Author

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 18004. (Read 26630322 times)

legendary
Activity: 961
Merit: 1000
The r0ach report vol 5 released.  I cover the whole FOA "freegold" theory vs bitcoin vs silver:

http://steemit.com/money/@r0achtheunsavory/if-there-s-any-plausible-conspiracy-involving-silver-and-bitcoin-this-is-it

There's a lot of stuff in there I'm sure many people here are not aware of in terms of monetary reset and ramifications.  

It will be interesting to see what other people think about my gold/silver/bitcoin allocation tables.



Haven't read much of the FOFOA stuff but some links in with what Rickards talked about in The Death of Money; if we can believe that the big players are co-operating behind the scenes to deal with the eventual monetary reset then that explains the big players buying up gold while it gets trashed in the press. Working theory being that once they all have a similar gold to gdp % ratio then an orderly reset can begin. If the reset happens outside of their control before then, so be it, but its coming.
legendary
Activity: 1844
Merit: 1338
XXXVII Fnord is toast without bread
hero member
Activity: 1876
Merit: 612
Plant 1xTree for each Satoshi earned!
Anyone know why btc-e is lagging so much behind?

West markets be like:





And China be like:








Fun stuff!!!  Cheesy  Cheesy ... Also China announce some big infrastructure thingy, developing new train, highways, electricity grids... (hmm... maybe high speed internet optics as well??)

Also India seems to have some currency problems and bank cash withdrawal restrictions. So we add another 1.5 billion people that might get desperate soon...


Choo!!!... Choo!!!...  Grin Grin


hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1001
If you assume price = constant + superimposed sinusoidal curve, with the amplitude of the curve big enough to trigger buying and selling, then by your method, you repeatedly buy low, sell high, over and over again. Which means you make money, assuming the spread and transaction costs are less than what you earn from buying low and selling high.

Any curve can be represented as a sum of sinusoidal curves, i.e. a Fourier series. Therefore, it becomes mathematically provable that your method, if properly implemented, will cause you to benefit from volatility.

I'd like to see that proof Smiley
A couple of problems I see with it:
1) you are talking about piecewise sinusoids (right? reset at each sudden price change?). That complicates any kind of frequency domain analysis. Lots of noise.
2) After a price change, how do you determine what phase (and amplitude) to start the next piece at?

If you really did mean fourier analysis of the whole price data, then you would see low frequency cycles with a bit of luck (but too many people already found those, so they're tiny). The sudden price moves add way too much noise to be able to detect anything sinusoidal at day trader frequencies.

I think that I understand that your criticism may encapsulate that humans are way too inconsistent in order to make such a system work mathematically as profitable - however, couldn't you program a bot to take out some of the human error and instead of having it set at really close intervals (like they probably do in china with no fees), they set them at intervals like $10 - or maybe more accurately to use percentage moves, like a .5 or 1% move in one direction triggers a sell, and then every equal increment.  Then buy backs would be 1% or more below the sales price.  Of course, there are variations about what increments to use and what quantities.

Percentages would definitely be the way to go, and the optimal percentages would depend on how wide you expect the price fluctuations to be. For example: if you expect LOTS and LOTS of +/- 10% fluctuations, then you're better off buying at the -10% and selling at the +10%. Suppose you model lots of +/- 3% fluctuations with very infrequent +/- 50% fluctuations ... in that case your idealized bot would probably have a pretty complex behavior. Deriving what exactly the ideal bot should do would be a very interesting exercise.
legendary
Activity: 3934
Merit: 11405
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
If you assume price = constant + superimposed sinusoidal curve, with the amplitude of the curve big enough to trigger buying and selling, then by your method, you repeatedly buy low, sell high, over and over again. Which means you make money, assuming the spread and transaction costs are less than what you earn from buying low and selling high.

Any curve can be represented as a sum of sinusoidal curves, i.e. a Fourier series. Therefore, it becomes mathematically provable that your method, if properly implemented, will cause you to benefit from volatility.

I'd like to see that proof Smiley
A couple of problems I see with it:
1) you are talking about piecewise sinusoids (right? reset at each sudden price change?). That complicates any kind of frequency domain analysis. Lots of noise.
2) After a price change, how do you determine what phase (and amplitude) to start the next piece at?

If you really did mean fourier analysis of the whole price data, then you would see low frequency cycles with a bit of luck (but too many people already found those, so they're tiny). The sudden price moves add way too much noise to be able to detect anything sinusoidal at day trader frequencies.

I think that I understand that your criticism may encapsulate that humans are way too inconsistent in order to make such a system work mathematically as profitable - however, couldn't you program a bot to take out some of the human error and instead of having it set at really close intervals (like they probably do in china with no fees), they set them at intervals like $10 - or maybe more accurately to use percentage moves, like a .5 or 1% move in one direction triggers a sell, and then every equal increment.  Then buy backs would be 1% or more below the sales price.  Of course, there are variations about what increments to use and what quantities.


Edit:  I wrote the above post before reading BTCtrader71's response.  His response does not seem inconsistent with mine, but seems a bit more eloquent and mathematically oriented than mine.  hahahaha  Wink
legendary
Activity: 3512
Merit: 4557
16B Market Cap!

Even bearstamp is now over $1000.!

I cant believe it $1000+ per coin  Cool and going up!

The hype in the mainstream media continues.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1001
Happy 2017 to everyone, I think the next step is the 1050$ if it breaks i don't have any idea what would be the next stop of this rally, maybe some old bitcoiners have an idea Cheesy ?

I think that we need to look at the current ATH as the next stop and a potential resistance point...

There is considerable potential that the current ATH would not be a resistance point because we are already so close to it, but I think that we still need to see how this price range plays out between $1060 and $1180

Seems to be plausible, i'm very cautious because it's my first time as a bitcoiner as i experience a rally a these prices, so thanks for your thoughts Smiley

If you are nervous about retaining value with your BTC holdings, you can sell a little bit on the way up.  Usually you do not want to sell too much because you could end up with a bunch of fiat and a lacking in BTC.  

Everyone is different regarding how they will do it, but I tend to sell 1% to 2% of my BTC holdings every $100 price rise of BTC in about every $10 to $15 increments (in other words staggered in both directions - up and down), and then I buy back when BTC prices go back down... therefore, on average I end up selling less than 1% for every $100 (and my BTC holdings grow overall with the same amount of investment, more or less).  

I started this selling strategy at a bit over $250 (but my selling between $250 and about $400 was an even smaller percentage of my BTC holdings because my BTC portfolio was then in the red) and today, I still have nearly 92% of my BTC holdings in BTC and the other 8% in fiat.  

Some kind of a strategy of taking profits (even small amounts) can help you to be less nervous during BTC volatile periods (which are almost inevitable) but I think that even with extensive practice a lot of us get nervous no matter what when the price becomes really volatile (especially when it goes down), so we have to figure out ways to hedge and to safeguard some of our nervousness that are tailored to our own situations.

This is an excellent strategy, imho, because you actually profit from volatility. IOW, a volatile price rise from A to B will leave you richer than a steady rise from A to B. You (the investor) win, at the expense of the speculators.



It actually seems to play out like that in practice, too, as long as you stick to your guns and continue to stagger your bets in both directions.... It probably works at bringing down some of the overall volatility too, if everyone were to engage in such a practice.  


If you assume price = constant + superimposed sinusoidal curve, with the amplitude of the curve big enough to trigger buying and selling, then by your method, you repeatedly buy low, sell high, over and over again. Which means you make money, assuming the spread and transaction costs are less than what you earn from buying low and selling high.

Any curve can be represented as a sum of sinusoidal curves, i.e. a Fourier series. Therefore, it becomes mathematically provable that your method, if properly implemented, will cause you to benefit from volatility.


... I agree that a bot could be programmed with such methodology and overall be profitable ...


A bot would definitely be nice for this kind of thing. When you see volatility, everyone else would be having a heart attack, and you could just sit back, think about your bot making money from the volatility plus the fact that you're making the world a better place by decreasing volatility, and smile Smiley


If you assume price = constant + superimposed sinusoidal curve, with the amplitude of the curve big enough to trigger buying and selling, then by your method, you repeatedly buy low, sell high, over and over again. Which means you make money, assuming the spread and transaction costs are less than what you earn from buying low and selling high.

Any curve can be represented as a sum of sinusoidal curves, i.e. a Fourier series. Therefore, it becomes mathematically provable that your method, if properly implemented, will cause you to benefit from volatility.

I'd like to see that proof Smiley
A couple of problems I see with it:
1) you are talking about piecewise sinusoids (right? reset at each sudden price change?). That complicates any kind of frequency domain analysis. Lots of noise.
2) After a price change, how do you determine what phase (and amplitude) to start the next piece at?

If you really did mean fourier analysis of the whole price data, then you would see low frequency cycles with a bit of luck (but too many people already found those, so they're tiny). The sudden price moves add way too much noise to be able to detect anything sinusoidal at day trader frequencies.

I've never done the proof formally, but the statement to be proved would be something along these lines:
- assume X% allocation bitcoin, and 100-X % allocation fiat at the beginning
- assume price starts at $A and ends at $B, with arbitrary path from A to B
- assume zero spread and zero fees (makes the math simpler, but you'd have to bear in mind this is an oversimplification of the model)
Strategy 1: no buying and no selling at all
Strategy 2: if your percent allocation of wealth in bitcoin rises above or below X% by some fixed amount D (let's say, +/- 5%) due to bitcoin price fluctuations, then buy or sell as needed to keep the % allocation within X +/- D %.

For example: if you set X at 50% at the beginning and D at 5%, then your bot will buy or sell as needed to keep your percent allocation within the range of 45% to 55%

The proof would basically say that Strategy 2 works better than Strategy 1. I think a few more assumptions are needed though. I'm not sure, but I think Strategy 2 is better if we assume that neither bitcoin nor the fiat becomes worthless. Suppose, for example, that the fiat hyperinflates a la Zimbabwe in 2009 or whenever. In that case, Strategy 2 would definitely be a BAD idea, because by the end you would have sold all your bitcoin and you'd have a zillion Zimbabwean dollars worth nothing. But if we assume the fiat currency stays stable, and bitcoin goes to the moon but does so in a very volatile fashion, then I'm pretty sure Strategy 2 can be proven to be superior.

EDIT:
Actually I might also have to assume that you start and end at the same price. Obviously if the price of bitcoin shoots up to $1M, you're better off if you didn't sell any of it at all during the rise, which means Strategy 1 would be better.
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
$1,000



Bitcoin just joined the

hero member
Activity: 576
Merit: 503
If you assume price = constant + superimposed sinusoidal curve, with the amplitude of the curve big enough to trigger buying and selling, then by your method, you repeatedly buy low, sell high, over and over again. Which means you make money, assuming the spread and transaction costs are less than what you earn from buying low and selling high.

Any curve can be represented as a sum of sinusoidal curves, i.e. a Fourier series. Therefore, it becomes mathematically provable that your method, if properly implemented, will cause you to benefit from volatility.

I'd like to see that proof Smiley
A couple of problems I see with it:
1) you are talking about piecewise sinusoids (right? reset at each sudden price change?). That complicates any kind of frequency domain analysis. Lots of noise.
2) After a price change, how do you determine what phase (and amplitude) to start the next piece at?

If you really did mean fourier analysis of the whole price data, then you would see low frequency cycles with a bit of luck (but too many people already found those, so they're tiny). The sudden price moves add way too much noise to be able to detect anything sinusoidal at day trader frequencies.
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
The r0ach report vol 5 released.  I cover the whole FOA "freegold" theory vs bitcoin vs silver:

http://steemit.com/money/@r0achtheunsavory/if-there-s-any-plausible-conspiracy-involving-silver-and-bitcoin-this-is-it

There's a lot of stuff in there I'm sure many people here are not aware of in terms of monetary reset and ramifications.  

It will be interesting to see what other people think about my gold/silver/bitcoin allocation tables.



thanks roach, been looking forward to that.

I bet if you got a regular blog going you'd build up quite a following.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
The r0ach report vol 5 released.  I cover the whole FOA "freegold" theory vs bitcoin vs silver:

http://steemit.com/money/@r0achtheunsavory/if-there-s-any-plausible-conspiracy-involving-silver-and-bitcoin-this-is-it

There's a lot of stuff in there I'm sure many people here are not aware of in terms of monetary reset and ramifications.  

It will be interesting to see what other people think about my gold/silver/bitcoin allocation tables.

legendary
Activity: 3934
Merit: 11405
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
Happy 2017 to everyone, I think the next step is the 1050$ if it breaks i don't have any idea what would be the next stop of this rally, maybe some old bitcoiners have an idea Cheesy ?

I think that we need to look at the current ATH as the next stop and a potential resistance point...

There is considerable potential that the current ATH would not be a resistance point because we are already so close to it, but I think that we still need to see how this price range plays out between $1060 and $1180

Seems to be plausible, i'm very cautious because it's my first time as a bitcoiner as i experience a rally a these prices, so thanks for your thoughts Smiley

If you are nervous about retaining value with your BTC holdings, you can sell a little bit on the way up.  Usually you do not want to sell too much because you could end up with a bunch of fiat and a lacking in BTC. 

Everyone is different regarding how they will do it, but I tend to sell 1% to 2% of my BTC holdings every $100 price rise of BTC in about every $10 to $15 increments (in other words staggered in both directions - up and down), and then I buy back when BTC prices go back down... therefore, on average I end up selling less than 1% for every $100 (and my BTC holdings grow overall with the same amount of investment, more or less). 

I started this selling strategy at a bit over $250 (but my selling between $250 and about $400 was an even smaller percentage of my BTC holdings because my BTC portfolio was then in the red) and today, I still have nearly 92% of my BTC holdings in BTC and the other 8% in fiat. 

Some kind of a strategy of taking profits (even small amounts) can help you to be less nervous during BTC volatile periods (which are almost inevitable) but I think that even with extensive practice a lot of us get nervous no matter what when the price becomes really volatile (especially when it goes down), so we have to figure out ways to hedge and to safeguard some of our nervousness that are tailored to our own situations.

This is an excellent strategy, imho, because you actually profit from volatility. IOW, a volatile price rise from A to B will leave you richer than a steady rise from A to B. You (the investor) win, at the expense of the speculators.



It actually seems to play out like that in practice, too, as long as you stick to your guns and continue to stagger your bets in both directions.... It probably works at bringing down some of the overall volatility too, if everyone were to engage in such a practice. 


If you assume price = constant + superimposed sinusoidal curve, with the amplitude of the curve big enough to trigger buying and selling, then by your method, you repeatedly buy low, sell high, over and over again. Which means you make money, assuming the spread and transaction costs are less than what you earn from buying low and selling high.

Any curve can be represented as a sum of sinusoidal curves, i.e. a Fourier series. Therefore, it becomes mathematically provable that your method, if properly implemented, will cause you to benefit from volatility.


I'm not clear about the math terminology, but I agree that a bot could be programmed with such methodology and overall be profitable, and I think that the profitability kind of assumes an overall upwards BTC price trajectory.  If the price trajectory goes down overall, likely the losses would be less than if no such system were followed, but it would not necessarily be profitable if the longterm price trajectory ends up being downwards.

Without a bot, there is both a potential for human error and also human impulsivity and emotions to sometimes cause actions that are not quite fitting with complete logical and technical inputs - that can also include accounting for various behaviors of other traders and the news, etc. that may cause deviation from the model.

   Maybe in the end, some of the human interventions can be minimized or averaged out so that they do not cause losses or gains that are outside of normal parameters?  Everyone likes to believe that they can kind of beat market averages, but frequently that ability to beat is proven to be quite difficult to achieve.   No matter what if a bot is not employed, there will tend to be a bit of human influence that can rise to a kind of gambling component that may or may not play out profitably.



hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1001
Happy 2017 to everyone, I think the next step is the 1050$ if it breaks i don't have any idea what would be the next stop of this rally, maybe some old bitcoiners have an idea Cheesy ?

I think that we need to look at the current ATH as the next stop and a potential resistance point...

There is considerable potential that the current ATH would not be a resistance point because we are already so close to it, but I think that we still need to see how this price range plays out between $1060 and $1180

Seems to be plausible, i'm very cautious because it's my first time as a bitcoiner as i experience a rally a these prices, so thanks for your thoughts Smiley

If you are nervous about retaining value with your BTC holdings, you can sell a little bit on the way up.  Usually you do not want to sell too much because you could end up with a bunch of fiat and a lacking in BTC. 

Everyone is different regarding how they will do it, but I tend to sell 1% to 2% of my BTC holdings every $100 price rise of BTC in about every $10 to $15 increments (in other words staggered in both directions - up and down), and then I buy back when BTC prices go back down... therefore, on average I end up selling less than 1% for every $100 (and my BTC holdings grow overall with the same amount of investment, more or less). 

I started this selling strategy at a bit over $250 (but my selling between $250 and about $400 was an even smaller percentage of my BTC holdings because my BTC portfolio was then in the red) and today, I still have nearly 92% of my BTC holdings in BTC and the other 8% in fiat. 

Some kind of a strategy of taking profits (even small amounts) can help you to be less nervous during BTC volatile periods (which are almost inevitable) but I think that even with extensive practice a lot of us get nervous no matter what when the price becomes really volatile (especially when it goes down), so we have to figure out ways to hedge and to safeguard some of our nervousness that are tailored to our own situations.

This is an excellent strategy, imho, because you actually profit from volatility. IOW, a volatile price rise from A to B will leave you richer than a steady rise from A to B. You (the investor) win, at the expense of the speculators.



It actually seems to play out like that in practice, too, as long as you stick to your guns and continue to stagger your bets in both directions.... It probably works at bringing down some of the overall volatility too, if everyone were to engage in such a practice. 


If you assume price = constant + superimposed sinusoidal curve, with the amplitude of the curve big enough to trigger buying and selling, then by your method, you repeatedly buy low, sell high, over and over again. Which means you make money, assuming the spread and transaction costs are less than what you earn from buying low and selling high.

Any curve can be represented as a sum of sinusoidal curves, i.e. a Fourier series. Therefore, it becomes mathematically provable that your method, if properly implemented, will cause you to benefit from volatility.
legendary
Activity: 4200
Merit: 4887
You're never too old to think young.
January 1 is behind us now (UTC) and what a lovely green candle it left behind.



Let's hope there are lots more to come in 2017
ImI
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1019
legendary
Activity: 3934
Merit: 11405
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
LOL Currently $999.99 at Stamp.

How's that for numerology fans?

JJG? Toknormal?  Grin

Don't forget the numerology king, se llama Torque.   
legendary
Activity: 3934
Merit: 11405
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
Happy 2017 to everyone, I think the next step is the 1050$ if it breaks i don't have any idea what would be the next stop of this rally, maybe some old bitcoiners have an idea Cheesy ?

I think that we need to look at the current ATH as the next stop and a potential resistance point...

There is considerable potential that the current ATH would not be a resistance point because we are already so close to it, but I think that we still need to see how this price range plays out between $1060 and $1180

Seems to be plausible, i'm very cautious because it's my first time as a bitcoiner as i experience a rally a these prices, so thanks for your thoughts Smiley

If you are nervous about retaining value with your BTC holdings, you can sell a little bit on the way up.  Usually you do not want to sell too much because you could end up with a bunch of fiat and a lacking in BTC. 

Everyone is different regarding how they will do it, but I tend to sell 1% to 2% of my BTC holdings every $100 price rise of BTC in about every $10 to $15 increments (in other words staggered in both directions - up and down), and then I buy back when BTC prices go back down... therefore, on average I end up selling less than 1% for every $100 (and my BTC holdings grow overall with the same amount of investment, more or less). 

I started this selling strategy at a bit over $250 (but my selling between $250 and about $400 was an even smaller percentage of my BTC holdings because my BTC portfolio was then in the red) and today, I still have nearly 92% of my BTC holdings in BTC and the other 8% in fiat. 

Some kind of a strategy of taking profits (even small amounts) can help you to be less nervous during BTC volatile periods (which are almost inevitable) but I think that even with extensive practice a lot of us get nervous no matter what when the price becomes really volatile (especially when it goes down), so we have to figure out ways to hedge and to safeguard some of our nervousness that are tailored to our own situations.

This is an excellent strategy, imho, because you actually profit from volatility. IOW, a volatile price rise from A to B will leave you richer than a steady rise from A to B. You (the investor) win, at the expense of the speculators.



It actually seems to play out like that in practice, too, as long as you stick to your guns and continue to stagger your bets in both directions.... It probably works at bringing down some of the overall volatility too, if everyone were to engage in such a practice. 

On the other hand, once you have staggered your bets with this kind of strategy, you are not precluded from some speculation on the margins (or from time to time seeing a pretty clear likely price direction and then hedging a little more in the anticipated direction, just for shits and giggles and a little more profits without putting a lot of your overall holdings at risk).



copper member
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1465
Clueless!
They sure are the weirdest exchange.

Could it be artificial and they are doing wash/rinse/repeat?
legendary
Activity: 2772
Merit: 2846
Anyone know why btc-e is lagging so much behind?

It normally lags behind all the other exchanges. These are the ATHs on stamp, finex, and btc-e.

Bitstamp $1163
Bitfinex $1175
Btc-e $1095

It was $70 to $80 below the others in the 2013 high. As others said it's got something to do with trading and withdrawal fees. It might cost more to withdraw from btc-e because it uses different fiat withdrawal channels to the others.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Bear with me
They sure are the weirdest exchange.
Jump to: