:17 AM
Keep in mind all these guys are mostly in for making money.
Of course they are but you have to respect their commitment. They've been in it since 2012 and lord knows how much money they've burnt in pursuit of a singular vision shared by virtually no one when they got going. The vast majority of the brats here haven't been in it that long and don't even have the balls to put their lunch money in.
February 12, 2017, 07:24:02 AM
seriously I don't know if it's a bull or bear trend now
what do you guys think?
what do you guys think?
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