Author

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 18257. (Read 26609699 times)

legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
So I'm working on this, figured I'd give folks here a first peek since you're the ones that would appreciate having something like this.



The final product will have a better price display that I'm still working on, I just grabbed a zoom in of bitcoinity for this stage of development.

Price would probably be around $125 to $150 to make a profit.

Is this something you would buy?

member
Activity: 88
Merit: 10
Yo Bitcoin, you really banging!



Was it everything you thought it would be?
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
Andre, your rationale is broken.

Let's say tomorrow morning block size is 10mb.

I spam it to "full blocks". After all, fees are dirt cheap (even now, 42k txs were processed in the last 24hrs for near zero fees at the 0 to 9 satoshi range - https://bitcoinfees.21.co ) since there's around 0.7-0.8mb actual demand (or at least pretending to be actual by paying 10+ satoshi) and no practical fee competition for the rest 9.3mb.

So once I do that, I come and tell you that there is no room for new users because txs are maxed out.

Spot the fallacy.

No, it's your rationale that is broken. Because you assume that low paying txs are spam. But if they are spam, why pay anything? It's like saying the passenger who bough a $10 plane ticket isn't really going anywhere -- he's just spamming the airplane, because his ticket is so cheap (look! 42 of the 250 passengers had a $10 ticket on the last flight!). I disagree with your assumption. I think cheap customers are still real users of the airline. And by selling their seats to others who pay more, you are not flying more passengers. You are not increasing the user base.

You may disagree all you want but the reality of economics is that if you give the service for free or near-zero, it will attract abuse. And you can label that abuse as "use", to make the case for 10mb or 10GB blocks - which even them can be filled by abuse, and then you will be asking for 10 PB blocks: You implement circular logic, using the maxed transactions as evidence for "we can't have new users", forgetting that one can max out any tx limit if the cost for doing so tends to zero.

Your logic is also provably problematic, because altcoins have actually tried adaptive block sizes where the block just grows with use - and guess what happened.... Abuse happened. It started growing and growing in tx count, and then the blockchain was getting more bloated and more bloated, and guess what was the reaction... Minimum fee was raised. A LOT. So, in the end, while block size was "infinite" to cover any demand, in reality it was just only serving top-paying customers to keep bloat to a minimum and prevent spamming.

If the block has ample size for txs and if fee tends to zero, abuse will tend to max block size - just because some random hacker or script-kiddie wants to do that. You either implement a minimum fee threshold and larger sizes, or you let a block size that is ok for the market demands and allow a level of abuse with free/near-zero fees (like we have right now).
hero member
Activity: 737
Merit: 500
Andre, your rationale is broken.

Let's say tomorrow morning block size is 10mb.

I spam it to "full blocks". After all, fees are dirt cheap (even now, 42k txs were processed in the last 24hrs for near zero fees at the 0 to 9 satoshi range - https://bitcoinfees.21.co ) since there's around 0.7-0.8mb actual demand (or at least pretending to be actual by paying 10+ satoshi) and no practical fee competition for the rest 9.3mb.

So once I do that, I come and tell you that there is no room for new users because txs are maxed out.

Spot the fallacy.

No, it's your rationale that is broken. Because you assume that low paying txs are spam. But if they are spam, why pay anything? It's like saying the passenger who bough a $10 plane ticket isn't really going anywhere -- he's just spamming the airplane, because his ticket is so cheap (look! 42 of the 250 passengers had a $10 ticket on the last flight!). I disagree with your assumption. I think cheap customers are still real users of the airline. And by selling their seats to others who pay more, you are not flying more passengers. You are not increasing the user base.
legendary
Activity: 889
Merit: 1013
And the central banks are saying what they're doing isn't enough...that they need to think up some more extreme measures because the market isn't "reacting" the way they'd hoped when they opened the floodgates.

Everybody who is somebody knows there is only 1 option.  The monetary velocity has frozen; the debts are unserviceable; the only way forward is a giant revaluation of gold where all national currencies take a huge haircut in the process.  Each nation can't simultaneously devalue against each other in a currency war because then you accomplish nothing if everyone does it.  Instead of trying to rig gold in place and devalue against each other, they have to let gold float free and then re-integrate it somehow.

If you try to freeze gold in place and just print your way out of it, you get hyperinflation.  If you let gold free float and then let it rise and re-integrate it in some manner, then you might be able to avoid the eventual hyperinflation outcome of printing to avoid deflationary collapse.  It's kind of a situation where the writing is on the wall for the death of these fiat currencies, so they can either transition to gold and silver in a semi-turbulent but non-armageddon manner, or just have a new Dark Ages that comes with Weimar republic, wheelbarrow hyperinflation after they have to print to avoid deflationary collapse.

Of course, the conspiracy is, they might WANT a hard collapse to use as an excuse to usher in some new Jewish slave planation government model and one world currency they've cooked up.  The Jews love to hawk this stuff off to useful idiot Goys in high positions of power pretending they're all on the same team of "high tier big powerful guys", when the team is really just Zionist jews vs everyone else.  The goys in expensive suits are just disposable useful idiots who will be tossed out with the trash.  

All of you moron branch bankers reading this need to turn on the Jews before they turn on you.  When they took over Russia, the first thing they did was holocaust all the goys.  They'll try to put anyone in a high position of power who isn't a member of team Zionist in front of a firing squad after the dollar implodes and you have world chaos, just like Russia all over again.  And that's what will happen even if you willingly act as their useful idiot servant.  Why do you think they're trying to start war with Russia?  Because Russia was the last major victim of the Jews and they refuse to be scammed and murdered again.


I was with you up until the racism.
hero member
Activity: 737
Merit: 500
and also, let's build up (and continue to build up) our user base.

Not possible, Bitcoin is running at max capacity (250,000 tx per day). New users can only be added if existing users use Bitcoin less.

Maybe we can just agree to disagree?  I think that you are just making shit up, when you are suggesting that bitcoin is running at max capacity,

Do your homework for once. Look up the number of daily transactions, and look up how many transactions on average fit into 144 blocks of 1 MB. (I don't dare to point to any source anymore, because you'll say they perhaps fake the numbers. So choose your own source.)


Why do I need to do any further homework than I have already done?

Because you still don't get it.

Quote
Maybe this question of "maxed out" is a matter of perception, because I perceive bitcoin to be quite well functional and well under capacity,

I didn't say that the "functionality" is maxxed out (if such a thing even exists). Only the capacity. Which is maximum 250,000 transactions per day (1 block holds about 1700 tx, there are about 144 blocks in 24 hours). And the past half year there are about 200,000 to 250,000 tx per day on average. No perception here, just facts.

O.k... then your facts are a big so fucking what? 

So fucking correct.

I don't agree to disagree about facts. Now, are there on average 200,000 to 250,000 tx per day in during the last months or not? A simple 'yes' or 'no, look at this source here...' suffices.

I am suggesting to agree to disagree about the conclusion regarding the supposed facts and the extent to which the facts that you are presenting matter.  If it is maxed out, so fucking what, there is no problem being created..
[/quote]

Ah, the first tiny step towards acknowledging that Bitcoin is running at (almost) full capacity.

Quote
transactions are still being processed in a timely manner and for a relatively low fee level.. furthermore there are additional innovations on the cusp of being introduced.. so where is the problem exactly?

Of course, you have to keep digressing. A simple yes or no is too much to ask JJG.

Quote
And what are you suggesting to be the solution exactly?

I am way past suggensting anything to you. I'll stick with the cold hard facts. It's tough enough to let you understand those.

Quote
Are you suggesting that this supposed problem that you are asserting is interfering with adoption in any kind of significant and material way? 

Wow, sure! If all transactions are used, new transactions can only take place if other are not. Amazing, isn't it?

Quote
Are you suggesting that bitcoin prices are being held down because of such a supposed problem?

No, I fiercely resist making any suggestions. Still.

Quote
What is the problem, exactly?

That the user base cannot grow unless the existing users use Bitcoin less.

Quote
The burden is on you to describe the problem

And a burden it is. How many times did I describe the problem already? I lost count...

Quote
rather than on me to describe why there is not a problem

I didn't ask you that. I only asked for a source showing the number of daily transactions is less than 200,000-250,000 transactions per day (i.e. full capacity).


legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1126
It's all mathematics...!
Tweeted @ohyperjacked

Target price is 520$ within two weeks

Cheers

Totally agree Smiley

I think that's something inappropriate thoughts. Because I see that the growth of the bitcoin will continue until the end of the year 2016, So this is just the time when we are experiencing displacement use bitcoin became little more than a few months ago. keep most of the bitcoin we have and get the result at the end of the year. You don't worry I am sure the end of the year later price bitcoin will reach $ 1 k


Lots of moving pieces and it's more complex than meets the eye...

Just because ppl want 1k$ again for example is a reason to suck in unsavvy investors.
legendary
Activity: 4200
Merit: 4887
You're never too old to think young.
Good morning Bitcoinland.

Same old same old...  $578 on Bitcoinaverage. Nothing new here.
_______

@ Savetherainforest:

Yes I do have a white beard but not of the Popeye variety. The dude in my avatar is Mr. Natural, a character created by 1960s underground cartoonist Robert Crumb.



The beard's mid-length now. I trim it short every spring and let it grow until it's long enough by Christmas to put on my Santa tux and do my annual Xmas show.
_______

@ Infofront & Chef Ramsay:

I'd love to see a series between the Jays and Tigers. I hate the fact they moved the Tigers to the central division. I used to love the great rivalry we had back in the 1980s with Steib vs Morris, etc.

My mother was from Windsor Ontario so I grew up surrounded by Tigers culture. Before the Jays were created 40 years ago, the Tigers were my favorite AL team.

That said, go Jays go.
sr. member
Activity: 258
Merit: 250
gearbest.com has some nice stuff too

Also, it appears that the polo hack from 2015 is legit, and some of the login/pwd information is still working if those users have not recently changed pwds.
So, Public service announcement, Change your PWDS!
full member
Activity: 181
Merit: 117

Did you get a wall mount for it?

Just used 3 3M transparent wall mount hooks hack similar like this:

That's cool, I did some research beforehand and several people came up with their own wall mount solutions for tablets such as yours. There are some universal wall mounts that look pretty hideous and decent ones that cost over $150 just for the mount, but it is hidden.

The tablet I use is made to be mounted on the wall and the power chord is behind it so you can either run power behind (in the wall) it or just paint the line like I did.

I check out bensbargains.net very often, you can easily get an OK tablet for about $20-$40 range. I'm sure there is an equivalent deals site in Germany. Since they come in different sizes, a recessed mount is not suitable for the situation that you are going to replace it once a year. $150 would be crazy relative to the price of the tablet. I had to live with the wire exposed in some way. Maybe your solution is more tailored to people with OCD hahaha.
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas

Did you get a wall mount for it?

Just used 3 3M transparent wall mount hooks hack similar like this:

That's cool, I did some research beforehand and several people came up with their own wall mount solutions for tablets such as yours. There are some universal wall mounts that look pretty hideous and decent ones that cost over $150 just for the mount, but it is hidden.

The tablet I use is made to be mounted on the wall and the power chord is behind it so you can either run power behind (in the wall) it or just paint the line like I did.
full member
Activity: 181
Merit: 117
So I'm working on this, figured I'd give folks here a first peek since you're the ones that would appreciate having something like this.



The final product will have a better price display that I'm still working on, I just grabbed a zoom in of bitcoinity for this stage of development.

Price would probably be around $125 to $150 to make a profit.

Is this something you would buy?

I went to Walmart bought a cheap Android tablet for about $40. Then put on the weather app so I can check out the latest outside temperature and forecast. The challenge is to hide the charging cable. It's lot cheaper than buying a RaspberryPi and an extra LCD screen.

Did you get a wall mount for it?

Just used 3 3M transparent wall mount hooks hack similar like this:
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
So I'm working on this, figured I'd give folks here a first peek since you're the ones that would appreciate having something like this.



The final product will have a better price display that I'm still working on, I just grabbed a zoom in of bitcoinity for this stage of development.

Price would probably be around $125 to $150 to make a profit.

Is this something you would buy?

I went to Walmart bought a cheap Android tablet for about $40. Then put on the weather app so I can check out the latest outside temperature and forecast. The challenge is to hide the charging cable. It's lot cheaper than buying a RaspberryPi and an extra LCD screen.

Did you get a wall mount for it?
full member
Activity: 181
Merit: 117
So I'm working on this, figured I'd give folks here a first peek since you're the ones that would appreciate having something like this.



The final product will have a better price display that I'm still working on, I just grabbed a zoom in of bitcoinity for this stage of development.

Price would probably be around $125 to $150 to make a profit.

Is this something you would buy?

I went to Walmart bought a cheap Android tablet for about $40. Then put on the weather app so I can check out the latest outside temperature and forecast. The challenge is to hide the charging cable. It's lot cheaper than buying a RaspberryPi and an extra LCD screen.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 520
Tweeted @ohyperjacked

Target price is 520$ within two weeks

Cheers

Totally agree Smiley

I think that's something inappropriate thoughts. Because I see that the growth of the bitcoin will continue until the end of the year 2016, So this is just the time when we are experiencing displacement use bitcoin became little more than a few months ago. keep most of the bitcoin we have and get the result at the end of the year. You don't worry I am sure the end of the year later price bitcoin will reach $ 1 k
hero member
Activity: 576
Merit: 503
bfx is up to $0.55 now.
bitfinex is redeeming them - something like 1.2% converted to usd today Smiley
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
Tweeted @ohyperjacked

Target price is 520$ within two weeks

Cheers

Totally agree Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
So I'm working on this, figured I'd give folks here a first peek since you're the ones that would appreciate having something like this.



The final product will have a better price display that I'm still working on, I just grabbed a zoom in of bitcoinity for this stage of development.

Price would probably be around $125 to $150 to make a profit.

Is this something you would buy?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
And the central banks are saying what they're doing isn't enough...that they need to think up some more extreme measures because the market isn't "reacting" the way they'd hoped when they opened the floodgates.

Everybody who is somebody knows there is only 1 option.  The monetary velocity has frozen; the debts are unserviceable; the only way forward is a giant revaluation of gold where all national currencies take a huge haircut in the process.  Each nation can't simultaneously devalue against each other in a currency war because then you accomplish nothing if everyone does it.  Instead of trying to rig gold in place and devalue against each other, they have to let gold float free and then re-integrate it somehow.

If you try to freeze gold in place and just print your way out of it, you get hyperinflation.  If you let gold free float and then let it rise and re-integrate it in some manner, then you might be able to avoid the eventual hyperinflation outcome of printing to avoid deflationary collapse.  It's kind of a situation where the writing is on the wall for the death of these fiat currencies, so they can either transition to gold and silver in a semi-turbulent but non-armageddon manner, or just have a new Dark Ages that comes with Weimar republic, wheelbarrow hyperinflation after they have to print to avoid deflationary collapse.

Of course, the conspiracy is, they might WANT a hard collapse to use as an excuse to usher in some new Jewish slave planation government model and one world currency they've cooked up.  The Jews love to hawk this stuff off to useful idiot Goys in high positions of power pretending they're all on the same team of "high tier big powerful guys", when the team is really just Zionist jews vs everyone else.  The goys in expensive suits are just disposable useful idiots who will be tossed out with the trash.  

All of you moron branch bankers reading this need to turn on the Jews before they turn on you.  When they took over Russia, the first thing they did was holocaust all the goys.  They'll try to put anyone in a high position of power who isn't a member of team Zionist in front of a firing squad after the dollar implodes and you have world chaos, just like Russia all over again.  And that's what will happen even if you willingly act as their useful idiot servant.  Why do you think they're trying to start war with Russia?  Because Russia was the last major victim of the Jews and they refuse to be scammed and murdered again.
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 1422
I put some more funds in cold storage. They can't sit in any exchange waiting for the fun for too long. The price has been very steady and there's not so much trading on BTC happening. This thread is a good indicator of how to conduct trading.

It's the first time I see a -0.02% (!!!) variation in the weekly chart (according to the bitcoin ticker widget on Android).
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