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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 17822. (Read 26608448 times)

legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
BTC is under attack! ===> http://bitcointicker.co/networkstats/

 Shocked

by a difficulty increase and people making transactions?

Wait this looks normal to you? Going from 10k unconfirmed transactions to 65k in under 12hrs? Or you just trolling?
https://blockchain.info/charts/mempool-count?timespan=24h

No, I'm not trolling. Some simple math:

Say the network capacity is 15000 transactions per hour before the difficulty increase.  Now the difficulty jump reduces capacity by 17%. So now capacity is 2550 transactions per hour less. Now assuming transaction demand remains the same, in 12 hours you'll amass 30k transactions above capacity which go into the mempool.

So that alone explains more than half of the effect. No need to postulate a "spam attack". Any slight (10%) increase in demand at the same time would account for another 18k transactions making that 48k transactions, almost your measure 55k.


Wait even with you math, a sudden consistent spike of 10% in volume across the board right at the time of difficulty adjustment looks normal to you?
Now just a hypothetical, if you had limited resources and were to trying to spam the blockchain how exactly would you approach or perhaps time your attack?  Roll Eyeswe might be sending real users away to altcoins/paypal/...

I'm not ruling out a spam attack, what you say is correct.

I just don't like the going from "woah, there's 50k tx in the mempool" to "it must be a spam attack" when any 10% fluctuation in demand would explain it because this "jumping to conclusions" is really diverting the view from the actual problem we have here: namely that we might be sending real users away to altcoins/paypal/....

I don't want that happening, but I'm pretty sure it is.

Postulating a spam attack (because it doesn't look "normal") everytime we hit the usage ceiling negates the existence of this problem and effectively diverts energy from solving it. I offered a different view that explains what's happening as quite "normal" so we can focus on the problem at hand: not enough capacity.



Seems like you are trying to ignore the evidence that seems quite apparently a spam attack, and to the extent that there is any kind of capacity issue, seg wit seems to be a pretty good ready-to-go solution - hopefully, we can get that going soon and maybe that even could address some of the capacity issues and maybe even ameliorate some of the kinds of apparent attacks that are taking place...   I will concede that seg wit does seem to be so close, yet so far because it seems to be taking miners quite a bit of time to update their software, since signaling still seems to be under 30%...


That's funny cause actions like these cause the exact opposite reaction in me. Like every time there's blatant spam attack some BU supporter hilariously attempts to claim that it's normal organic growth. To a point where they lose all credibility and i find myself automatically starting to assume that it's shilling. Not that it can't be organic growth just because there's so much attempt at disinformation as if someone is trying too hard

The sad state of the bitcoin community.

2 camps and no meaningful discussion can take place because both sides assume the other side to be somehow evil.



Probably "assumptions of evil" begin to percolate when some folks attempt to describe something that is clearly spam as "organic growth" and then attempt to spin that there is some capacity issue.  Hm?  I wonder what would be a quick emergency solution to address these "organic growth" issues?  Maybe it is a more subtle attempt to try to get some kind of immediate hard limit increase in the blocksizes, while refusing to acknowledge that seg wit is already there as a great next step forward?

legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"



hey all... i'm seeing btc between $1000 and $2400 first half of the year due to china unable to short or stop btc from rising when they yell stop pumping btc.... china is barely able to keep btc under $1000...the chinese mega whale almost got called at $1150.... the breakout will happen . .. china is panicking over price of bitcoin.

Are you saying that BTC prices will be bouncing around within that price range for the next six months or so?

You must have finally decided to go long in bitcoin,..... hahahahahha...    Shocked

By the way, your current price range prediction is seeming quite broad...   Are you merely trying to hedge in order to be right no matter what or do you just not have any more specifics in your current thinking?  Don't get me wrong, it is not a bad prediction (even though it does seem a bit more optimistic than even me), if it were to be true... $1,000 as the new floor and $2400 as the ceiling (at least in the next 5-6 months).. whowza!!!


i always was long ...

Maybe you were?  I have no real way of knowing for sure about your holdings, but I do recall that when we were in the lower $400s, you spent a considerable amount of time pumping PMs, and you also spent quite a bit of time suggesting that the ONLY way for bitcoin was down.. and spreading quit a bit of other related an non-substantiated FUD-like content.. .. you and your butt buddy, the BJ-meister.

I have no problem with predictions and contributions that are largely opinion based, but sometimes there still remains some needs to back some of the opinions up and to attempt to have some realistic probabilities in whatever it is that you are predicting, no?  And, now, for the moment, you seem to be converting into a non-substantive bull, no?


legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1087
So was the start of year pump some Chinese insiders having one last hurrah? That might explain the insane price difference.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"


There is hardly any support for the argument in the linked article... maybe it is true that prices are going to drop and mid- $800s support is going to drop to bring prices down to the $600s, but it seems quite a bit too premature to make that determination.... because we gotta drop below upper $800s first, before mid $800s even becomes a question, no? 
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"


You're mostly right. Except there's money to be made during mad dips with the obligatory bounce back (or at the least increasing BTC count even if dollar value diminishes). But yes, day trading (without borrowing aka margin) and with .25% fees .... it's hard to consistently increase money value and BTC count.


I agree with you about attempting to protect yourself from some of the price volatility, but I don't agree with the strategy that you seem to be suggesting, which is to sell when you see (or believe) that the price is going to go down - you are going to get screwed too many times if you attempt to time that and to figure that out.

The safer strategy is to sell on the way up and to buy on the way down, and part of the trick is figuring out increments and amounts in order that you neither run out of BTC to sell or money to buy with if the price tanks.

I have been employing such a strategy of buying on the way down and selling on the way up, and it seems to work pretty well.

A couple more things:  1) I don't think that it is a good idea to employ the selling part of the formula until you have figured out your accumulation targets and attempt to sufficiently accumulate before selling any BTC and 2) it is also a good idea to attempt to figure out various BTC/fiat ratios that you want to attempt to maintain and follow at certain price points.  Of course, you can have some flexibility, but you should also try to have a plan or an outline, too so that you can attempt to stay within certain predetermined parameters - which is especially important during very high volatility periods, when you don't wanna get nervous and deviate too much from your predetermined plan.

I will try this. Gracias


Good luck, and it will be nice to hear back from you concerning how it is going. 

I personally think that it takes quite a bit of practice to hone these kinds of strategies to your own personal style, etc... , and it is good to start out with small amounts and work your way up.. and even now, I have a pretty decent stash of BTC, yet for the most part, I only trade less than 10% of my stash, but it still seems to be profitable to do so (yet I am not opposed to trading larger amounts in the future, if I believe it is prudent to do so).

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Below support, is where the hollow earth is... Shocked
sr. member
Activity: 812
Merit: 250
A Blockchain Mobile Operator With Token Rewards
legendary
Activity: 1844
Merit: 1338
XXXVII Fnord is toast without bread
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
oh price has returned to 888 now....  Shocked 
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
I feel $890 will be the resistance point for this drop, but I question whether we will be able to hit it.
I think if we drop to $880 then a large sell off will occur. Funny thing is the drop isn't coming from china, but they are following.

I'm not ballsy (read: stupid) enough to have fiat sitting around on exchanges to take advantage of little dips like this.

I know there are ways of insta-buying BTC, but none of them are available to me, so I'll be watching from the sidelines again...

I think that your first word, "ballsy" was more accurate.

I don't know where you are at, but maybe you should imagine what would happen to bitcoin prices if no one put any money on exchanges?

They are a necessary evil and it seems necessary at this time in bitcoin's life that some folks need to take some of those risks in order for bitcoin's price to be upheld... because prices seem to be largely set by exchanges.
legendary
Activity: 1844
Merit: 1338
XXXVII Fnord is toast without bread
I doubt that difficulty has anything directly to do with fewer transactions going through.  The more important metrics seem to be how many blocks are being processed per hour and whether those blocks are full or not.  I still stick by my assertion that such a sudden spike seems most logically to be a spam attack.

th dif went up 15% in <1 nano second, you need to understand that.

this was a huge dif incress increase, this indeed did significantly slow down the rate at which blocks are produced.
I concur
sr. member
Activity: 812
Merit: 250
A Blockchain Mobile Operator With Token Rewards
BTW china called and they said you can have your bitcoins back now.
sr. member
Activity: 812
Merit: 250
A Blockchain Mobile Operator With Token Rewards
I doubt that difficulty has anything directly to do with fewer transactions going through.  The more important metrics seem to be how many blocks are being processed per hour and whether those blocks are full or not.  I still stick by my assertion that such a sudden spike seems most logically to be a spam attack.

th dif went up 15% in <1 nano second, you need to understand that.

this was a huge dif incress, this indeed did significantly slow down the rate at which blocks are produced.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
Quote
BTC is under attack! ===> http://bitcointicker.co/networkstats/

 Shocked


they will learn that the bitcoin fees are cheaper than ... the exchange fees.





sr. member
Activity: 812
Merit: 250
A Blockchain Mobile Operator With Token Rewards
legendary
Activity: 1844
Merit: 1338
XXXVII Fnord is toast without bread
So what's the sentiment at the moment?  I am a bit confused what's been going on.

Are we all ok?

Mostly sideways for a while? I'm not feeling bullish or bearish.

You should be feeling very cautious given the extreme drop-off of volume coupled with a week long holiday from the country that was buying the most BTC for the last 8 years.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
BTC is under attack! ===> http://bitcointicker.co/networkstats/

 Shocked

by a difficulty increase and people making transactions?

Wait this looks normal to you? Going from 10k unconfirmed transactions to 65k in under 12hrs? Or you just trolling?
https://blockchain.info/charts/mempool-count?timespan=24h

^na it's real i have one i've been waiting on over 6hours ...zzz  Tongue

Of course the blockage is real.

Over the past several months, I have had several transactions that took 10 hours or more to go through, and I had a few transactions that took more than 30 hours.

Each of those transactions had more than sufficient fees; however, they were done while some kind of a spam attack was taking place, and therefore transactions were delayed.

Yes, there are some kinds of expectations that blocks are going to be full (because of organic growth), but these major spikes are not blockages due to organic growth, but instead they are purposeful spam attacks, and that should be obvious from the level of their spikes.


Whether and how to deal with it, and how big of a problem they are may be another story.

I understand that sometimes folks are going to become concerned that their transactions are not going through, and in that regard, they may be prejudiced by such delays.. .especially, if they were counting on the transaction going through quickly (like within an hour or two)... One thing that I have attempted to do is to just prepare myself for the possibility that any transaction could be delayed by a considerable amount of time because of these kinds of blockages.

One time (about a month and a half ago or so), I had a guy selling me bitcoins during one of these attacks, and he was a regular face to face and trusted person (more or less trusted), and the next day when he came back to do the second transaction, I told him that the first one had not gone through yet, and since I trusted him, I did not mind doing another one, but I was going to charge him 1.5% more.. on the transaction. so it was up to him whether he wanted to do the second transaction.  He said that he preferred to do the transaction because he needed the money, and we did it.  The funny thing about that one was that the attack seemed to continue to be going on, and within about 4 minutes, the second transaction went through, but the first one was still pending for nearly 24 hours (at that time).  Both transactions had more than sufficient fees, but the second one went through a lot quicker due to mere coincidence, it seems to me (the first one ultimately went through at about 31 hours).  

BTC is under attack! ===> http://bitcointicker.co/networkstats/

 Shocked

by a difficulty increase and people making transactions?

Wait this looks normal to you? Going from 10k unconfirmed transactions to 65k in under 12hrs? Or you just trolling?
https://blockchain.info/charts/mempool-count?timespan=24h

No, I'm not trolling. Some simple math:

Say the network capacity is 15000 transactions per hour before the difficulty increase.  Now the difficulty jump reduces capacity by 17%. So now capacity is 2550 transactions per hour less. Now assuming transaction demand remains the same, in 12 hours you'll amass 30k transactions above capacity which go into the mempool.

So that alone explains more than half of the effect. No need to postulate a "spam attack". Any slight (10%) increase in demand at the same time would account for another 18k transactions making that 48k transactions, almost your measure 55k.


I doubt that difficulty has anything directly to do with fewer transactions going through.  The more important metrics seem to be how many blocks are being processed per hour and whether those blocks are full or not.  I still stick by my assertion that such a sudden spike seems most logically to be a spam attack.
sr. member
Activity: 812
Merit: 250
A Blockchain Mobile Operator With Token Rewards
BTC is under attack! ===> http://bitcointicker.co/networkstats/

 Shocked

by a difficulty increase and people making transactions?

Wait this looks normal to you? Going from 10k unconfirmed transactions to 65k in under 12hrs? Or you just trolling?
https://blockchain.info/charts/mempool-count?timespan=24h

No, I'm not trolling. Some simple math:

Say the network capacity is 15000 transactions per hour before the difficulty increase.  Now the difficulty jump reduces capacity by 17%. So now capacity is 2550 transactions per hour less. Now assuming transaction demand remains the same, in 12 hours you'll amass 30k transactions above capacity which go into the mempool.

So that alone explains more than half of the effect. No need to postulate a "spam attack". Any slight (10%) increase in demand at the same time would account for another 18k transactions making that 48k transactions, almost your measure 55k.


Wait even with you math, a sudden consistent spike of 10% in volume across the board right at the time of difficulty adjustment looks normal to you?
Now just a hypothetical, if you had limited resources and were to trying to spam the blockchain how exactly would you approach or perhaps time your attack?  Roll Eyeswe might be sending real users away to altcoins/paypal/...

I'm not ruling out a spam attack, what you say is correct.

I just don't like the going from "woah, there's 50k tx in the mempool" to "it must be a spam attack" when any 10% fluctuation in demand would explain it because this "jumping to conclusions" is really diverting the view from the actual problem we have here: namely that we might be sending real users away to altcoins/paypal/....

I don't want that happening, but I'm pretty sure it is.

Postulating a spam attack (because it doesn't look "normal") everytime we hit the usage ceiling negates the existence of this problem and effectively diverts energy from solving it. I offered a different view that explains what's happening as quite "normal" so we can focus on the problem at hand: not enough capacity.




That's funny cause actions like these cause the exact opposite reaction in me. Like every time there's blatant spam attack some BU supporter hilariously attempts to claim that it's normal organic growth. To a point where they lose all credibility and i find myself automatically starting to assume that it's shilling. Not that it can't be organic growth just because there's so much attempt at disinformation as if someone is trying too hard

difficulty adjusted up 15%, the only reason the mem pool was under control was because miners where adding hash power like trump adding jobs and minning blocks 15% faster before.

this isnt "growth" or an "attack"

this is the backlog of DOOOOM  Shocked
legendary
Activity: 1844
Merit: 1338
XXXVII Fnord is toast without bread
BTC is under attack! ===> http://bitcointicker.co/networkstats/

 Shocked

by a difficulty increase and people making transactions?

Wait this looks normal to you? Going from 10k unconfirmed transactions to 65k in under 12hrs? Or you just trolling?
https://blockchain.info/charts/mempool-count?timespan=24h

No, I'm not trolling. Some simple math:

Say the network capacity is 15000 transactions per hour before the difficulty increase.  Now the difficulty jump reduces capacity by 17%. So now capacity is 2550 transactions per hour less. Now assuming transaction demand remains the same, in 12 hours you'll amass 30k transactions above capacity which go into the mempool.

So that alone explains more than half of the effect. No need to postulate a "spam attack". Any slight (10%) increase in demand at the same time would account for another 18k transactions making that 48k transactions, almost your measure 55k.


Wait even with you math, a sudden consistent spike of 10% in volume across the board right at the time of difficulty adjustment looks normal to you?
Now just a hypothetical, if you had limited resources and were to trying to spam the blockchain how exactly would you approach or perhaps time your attack?  Roll Eyeswe might be sending real users away to altcoins/paypal/...

I'm not ruling out a spam attack, what you say is correct.

I just don't like the going from "woah, there's 50k tx in the mempool" to "it must be a spam attack" when any 10% fluctuation in demand would explain it because this "jumping to conclusions" is really diverting the view from the actual problem we have here: namely that we might be sending real users away to altcoins/paypal/....

I don't want that happening, but I'm pretty sure it is.

Postulating a spam attack (because it doesn't look "normal") everytime we hit the usage ceiling negates the existence of this problem and effectively diverts energy from solving it. I offered a different view that explains what's happening as quite "normal" so we can focus on the problem at hand: not enough capacity.




That's funny cause actions like these cause the exact opposite reaction in me. Like every time there's blatant spam attack some BU supporter hilariously attempts to claim that it's normal organic growth. To a point where they lose all credibility and i find myself automatically starting to assume that it's shilling. Not that it can't be organic growth just because there's so much attempt at disinformation as if someone is trying too hard

It could be "organic" because the Chinese are trying to find the "exit" prior to the New Year's celebration.
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