Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 18334. (Read 26520204 times)

This is not about BTC vs. USD. This is about Lightning Network, and why it's not a scaling solution for Bitcoin.
Not everything is us vs. them.

Exactlly. That is why I am buying BTC.

Only I have 100% control. There is no government that can confiscate my Bitcoin. There is no government that can devaluate my savings in Bitcoin. That is why I do not need bank and their "interest".

But nothing could possibly go wrong with "LN-Operator," the one that's PayPal and I send my paychecks to every month? because ... what does the "LN-Operator" do, exactly? I want the nuts and bolts, so I know if we're on the same page.
Who, exactly, will I get my money back from? Walk me through this, I just sent my paycheck to PayPal "LN-Operator," and they went belly up.
What do I do?
Who returns my Bitcoin, the one that's distributed across millions of payment channels because "1,000,000 merchants"?

BTC Debit card company can go belly up. You will never see your bitcoins. Differnce is with LN channel. You will get money back. 100% guarantine

Those BTC Debit cards are as much Bitcoin as LN. More so. Without the bother of LN, SegWit, and all these scaling wars.

Just go and get a BTC-backed Debit Card, easy peasy, you're done

There's really no need to reinvent gift cards or prepaid credit cards. They're already invented, and work great no matter what currency you denominate them in Numbers are numbers.

But if you want to, we can start a prepaid BTC debit card company called Lightning. You got the looks, I got the ideas. Let's make a whole lot of money!

I agree with you. Card works fine. I'm explaining you how bitcoin will do the same better.

Please read the bold print above.

You know how many you spend for week or month. It is your bitcoin alocated. You can allocate as much as you wish. You will gain fast and cheap transactions. If you do not like then do not use.

LN-Provider will offer services: e.g. you can pay in this restaurants, buy in this shops ...

LN-Provider will offer: We cooperate with 1,000-1,000,000 other LN-Providers. It is not your problem, we will do it for you.

We do not need LN for this. This is how all credit cards work, now. Today.
Only with ordinary credit cards, I don't have to pay Visa upfront. Visa lets me buy shit and *then* bills me.
So I can already do what you want LN to do today, wit fiat.


I can also go and get one of those BTC Debit Cards, and make as many off-chain transactions as the VISA network could handle. Without LN-Operator. No fuss, no muss.

If you actually knew how to read or at least took some time to attempt to comprehend some of my posts in this thread (and other posts on this forum), you would likely come to realize that I provide sufficient numbers and probability predictions to the extent reasonable to make my points... Yeah, sometimes they could be made more precisely or concisely, but I make my own choices regarding how much time and effort to put into posts (in other words, my discretion).

  I have  never claimed to have any kind of insider information, yet sometimes I might claim to have a perspective that is different from other perspectives.  Anyhow, I am just attempting to provide my understanding of facts, logic and opinions based on my looking at various aspects of the BTC market (likely no different from any other genuine and non-troll poster).




You can believe whatever the fuck you want regarding what is a troll, and surely some folks (even real genuine folks) are ready, willing and able to spend more time on bitcoin than others...   Further, if you attempt to look at content of posts and to comprehend the content of those posts, then maybe you would come to more sound conclusions in your apparent emotional and probably just fake rants, possibly?  I have probably said enough because I am definitely having my doubts, at this time, about whether you are either capable or willing to contribute meaningful substance to this thread.

No, Odlav, it's not. 1000 LN-OPERATORS would need to have 1000 channels open and funded, to Hamburger Bob. Assuming Hamburger Bob does $2k worth of business a day, and gets his BTC from PayPal once a month, and further assuming that Hamburger Bob reups 10 times a month (with unidirectional [positive] cash flow window being 3 days, that's ... (3days * $2,000 + $4000_{to make sure the channel doesn't run dry on busy days}) * 1000different LLN-OPERATORS.

So the difference between $10,000 sitting in an open channel and $10,000,000 sitting in 1000 open channels. Just to serve Hamburger Bob, who don't do more than $2k worth of business a day.
allow me to quote:

I do not know who will be the first or who will be succesfull LN-Operator.
LN will enable -> customer to pay instantlly to some OPERATOR (payment in miliseconds)
And then OPERATOR will do everything for you just to make money and he will make payment to merchant (even in fiat if merchant wishes)

:-)

Are you Lambie ?
What if there is 1000 LN-OPERATORS. It is same as single 1.  999 others is same as other merchants to you AS CUSTOMER of your ONE LN-OPERATOR you choose.

Yes you have SINGLE pre-funded credit card and with this LN-CHANNEL you can pay to everybody who accepts paymetns from your operator. (or other co-operator)

Please Odalv, I want to learn. This is all so new and exciting, help me understand!


Sucks how people make up ludicrous, untenable bullshit up on the spot, and then just disappear. *puff!* And for what?
Why do it? Do people never call you on your shit, Odalv?

Bullish!

I'm not asking who it could be, I'm asking who it will be. As in the one LN-PROVIDER with "1,000,000 merchants." Or will there be competing "LN-PROVIDER[ s ]"with "1,000,000 merchants"? All of them with pre-funded channels to Hamburger Bob?

You mean as in one macro-payment, from my paycheck, so all my BTC goes to PayPal? Or every time I want to make a micro-payment?

You've just explained how pre-funded credit cards work, what does this have to do with Bitcoin?

LN-Provider can be BitPay/PayPal/Google.  You will pay to LN-OPERATOR instantlly, LN-OPERATOR will notify merchant and later LN-OPERATOR will pay to merchanat sum of all payments at once.

First I hear of this, sounds like bullshit to me. Walk me through? Who is this "LN-PROVIDER"? How does "LN-PROVIDER" transact with "1,000,000 merchants"?
Why is it that "Merchant will be ablle to open 1 channel with LN-PROVIDER to accept payments from ALL customers."

No really. I'm waiting.

Turning a decentralized P2P cash system into a quasi-centralized Hub and Spoke clearing system.

I think I understand it now.

The only thing I don't understand is why the miners would destroy their own business.

There are customers they pay for gods or services. There are merchants and they provide gods or services.  => Customer only pay. Merchant only accept bitcoins.

You as customer will be able to open only 1 channel with LN-PROVIDER to send bitcoins to 1,000,000 merchants.  Merchant will be ablle to open 1 channel with LN-PROVIDER to accept payments from ALL customers.

Can You understand now ?