Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 18726.

zimmah

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Quote from: StraightAArdvark on June 07, 2016, 01:46:09 PM

Quote from: zimmah on June 07, 2016, 01:41:22 PM

Why would you buy a coin just to sell it at a lower price?

Why did BBQ coiners buy BBQ coins, just to sell them for less? WTF is wrong with them? Didn't they realize that BBQ supply is limited, and, at each block reward halvening, their precious is *MATHEMATICALLY GUARANTEED* to double in price? FFS, how stupid those BBQers were! If they just held, they'd be rich as shit!!11!

Quote

I don't know what happened to BBQ coin and i don't care, because bitcoin isn't the same

This sort of willful ignorance, this willingness to cling to religious faith in their precious, that it's the Only True One, a special, unique snowflake, completely unlike scores of schemes structurally *just like it*, is what keeps people stupid and poor Sad

BBQ doesn't have value, so it's better to sell them at any price if they are going to collapse, instead of holding them and losing everything.

Limited supply only means something if someone actually wants those things.

Bitcoin has proven to be popular and useful, and the popularity only seems to grow.

Bitcoin isn't neccesarily diffeent from BBQ, but the thing that matters is the network effect.

MySpace wasn't any different from facebook, but myspace died, and facebook thrived. Why? because of network.

DaRude

legendary

Activity: 2833

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In order to dump coins one must have coins

Quote from: zimmah on June 07, 2016, 01:22:25 PM

Quote from: DaRude on June 07, 2016, 01:11:13 PM

Quote from: zimmah on June 07, 2016, 10:04:05 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on June 06, 2016, 08:15:23 PM

Cost of production is doubling in less than a month ... that will set the new floor for bitcoin price to the $840-960 range (at the minimum without difficulty increases) in the medium term.

Cost of production for a monetary good is the economic defence against counterfeiting. While gold is money, and sometimes attracts a monetary premium substantially above it's cost of production, for someone to produce gold "from nothing" they need to expend an equivalent amount of resources to the cost of production. Over long terms the price of the monetary good may be attracted to its cost of production but ultimately that is as cheap as you can acquire it for, as long as it is still desirable as a monetary good. For the same reason the lowest value of fiat paper money is the cost of the paper it is printed on and the ink, i.e. it's cost of production (about a few cents for a $100 bill).

While bitcoin is still valued as a monetary good, that can be transported in minutes across the internet as a final settlement for bearer instruments exchanged on a censorship-resistant network, it still needs to defend against counterfeiting. The cost of production defends against counterfeiting since this is as cheap as you can produce bitcoin. If bitcoin becomes more desirable for other reasons of its utility, such as store of value, medium of exchange (network effect increasing), etc., then it may easily attract a monetary good premium on top of the cost of production, but the cost of production has invariably set the floor for the lower bound on bitcoin prices, as long as it has remained a monetary good.

Bitcoin is still monetising.

agreed, the lower boundary of the rpcie is the production cost.

It could accidentally be below this value for a short time, but never for long.

The upper boundary is pretty much unlimited (limited only by the amount of value we can exchange for it). So the absolute upper value would be everything in the world divided by the amount of bitcoin in circulation. Of course we would never quite reach that value, but that would be the absolute upper limit it could never go above.

Ughh ingenious Roll Eyes

following that logic lets
Step 1: Increase difficulty 10x fold, thus increasing cost of production for all miners 10x
Step 2: Huh

Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

Just have to somehow get the note to investors for them to check the current productions costs before they decide the utility value of BTC and how much they should be willing to pay for BTC

A transaction has 2 sides, a buyer and a seller

Let's assume some people sell for less than the cost of production, eventually they will run out of coins to sell, and the only new coins on the market will be either coins that were bought before and resold (usually t a higher price, because no one would like to sell for less than they bought for, unless forced to do so). Or freshly mined coins, that well sell at least at the price of production, unless the miner is forced to sell for lower to cover his expenses, but if a miner continually sells at a loss, mining will be unprofitable for him, so eventually he'll be forced to quit.

Therefore, over time, the price will reach at least the price of production, because those who sell for less than that will run out of coins to sell.

I don't know how I can explain it any simpler.

No no and again no, seller doesn't set the price buyer does. Market couldn't care less what seller likes or doesn't like. Here's the price someone is willing to buy the BTC you produced if that's not profitable for you, you go out of business, you go out of business there's less hash power dificulty adjust all other miners are that tiny bit more profitable. Rinse and repeat.

On a separate note, everyone ignoring that BTC5k sell wall @ $576

StraightAArdvark

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: zimmah on June 07, 2016, 01:41:22 PM

Why would you buy a coin just to sell it at a lower price?

Why did BBQ coiners buy BBQ coins, just to sell them for less? WTF is wrong with them? Didn't they realize that BBQ supply is limited, and, at each block reward halvening, their precious is *MATHEMATICALLY GUARANTEED* to double in price? FFS, how stupid those BBQers were! If they just held, they'd be rich as shit!!11!

Quote

I don't know what happened to BBQ coin and i don't care, because bitcoin isn't the same

This sort of willful ignorance, this willingness to cling to religious faith in their precious, that it's the Only True One, a special, unique snowflake, completely unlike scores of schemes structurally *just like it*, is what keeps people stupid and poor Sad

zimmah

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1005

Quote from: StraightAArdvark on June 07, 2016, 01:39:43 PM

Quote from: zimmah on June 07, 2016, 01:22:25 PM

Quote from: DaRude on June 07, 2016, 01:11:13 PM

Quote from: zimmah on June 07, 2016, 10:04:05 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on June 06, 2016, 08:15:23 PM

Cost of production is doubling in less than a month ... that will set the new floor for bitcoin price to the $840-960 range (at the minimum without difficulty increases) in the medium term.

Cost of production for a monetary good is the economic defence against counterfeiting. While gold is money, and sometimes attracts a monetary premium substantially above it's cost of production, for someone to produce gold "from nothing" they need to expend an equivalent amount of resources to the cost of production. Over long terms the price of the monetary good may be attracted to its cost of production but ultimately that is as cheap as you can acquire it for, as long as it is still desirable as a monetary good. For the same reason the lowest value of fiat paper money is the cost of the paper it is printed on and the ink, i.e. it's cost of production (about a few cents for a $100 bill).

While bitcoin is still valued as a monetary good, that can be transported in minutes across the internet as a final settlement for bearer instruments exchanged on a censorship-resistant network, it still needs to defend against counterfeiting. The cost of production defends against counterfeiting since this is as cheap as you can produce bitcoin. If bitcoin becomes more desirable for other reasons of its utility, such as store of value, medium of exchange (network effect increasing), etc., then it may easily attract a monetary good premium on top of the cost of production, but the cost of production has invariably set the floor for the lower bound on bitcoin prices, as long as it has remained a monetary good.

Bitcoin is still monetising.

agreed, the lower boundary of the rpcie is the production cost.

It could accidentally be below this value for a short time, but never for long.

The upper boundary is pretty much unlimited (limited only by the amount of value we can exchange for it). So the absolute upper value would be everything in the world divided by the amount of bitcoin in circulation. Of course we would never quite reach that value, but that would be the absolute upper limit it could never go above.

Ughh ingenious Roll Eyes

following that logic lets
Step 1: Increase difficulty 10x fold, thus increasing cost of production for all miners 10x
Step 2: Huh

Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

Just have to somehow get the note to investors for them to check the current productions costs before they decide the utility value of BTC and how much they should be willing to pay for BTC

A transaction has 2 sides, a buyer and a seller

Let's assume some people sell for less than the cost of production, eventually they will run out of coins to sell,

No, they won't run out of coins to sell. If the people who own the (what, 16 million?) coins mined up to date, *those coins don't disappear*. They could be sold again and again, at a lower or higher price. Because that's how money works.

Quote

and the only new coins on the market will be either coins that were bought before and resold (usually t a higher price, because no one would like to sell for less than they bought for, unless forced to do so).

Remember BBQ coin? Who forced the shrewd BBQers to sell their precious at a loss? How is it possible that BBQ-flavored ~~monopoly money~~ asset with artificially limited supply is now worthless? According to you, it can only go one way -- to the moon!

Why would you buy a coin just to sell it at a lower price?

If enough people do that, sure the price will drop, but ti doesn't make any sense to do that, so seriously, why would that happen on a large scale?

It won't happen on a large scale, because it's unprofitable.

I don't know what happened to BBQ coin and i don't care, because bitcoin isn't the same as altcoins. Bitcoin has utility, altcoins are often just a get-rich-quick scam.

StraightAArdvark

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: zimmah on June 07, 2016, 01:22:25 PM

Quote from: DaRude on June 07, 2016, 01:11:13 PM

Ughh ingenious Roll Eyes

following that logic lets
Step 1: Increase difficulty 10x fold, thus increasing cost of production for all miners 10x
Step 2: Huh

Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

Just have to somehow get the note to investors for them to check the current productions costs before they decide the utility value of BTC and how much they should be willing to pay for BTC

A transaction has 2 sides, a buyer and a seller

Let's assume some people sell for less than the cost of production, eventually they will run out of coins to sell,

No, they won't run out of coins to sell. If the people who own the (what, 16 million?) coins mined up to date, *those coins don't disappear*. They could be sold again and again, at a lower or higher price. Because that's how money works.

Quote

and the only new coins on the market will be either coins that were bought before and resold (usually t a higher price, because no one would like to sell for less than they bought for, unless forced to do so).

Remember BBQ coin? Who forced the shrewd BBQers to sell their precious at a loss? How is it possible that BBQ-flavored ~~monopoly money~~ asset with artificially limited supply is now worthless? According to you, it can only go one way -- to the moon!

zimmah

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1005

Quote from: JimboToronto on June 07, 2016, 01:25:45 PM

A very late good morning Bitcoinland. Way too much booze way too late on an empty stomach last night.

I see the battle for $580 still rages on.

How much longer do we go sideways in the $565-$695 range before a breakout? It's been half a week now. Is this just the beginning of a longer sideways trend or do we start to move up again soon?

It's still not a deep enough dip for me to buy.

I don't think it will take long

China is getting ready for a breakout (looks like UP to me, but might as well be down. Either way, we'll know in max 2 days.

savetherainforest

hero member

Activity: 1876

Merit: 612

Plant 1xTree for each Satoshi earned!

Quote from: DaRude on June 07, 2016, 01:11:13 PM

Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

the next spike will be somewhere between $900-1400$ .. then it will go back down to $700-800$ and then go back up between $1500-2500$ and it will stay on that interval for a few months.

JimboToronto

legendary

Activity: 4242

Merit: 5039

You're never too old to think young.

A very late good morning Bitcoinland. Way too much booze way too late on an empty stomach last night.

I see the battle for $580 still rages on.

How much longer do we go sideways in the $565-$695 range before a breakout? It's been half a week now. Is this just the beginning of a longer sideways trend or do we start to move up again soon?

It's still not a deep enough dip for me to buy.

zimmah

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1005

Quote from: DaRude on June 07, 2016, 01:11:13 PM

Quote from: zimmah on June 07, 2016, 10:04:05 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on June 06, 2016, 08:15:23 PM

Cost of production is doubling in less than a month ... that will set the new floor for bitcoin price to the $840-960 range (at the minimum without difficulty increases) in the medium term.

Cost of production for a monetary good is the economic defence against counterfeiting. While gold is money, and sometimes attracts a monetary premium substantially above it's cost of production, for someone to produce gold "from nothing" they need to expend an equivalent amount of resources to the cost of production. Over long terms the price of the monetary good may be attracted to its cost of production but ultimately that is as cheap as you can acquire it for, as long as it is still desirable as a monetary good. For the same reason the lowest value of fiat paper money is the cost of the paper it is printed on and the ink, i.e. it's cost of production (about a few cents for a $100 bill).

While bitcoin is still valued as a monetary good, that can be transported in minutes across the internet as a final settlement for bearer instruments exchanged on a censorship-resistant network, it still needs to defend against counterfeiting. The cost of production defends against counterfeiting since this is as cheap as you can produce bitcoin. If bitcoin becomes more desirable for other reasons of its utility, such as store of value, medium of exchange (network effect increasing), etc., then it may easily attract a monetary good premium on top of the cost of production, but the cost of production has invariably set the floor for the lower bound on bitcoin prices, as long as it has remained a monetary good.

Bitcoin is still monetising.

agreed, the lower boundary of the rpcie is the production cost.

It could accidentally be below this value for a short time, but never for long.

The upper boundary is pretty much unlimited (limited only by the amount of value we can exchange for it). So the absolute upper value would be everything in the world divided by the amount of bitcoin in circulation. Of course we would never quite reach that value, but that would be the absolute upper limit it could never go above.

Ughh ingenious Roll Eyes

following that logic lets
Step 1: Increase difficulty 10x fold, thus increasing cost of production for all miners 10x
Step 2: Huh

Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

Just have to somehow get the note to investors for them to check the current productions costs before they decide the utility value of BTC and how much they should be willing to pay for BTC

A transaction has 2 sides, a buyer and a seller

Let's assume some people sell for less than the cost of production, eventually they will run out of coins to sell, and the only new coins on the market will be either coins that were bought before and resold (usually t a higher price, because no one would like to sell for less than they bought for, unless forced to do so). Or freshly mined coins, that well sell at least at the price of production, unless the miner is forced to sell for lower to cover his expenses, but if a miner continually sells at a loss, mining will be unprofitable for him, so eventually he'll be forced to quit.

Therefore, over time, the price will reach at least the price of production, because those who sell for less than that will run out of coins to sell.

I don't know how I can explain it any simpler.

DaRude

legendary

Activity: 2833

Merit: 1851

In order to dump coins one must have coins

Quote from: zimmah on June 07, 2016, 10:04:05 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on June 06, 2016, 08:15:23 PM

Cost of production is doubling in less than a month ... that will set the new floor for bitcoin price to the $840-960 range (at the minimum without difficulty increases) in the medium term.

Cost of production for a monetary good is the economic defence against counterfeiting. While gold is money, and sometimes attracts a monetary premium substantially above it's cost of production, for someone to produce gold "from nothing" they need to expend an equivalent amount of resources to the cost of production. Over long terms the price of the monetary good may be attracted to its cost of production but ultimately that is as cheap as you can acquire it for, as long as it is still desirable as a monetary good. For the same reason the lowest value of fiat paper money is the cost of the paper it is printed on and the ink, i.e. it's cost of production (about a few cents for a $100 bill).

While bitcoin is still valued as a monetary good, that can be transported in minutes across the internet as a final settlement for bearer instruments exchanged on a censorship-resistant network, it still needs to defend against counterfeiting. The cost of production defends against counterfeiting since this is as cheap as you can produce bitcoin. If bitcoin becomes more desirable for other reasons of its utility, such as store of value, medium of exchange (network effect increasing), etc., then it may easily attract a monetary good premium on top of the cost of production, but the cost of production has invariably set the floor for the lower bound on bitcoin prices, as long as it has remained a monetary good.

Bitcoin is still monetising.

agreed, the lower boundary of the rpcie is the production cost.

It could accidentally be below this value for a short time, but never for long.

The upper boundary is pretty much unlimited (limited only by the amount of value we can exchange for it). So the absolute upper value would be everything in the world divided by the amount of bitcoin in circulation. Of course we would never quite reach that value, but that would be the absolute upper limit it could never go above.

Ughh ingenious Roll Eyes

following that logic lets
Step 1: Increase difficulty 10x fold, thus increasing cost of production for all miners 10x
Step 2: Huh

Step 3: Bitcoin to da moon???

Just have to somehow get the note to investors for them to check the current productions costs before they decide the utility value of BTC and how much they should be willing to pay for BTC

dumbfbrankings

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: jbreher on June 07, 2016, 12:30:33 PM

Quote from: dumbfbrankings on June 06, 2016, 09:57:16 PM

Blockstream's entire future is dependent on Segwit. Jihan holds the power to deny them what they need, until they give him what he wants.

Well, Core _could_ capitulate on the 'anything less than 95% is evil' doctrine. That'd be fun.

It sure would. I have a feeling they may have to lower it far enough to negate F2pool as well. Say.... 50.001%?

Quote from: StraightAArdvark on June 06, 2016, 05:24:48 PM

And only hours to the (>$15) drop. Not trading advice, have been wrong before.
But not often

$100 flash crash on GDAX

XCASH

legendary

Activity: 929

Merit: 1000

Quote from: rjclarke2000 on June 07, 2016, 12:01:38 PM

A small correction and suddenly YYNBBbchnvv and his mates with names like 44TIZXbhmjh come out to play telling us it's a scamcoin piece of shit again.

Crazy.

If you look at a chart and zoom out to the 30 day view you can see the price has been range bound. It keeps chipping away at the walls below 4000 CNY and $600. After its broken through those walls there's not much resistance. Eventually its going through them despite the small corrections like todays.

barbs

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 1000

are the waters safe again?

jbreher

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1688

lose: unfind ... loose: untight

Quote from: dumbfbrankings on June 06, 2016, 09:57:16 PM

Blockstream's entire future is dependent on Segwit. Jihan holds the power to deny them what they need, until they give him what he wants.

Well, Core _could_ capitulate on the 'anything less than 95% is evil' doctrine. That'd be fun.

Syke

legendary

Activity: 3878

Merit: 1193

Quote from: Assmaster2000 on June 07, 2016, 11:06:02 AM

I'm so happy I didn't invest in scamcoin ETH, because if it wasn't a scam coin, I'd be pretty sad right about now.
http://s32.postimg.org/lh6113y7p/Capture.gif
Which I'm totally not.

Take your altcoin spam to the altcoin forum.

ETH price 1 month ago: .0248 BTC
ETH price today: .0251 BTC

Such growth!

rjclarke2000

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1016

A small correction and suddenly YYNBBbchnvv and his mates with names like 44TIZXbhmjh come out to play telling us it's a scamcoin piece of shit again.

Crazy.

zimmah

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1005

Price movements seem to indicate that by june 10th we would probably either break the 4000 CNY barrier (about $600) or we would drop back a bit.

StraightAArdvark

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: StraightAArdvark on June 07, 2016, 08:29:47 AM

Quote from: StraightAArdvark on June 06, 2016, 05:24:48 PM

And only hours to the (>$15) drop. Not trading advice, have been wrong before.
But not often

И нa cтapyxy бывaeт пpopyxa Sad

$564. Feels a bit better

savetherainforest

hero member

Activity: 1876

Merit: 612

Plant 1xTree for each Satoshi earned!

Quote from: becoin on June 07, 2016, 11:27:09 AM

Quote from: J4mie on June 07, 2016, 11:07:26 AM

Hopefully we can hold $500

Some dickhead thinks if they chart double top on the charts people will panic and dump their bitcoins. Won't happen. This corrections is just a buy opportunity.

Exactly! ... I made 5% already .. bought back in! Good profit is good!

becoin

legendary

Activity: 3431

Merit: 1233

Quote from: J4mie on June 07, 2016, 11:07:26 AM

Hopefully we can hold $500

Some dickhead thinks if they chart double top on the charts people will panic and dump their bitcoins. Won't happen. This correction is just a buy opportunity.

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 18726. (Read 26709827 times)