Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 19310. (Read 26623289 times)

I hear what you're saying, but in a way they are like Gox, except more professional and honest. If you don't hold the private keys, you don't own Bitcoin.  Bitshares is partnering in a decentralized exchange, so it is possible. I just would like to see some with anywhere close to the volume of Stamp or BFX.

Ideally we want an ecosystem so robust that fiat isn't the main onramp, but rather businesses trading goods and services for coin. There is no way to do that however without a meaningful fix to the scaling problem that doesn't involve third party middlemen.  If we need middlemen, then there is no point to this whole experiment. It is a failure.

Don't worry about my short. I have posted extra margin, so you can't blow it up without making me a lot more on my cold storage stash.

Rejoice!
Third Classic Block (399024) mined

Do you live in Holland? It's about 100km from my town to Arnhem, i got plans to visit Burger King the comming ore next weekend. ( i skip that "mystery event'').

The thought of my dad using a Trezor or Coinbase -- either one -- unsettles me a bit.
On par with imagining him scoring crack. At 2a.m. In the projects...

Things I honestly believe:
There’s no obvious incentive for people to run nodes. Given their importance, we should do everything we can to limit the disincentives.
Not every micro-transaction requires the full benefit of being on-chain.
Some of the most vocal core developers are kind of jerks.

These are fair concerns although far more unlikely than Mtgox if you understand how thorough VC investors are with their due diligence , and reasons why we should educate new users to quickly switch to a hardware wallet after on ramping. It really doesn't address my point that these companies provide a valuable service and can buffer any influx of new users. You aren't advocating that we tell non -technical people who are completely new to bitcoin to immediately buy a hardware wallet and meet some stranger in local bitcoins instead are you. Its one thing helping out a family member and giving free 1 on 1 support , but what about all the new users that doesn't have this option?

Buying coins on Coinbase or Circle does not add to tx bloat on the main chain for every purchase. We can have millions of new users onramped overnight without any problems whatsoever.

The irony is Coinbase and circle have mixed incentives to go with a conservative approach and aggressive on the chain approach. In one sense they would temporarily benefit from an influx of new users choosing free tx's and using their wallet to buy btc , on the otherhand they must fear the long term implications p2p decentralized on the chain payment channels pose their centralized wallets ... They really don't want to compete with every node as another payment channel. This is why there is so much desperation in Brain's tweets despite how silly it makes him sound.... he has some legitimate concerns for the longterm profitability of his company. I believe he needs to slowly evolve and offer different services :I.E...  bitcoin atms,  insured and specialty payment channels, consultancy services, business software solutions, ect...

They might run fractional reserve schemes at some point. Those will blow up like gox. We've seen the "PR disaster" and "negative impression" of that already.

Wallets are getting easier and safer to use every year. Unless we make everything more complex by introducing uneccessary features like RBF they can well be used by "normal people".

I'd rather have my dad use a trezor than coinbase.

i dont even..

Coin



Explanation

While I typically advice people to avoid using off the chain solutions and centralized bitcoin banks, it isn't fair to compare Mtgox to Coinbase and circle. There is a world of difference between the two... and it isn't irresponsible for new users to temporarily use these services while they learn about bitcoin. You have to weigh risks , and a new user has far more risk at losing their btc with a personal mistake, technical problem or virus than the risks inherent with a regulated and insured institution where their largest risk is capital gains taxes theft.

New users should just be made aware of the tradeoffs.


Sorry to burst your shorts , I'm buying more and encouraging others to jump on this train , now....Buy, Buy, Buy!(all of which uses 0 tx's of capacity from most orders)

Google MtGox & you may change your thinking. Seriously you're a Hero Member coming out with shit like this?

You are saying two contradictory things. Core wont cave or lose and the miners won't switch if people are still buying bitcoin. So knock off the "BUY BUY BUY!" shit until we get this resolved or it won't get resolved.

***Sigh*** ... no wonder this discussion has been so "complicated"
Some are still under the misapprehension that miners are the ones who vote on the direction of bitcoin and "make the final call"

https://twitter.com/olivierjanss/status/700325846532362241

If this were true it would defeat the whole raison d'être of bitcoin in the first place and only would apply if we still were all mining on cpu's... when those days are long over. Economic Nodes now have a stake in the game and the power dynamics are split and a dynamic inter-relationship between miners, users, devs, exchanges/processors, and  merchants.

We need better educational materials to inform the confused... or perhaps we may learn the hard way with a contentious HF and many people learning that even one person has the right and ability to fork the chain at any given moment with or without the miners.  

There are many devs that will support the alternative chain as well -

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/700316802853634048

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/700317058102226944

Ask Mark Karpeles.

So what if some people want to use exchanges or circles to hold their money instead of proper wallets. That doesn't make our money any more vulnerable.

TL;DR: P2P cash needs banks middlemen. Now more than ever
"Thus the Bitcoin dream turned belly up, turned green, bobbed to the scummy surface of cupidity unlimited, filled with gas, went bang in the noonday sun.” --Brainyquote.com

I'm in the small blocks camp now. Ask around. I'm legit.

In light of recent publicity, I don't think we need to worry about "millions of new users simply downloading electrum and flooding our ecosystem with questions and mistakes and losing their passwords, forgetting to backup their wallets, ect..." all that much.
We're relatively safe.

I understand that some may resent Brian for his recent trolling on twitter and thoughtless remarks, but I won't hold it against him. The reality is these off the chain solutions provide a temporary and valuable service to our community and new users are better at onramping onto them before they learn about the complexities of our ecosystem.

We don't want millions of new users simply downloading electrum and flooding our ecosystem with questions and mistakes and losing their passwords, forgetting to backup their wallets, ect... This would not only be a PR disaster but also create a negative impression of bitcoin that will make them think twice about using it for a long while.

You have to try and empathize with the mind of a new user being introduced to bitcoin and understand that many need to take incremental steps in learning and using it... onramp services like circle and coinbase are well suited to fill this role as they have better support, and handle the complex security for the clients, and the clients have to buy the bitcoins from them anyways so may as well setup a temporary wallet with them too.

FTFY