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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 19845. (Read 26609914 times)

legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
...
How secure should the network be? What's the sweet spot between cost and security?

The 'optimum' network security level is a variable that should increase with an increase in network value, since it is safe-guarding more as value increases.

We're currently paying ~10% of the network's worth, per year, to secure it. In other words, we're paying $1 to store $10 for a year.

1. Is this optimal?
2. If a bank charged you 10%, yearly, to store your money, would you use it?

... you've conflated the issuance of scarce tokens, that will be in circulation in perpetuity facilitating all future transactions, with the cost of securing of the network.

Cost of issuing tokens, you say? OK, I'll rephrase:
Would you use a bank which charged you 10% of your balance, yearly, to secure your money & print 'USDtokens' (which it would distribute to people other than yourself)?

If they could cryptographically prove they were only ever going to issue 21million of those USDtokens, and that proof was backed by the security of the largest distributed hashing power on the planet, maybe I would.

And if they just said "look, it's not in our best interest to ever issue more than 21M tokens, because reasons," would you still?
What if their word was backed by a shitton of Chinese hardware, capable of doing one thing and one thing only, and already nearly obsolete?

... now you've gone so far into hypotheticals that your analogy has been stretched beyond its usefulness and your arguments are simply ridiculously incomprehensible.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 531
Crypto is King.
...
How secure should the network be? What's the sweet spot between cost and security?

The 'optimum' network security level is a variable that should increase with an increase in network value, since it is safe-guarding more as value increases.

We're currently paying ~10% of the network's worth, per year, to secure it. In other words, we're paying $1 to store $10 for a year.

1. Is this optimal?
2. If a bank charged you 10%, yearly, to store your money, would you use it?

... you've conflated the issuance of scarce tokens, that will be in circulation in perpetuity facilitating all future transactions, with the cost of securing of the network.

Cost of issuing tokens, you say? OK, I'll rephrase:
Would you use a bank which charged you 10% of your balance, yearly, to secure your money & print 'USDtokens' (which it would distribute to people other than yourself)?
Your arguments are that of the utmost moot. I cackle in automated response to the disgustingly misleading filth that you spew. USD inflation yearly % + FED rates about to be hiked + TAXES + being an eternal slave to central banky's debt + limitless bank fees to use their toilet paper jew confetti = Much higher than 10%. The 10% rate you conjured up with your fear pr0n witchcraft, I might add.

#nomorefeedinglambie

Nothing conjured about the 10+% yearly BTC inflation -- 25 BTC is printed out of thin air every block. These blocks are mined at a rate faster than 1 every 10 minutes. You do the math.

Regarding taxes, banks don't charge those, governments do. You wouldn't know that -- you don't pay taxes. Because on the dole, you stupid skinhead hick Smiley




Again, your ignorance is strikingly that of a monkey that stumbled into your crack stash.


Quote
The Fed's income comes primarily from the interest on government securities that it has acquired...
http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12799.htm

Quote
gov·ern·ment se·cu·ri·ties
noun
bonds or other promissory certificates issued by the government.

Quote
DEFINITION of 'Government Security'
A bond (or debt obligation) issued by a government authority, with a promise of repayment upon maturity that is backed by said government. A government security may be issued by the government itself or by one of the government agencies.

 These securities are considered low-risk, since they are backed by the taxing power of the government.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/governmentsecurity.asp

Quote
How is the Federal Reserve System structured?

The Federal Reserve System was designed to give it a broad perspective on the economy and on economic activity in all parts of the nation. It is a federal system, composed of a central, independent governmental agency--the Board of Governors--in Washington, D.C., and 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks, located in major cities throughout the nation.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12593.htm



Try once more, you illiterate filth spewing ignoramus. The note one is forced to use via banks, is forcibly under a penance as soon as it is created. Show me where Bitcoin forces each hodler to pay someone 10% a year of the stash.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
hero member
Activity: 681
Merit: 507
just the order books in the west look bearish, most indicators still bullish. so I keep on hodling  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
...
How secure should the network be? What's the sweet spot between cost and security?

The 'optimum' network security level is a variable that should increase with an increase in network value, since it is safe-guarding more as value increases.

We're currently paying ~10% of the network's worth, per year, to secure it. In other words, we're paying $1 to store $10 for a year.

1. Is this optimal?
2. If a bank charged you 10%, yearly, to store your money, would you use it?

... you've conflated the issuance of scarce tokens, that will be in circulation in perpetuity facilitating all future transactions, with the cost of securing of the network.

Cost of issuing tokens, you say? OK, I'll rephrase:
Would you use a bank which charged you 10% of your balance, yearly, to secure your money & print 'USDtokens' (which it would distribute to people other than yourself)?

If they could cryptographically prove they were only ever going to issue 21million of those USDtokens, and that proof was backed by the security of the largest distributed hashing power on the planet, maybe I would.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 531
Crypto is King.
...
How secure should the network be? What's the sweet spot between cost and security?

The 'optimum' network security level is a variable that should increase with an increase in network value, since it is safe-guarding more as value increases.

We're currently paying ~10% of the network's worth, per year, to secure it. In other words, we're paying $1 to store $10 for a year.

1. Is this optimal?
2. If a bank charged you 10%, yearly, to store your money, would you use it?

... you've conflated the issuance of scarce tokens, that will be in circulation in perpetuity facilitating all future transactions, with the cost of securing of the network.

Cost of issuing tokens, you say? OK, I'll rephrase:
Would you use a bank which charged you 10% of your balance, yearly, to secure your money & print 'USDtokens' (which it would distribute to people other than yourself)?
Your arguments are that of the utmost moot. I cackle in automated response to the disgustingly misleading filth that you spew. USD inflation yearly % + FED rates about to be hiked + TAXES + being an eternal slave to central banky's debt + limitless bank fees to use their toilet paper jew confetti = Much higher than 10%. The 10% rate you conjured up with your fear pr0n witchcraft, I might add.

#nomorefeedinglambie
legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1094
Come on, bulls... You can pump this another 10$ (but NOT much more that that!) so I can open my short... Wink
full member
Activity: 174
Merit: 102
The pump group is sick about getting price up. We crossed 450 USD and 3000 CNY. No one wants to buy. Still. Everyone is waiting to dump some coins at a higher price.

I don't really give a crap about someone's money but the manupulators need to stop this before it's too late. This pump is doomed.

The other way is there's a scam behind some exchange (most likely a Chinese). This will be bad for Bitcoin. Expect a storm...



Did it ever occur to you that bitcoin may just be worth a lot more than it's current price?
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
Decentralized Jihad
The pump group is sick about getting price up. We crossed 450 USD and 3000 CNY. No one wants to buy. Still. Everyone is waiting to dump some coins at a higher price.

I don't really give a crap about someone's money but the manupulators need to stop this before it's too late. This pump is doomed.

The other way is there's a scam behind some exchange (most likely a Chinese). This will be bad for Bitcoin. Expect a storm...

legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
...
How secure should the network be? What's the sweet spot between cost and security?

The 'optimum' network security level is a variable that should increase with an increase in network value, since it is safe-guarding more as value increases.

We're currently paying ~10% of the network's worth, per year, to secure it. In other words, we're paying $1 to store $10 for a year.

1. Is this optimal?
2. If a bank charged you 10%, yearly, to store your money, would you use it?

... you've conflated the income from the issuance of scarce tokens, that will be in circulation in perpetuity facilitating all future transactions, with the cost of securing the network.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
Wha wha wha so many whiny bears, you carry on talking about irrelevant bids and asks and ignore the bigger picture, be my guest. But but blocks lol

Halving.
Difficulty increase.
Increased interest.

These are things that are affecting price. I fully expect to see nearer to $100mil in leverage longs when this really starts bubbling.

Good point. Because everyone wants to use a currency they can't use because it doesn't work Smiley

It works perfectly. You'll need to pay for what you use (the most secure system in the world). Full blocks is good foor Bitcoin as miners will get rich and start competing each other even harder for the spoils (and hence increase the security further).

Why cant anyone see this? It's so obvious.

How secure should the network be? What's the sweet spot between cost and security?

The 'optimum' network security level is a variable that should increase with an increase in network value, since it is safe-guarding more as value increases.
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
Still, it's full of geniuses lamenting the scarcity of the blockspace and the consequent fees, ignoring that economics is all about scarcities.
And since that's way too much ignoring, they must be trolls for hire.

Sure, someone disagrees with you. It must be a conspiracy.

Now, if you tried really hard you could possibly imagine that some people might genuinely be of the opinion that taking away one of Bitcoins main selling points this early on might be a bad idea.

I know. Mindblowing.



What would be BTC main selling points for you? Micro-TXs?
There is a thousand of alts for that.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
Calm down comrade. If you wait patiently, you too will get your loaf of bread place in the blockchain in good time.

But don't worry, if you have any concerns, you can make them heard through our Minister of Truth, Commissar Theymos.

He can wait forever, if he does not want to pay a damned fee for the service.
The free shit party is happening in some other place.

http://tpc.pc2.netdna-cdn.com/images/various_uploads/Capital_One_Card_Marx_330.jpg

Why even have a block reward? People should have been paying damned fees to fund mining since the beginning... oh wait... that'd be dumb as fuck and it would have failed already.

Still, it's full of geniuses lamenting the scarcity of the blockspace and the consequent fees, ignoring that economics is all about scarcities.
And since that's way too much ignoring, they must be trolls for hire.

I support free markets, miners should set their own block sizes and min fees, there are natural economic incentives compelling them to. (orphan risk) If there must be a centrally planned limit, it should act as a circuit breaker/malicious miner protection only. What we see now is a small group in control of the reference implementation donning their central planner hats and distorting the free market towards their own ideology or financial interests.
legendary
Activity: 2242
Merit: 3523
Flippin' burgers since 1163.
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
Calm down comrade. If you wait patiently, you too will get your loaf of bread place in the blockchain in good time.

But don't worry, if you have any concerns, you can make them heard through our Minister of Truth, Commissar Theymos.

He can wait forever, if he does not want to pay a damned fee for the service.
The free shit party is happening in some other place.




Are you saying we should change the BTC issuance schedule, perhaps stopping issuance now? That's redistribution of wealth, and it's holding the fee market back.

Or are you saying miners aren't being incentivized enough to keep the network secure enough, so in addition to the block subsidy we need fees to be higher? How do we determine how much security is needed and how much that should cost?

Or are you saying people should pay a fee just because?

Are you saying that you don't understand leaving everything as it is and let the free fee market do its job?
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC
Still, it's full of geniuses lamenting the scarcity of the blockspace and the consequent fees, ignoring that economics is all about scarcities.
And since that's way too much ignoring, they must be trolls for hire.

Sure, someone disagrees with you. It must be a conspiracy.

Now, if you tried really hard you could possibly imagine that some people might genuinely be of the opinion that taking away one of Bitcoins main selling points this early on might be a bad idea.

I know. Mindblowing.

legendary
Activity: 1615
Merit: 1000
Calm down comrade. If you wait patiently, you too will get your loaf of bread place in the blockchain in good time.

But don't worry, if you have any concerns, you can make them heard through our Minister of Truth, Commissar Theymos.

He can wait forever, if he does not want to pay a damned fee for the service.
The free shit party is happening in some other place.




Are you saying we should change the BTC issuance schedule, perhaps stopping issuance now? That's redistribution of wealth, and it's holding the fee market back.

Or are you saying miners aren't being incentivized enough to keep the network secure enough, so in addition to the block subsidy we need fees to be higher? How do we determine how much security is needed and how much that should cost?

Or are you saying people should pay a fee just because?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
What a great week   Smiley

Plural of Mongoose! How's Thailand?
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
Calm down comrade. If you wait patiently, you too will get your loaf of bread place in the blockchain in good time.

But don't worry, if you have any concerns, you can make them heard through our Minister of Truth, Commissar Theymos.

He can wait forever, if he does not want to pay a damned fee for the service.
The free shit party is happening in some other place.

http://tpc.pc2.netdna-cdn.com/images/various_uploads/Capital_One_Card_Marx_330.jpg

Why even have a block reward? People should have been paying damned fees to fund mining since the beginning... oh wait... that'd be dumb as fuck and it would have failed already.

Still, it's full of geniuses lamenting the scarcity of the blockspace and the consequent fees, ignoring that economics is all about scarcities.
And since that's way too much ignoring, they must be trolls for hire.
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