Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 20718.

OSCA

newbie

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Quote from: xyzzy099 on October 06, 2015, 02:15:38 PM

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 02:10:48 PM

*your
I'm good at spellinks, too.

Must you get all peevish, instead of sincerely thanking me for putting you on the road to mental health & clearing up your confusionses?

I would really like to see how Jorge's ideas stand up to academic scrutiny, wouldn't you, (ex)NLC?

Not sure what your issue is here.

No. That's why I'm reading this internet forum and not an academic journal.

As for yourself, feel free to commission him, sponsor him through Patreon, crowd-fund his research. See if you could better his current engagement & interest him in bitcoin research. Free market at work.

Better still, lead by example! I encourage you to publish. Surely there's a skoolarly artikel in you somewhere, no? Perchance even a little book?
In the meantime, kindly allow him to opine on this internet forum with the rest of us.

adamstgBit

legendary

Activity: 1904

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Trusted Bitcoiner

the FUD is unwarranted even if we keep the 1MB limit ( which we aren't ) all that would really do for the foreseeable future is price out mirco TX's and bring the TX cost at about 10cents, buying over priced coffee is still feasible, and we are still undercut paypals 2% +50cents TX fee massively

adamstgBit

legendary

Activity: 1904

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Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: ssmc2 on October 06, 2015, 02:33:08 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on October 06, 2015, 02:28:55 PM

we just spiked to 260!!!!!!!! Shocked

ssmc2

legendary

Activity: 2002

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Quote from: adamstgBit on October 06, 2015, 02:28:55 PM

we just spiked to 260!!!!!!!! Shocked

adamstgBit

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1037

Trusted Bitcoiner

we just spiked to 260!!!!!!!! Shocked

conspirosphere.tk

legendary

Activity: 2352

Merit: 1064

Bitcoin is antisemitic

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 02:24:04 PM

So money is "sound" when it's super expensive to use? With sound money a 2-dollar cup of coffee costs $22 to buy?
Must use shitty fiat for real world stuffs?

OK, you win: buy stuff with your BTC so you won't have a reason to come back.

OSCA

newbie

Activity: 34

Merit: 0

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 02:14:54 PM

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 02:03:15 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:42:47 PM

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 01:40:21 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:35:04 PM

If it takes to pay a coffee with cash in order to keep BTC serious, I'm all for it.

"in order to keep BTC serious" as what, exactly? Surely not money?

Not consumerist money.
Would you pay with silver coins your frap-thing?

"Consumerist money"? What's that?
I guess all the hype about bitcoin being "the fastest, cheapest way to transact," "currency of the internet," is just that? BTC is not money but a store of value (a role which it hasn't been super good in for the last couple of years)?

Consumerist money is fiat which banks or gov'ts pull out of their arses liberally, therefore it's inflated and therefore it's the bad money which everyone try to get rid of as per the Gresham's law, which is why consumerism exists at all.
Serious money aka sound money is not like that shit.

So money is "sound" when it's super expensive to use? With sound money a 2-dollar cup of coffee costs $22 to buy?
Must use shitty fiat for real world stuffs?

adamstgBit

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1037

Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 02:03:15 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:42:47 PM

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 01:40:21 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:35:04 PM

If it takes to pay a coffee with cash in order to keep BTC serious, I'm all for it.

"in order to keep BTC serious" as what, exactly? Surely not money?

Not consumerist money.
Would you pay with silver coins your frap-thing?

"Consumerist money"? What's that?
I guess all the hype about bitcoin being "the fastest, cheapest way to transact," "currency of the internet," is just that? BTC is not money but a store of value (a role which it hasn't been super good in for the last couple of years)?

people are CONFUSED by the blocksize limit. people trying to rationalize a 7TPS monetary system holding value, the NEED to believe in bitcoin value is very powerful! Grin

bitcoin has always been about building a new monetary system which exist as a ghost outside the machine, accessible to all, anywhere anytime. don't worry, we will have our cake and eat it too, block size will increase and so will full node count, and it will be <5cent a TX and there will be totally free trustless "micropayment channels" and we'll have side chains processing stock market trades / smart contracts in a transparent and super fast irreversible irrefutable manner
give it 2 years
BAM 32,000$
Wink

xyzzy099

legendary

Activity: 1066

Merit: 1098

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 02:10:48 PM

*your
I'm good at spellinks, too.

Must you get all peevish, instead of sincerely thanking me for putting you on the road to mental health & clearing up your confusionses?

I would really like to see how Jorge's ideas stand up to academic scrutiny, wouldn't you, (ex)NLC?

Not sure what your issue is here.

conspirosphere.tk

legendary

Activity: 2352

Merit: 1064

Bitcoin is antisemitic

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 02:03:15 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:42:47 PM

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 01:40:21 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:35:04 PM

If it takes to pay a coffee with cash in order to keep BTC serious, I'm all for it.

"in order to keep BTC serious" as what, exactly? Surely not money?

Not consumerist money.
Would you pay with silver coins your frap-thing?

"Consumerist money"? What's that?
I guess all the hype about bitcoin being "the fastest, cheapest way to transact," "currency of the internet," is just that? BTC is not money but a store of value (a role which it hasn't been super good in for the last couple of years)?

Consumerist money is fiat which banks or gov'ts pull out of their arses liberally, therefore it's inflated and therefore it's the bad money which everyone try to get rid of as per the Gresham's law, which is why consumerism exists at all.
Serious money aka sound money is not like that shit.

JorgeStolfi

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: _biO_ on October 06, 2015, 01:51:33 PM

Convincing should be pretty easy if the rule change goes against the interest of the majority of the bitcoin community. And if it doesn't we don't have a problem in the first place.

Why should the miners take such a huge gamble. What kind of rule change would justify taking such a risk?

For definiteness, consider postponing the next halving by 2 years, but then reducing the halving interval to 2 years instead of 4, so that the total issuance woudl still be ~21 M BTC.

That change would means something like 150 million USD of extra revenue over 2 years to a majority mining cartel. (Too lazt to check the number now, but it is that order of magnitude.) That obviously could make the difference beween getting rich or going bankrupt,

So, the motivation for the miners would be very strong. All other players would be against that change in principle, because the would see little gain (or some loss) for them at various time scales, and "the protocol is sacred". But, if the change were to happen, they would not be directly harmed, and could live with it.

Would the cartel be able to impose that change on the rest of the community? I believe that it would. The "self-interest" argument works better the other way: why would the "economic majority" crash the price and lose all their investment, by trying to fight the cartel? In order to protect their investment, most holders and companies would pretend to approve the change, and would tell everybody that it was "good for bitcoin"...

bambou

sr. member

Activity: 346

Merit: 250

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 02:03:15 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:42:47 PM

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 01:40:21 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:35:04 PM

If it takes to pay a coffee with cash in order to keep BTC serious, I'm all for it.

"in order to keep BTC serious" as what, exactly? Surely not money?

Not consumerist money.
Would you pay with silver coins your frap-thing?

"Consumerist money"? What's that?
I guess all the hype about bitcoin being "the fastest, cheapest way to transact," "currency of the internet," is just that? BTC is not money but a store of value (a role which it hasn't been super good in for the last couple of years)?

Hmyea, was just "Hype" to shave the consumerist sheeps and their VC lords. Grin

Now, as the global financial crisis looms, back to the serious business of ensuring the robustness and inalienability of the network.

OSCA

newbie

Activity: 34

Merit: 0

Quote from: xyzzy099 on October 06, 2015, 01:59:29 PM

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 01:54:47 PM

Quote from: xyzzy099 on October 06, 2015, 01:39:47 PM

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 01:17:32 PM

Quote from: xyzzy099 on October 06, 2015, 01:05:17 PM

[yet another ~~eight~~four-paragraph opinion from yet another opinionated poster on this thread]

Passive-aggressive, to boot Undecided

?

I'm not being passive-aggressive, nor (I think) am I being particularly opinionated by suggesting that I would prefer to see Dr. Stolfi's ideas taken to the next level, rather than just encouraging him to continue to post random opinions.

He is the only poster on here that I know of that has identified himself specifically as an academic with an interest in Bitcoin, so that puts him in a unique position to educate us all with his erudite analysis of this subject.

Now that there is an official outlet for Dr. Stolfi's hard-won Bitcoin expertise, I would like to see him take advantage of it. Wouldn't you?

Sure you're passive-aggressive. Something about his doctorate just rubs you the wrong way (unpleasant grad school experience?), and so you vent. Every chance you get.
As far as I know, Jorge hasn't identify himself as an academic, but rather was outed as one. If the phrase "academic interest" misled you, it has nothing to do with degrees, tenure, or academic institutions.
Think "curiosity."

Apparently you're academic background is in psychology Roll Eyes

Thanks for the pop psychoanalysis. I value your opinion. Really.

*your
I'm good at spellinks, too.

Must you get all peevish, instead of sincerely thanking me for putting you on the road to mental health & clearing up your confusionses?

OSCA

newbie

Activity: 34

Merit: 0

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:42:47 PM

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 01:40:21 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:35:04 PM

If it takes to pay a coffee with cash in order to keep BTC serious, I'm all for it.

"in order to keep BTC serious" as what, exactly? Surely not money?

Not consumerist money.
Would you pay with silver coins your frap-thing?

"Consumerist money"? What's that?
I guess all the hype about bitcoin being "the fastest, cheapest way to transact," "currency of the internet," is just that? BTC is not money but a store of value (a role which it hasn't been super good in for the last couple of years)?

ChartBuddy

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 1823

1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Coin

Explanation

xyzzy099

legendary

Activity: 1066

Merit: 1098

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 01:54:47 PM

Quote from: xyzzy099 on October 06, 2015, 01:39:47 PM

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 01:17:32 PM

Quote from: xyzzy099 on October 06, 2015, 01:05:17 PM

[yet another ~~eight~~four-paragraph opinion from yet another opinionated poster on this thread]

Passive-aggressive, to boot Undecided

?

I'm not being passive-aggressive, nor (I think) am I being particularly opinionated by suggesting that I would prefer to see Dr. Stolfi's ideas taken to the next level, rather than just encouraging him to continue to post random opinions.

He is the only poster on here that I know of that has identified himself specifically as an academic with an interest in Bitcoin, so that puts him in a unique position to educate us all with his erudite analysis of this subject.

Now that there is an official outlet for Dr. Stolfi's hard-won Bitcoin expertise, I would like to see him take advantage of it. Wouldn't you?

Sure you're passive-aggressive. Something about his doctorate just rubs you the wrong way (unpleasant grad school experience?), and so you vent. Every chance you get.
As far as I know, Jorge hasn't identify himself as an academic, but rather was outed as one. If the phrase "academic interest" misled you, it has nothing to do with degrees, tenure, or academic institutions.
Think "curiosity."

Apparently you're academic background is in psychology Roll Eyes

Thanks for the pop psychoanalysis. I value your opinion. Really.

OSCA

newbie

Activity: 34

Merit: 0

Quote from: xyzzy099 on October 06, 2015, 01:39:47 PM

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 01:17:32 PM

Quote from: xyzzy099 on October 06, 2015, 01:05:17 PM

[yet another ~~eight~~four-paragraph opinion from yet another opinionated poster on this thread]

Passive-aggressive, to boot Undecided

?

I'm not being passive-aggressive, nor (I think) am I being particularly opinionated by suggesting that I would prefer to see Dr. Stolfi's ideas taken to the next level, rather than just encouraging him to continue to post random opinions.

He is the only poster on here that I know of that has identified himself specifically as an academic with an interest in Bitcoin, so that puts him in a unique position to educate us all with his erudite analysis of this subject.

Now that there is an official outlet for Dr. Stolfi's hard-won Bitcoin expertise, I would like to see him take advantage of it. Wouldn't you?

Sure you're passive-aggressive. Something about his doctorate just rubs you the wrong way (unpleasant grad school experience?), and so you vent. Every chance you get.
As far as I know, Jorge hasn't identify himself as an academic, but rather was outed as one. If the phrase "academic interest" misled you, it has nothing to do with degrees, tenure, or academic institutions.
Think "curiosity."

macsga

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1002

Strange, yet attractive.

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:42:47 PM

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 01:40:21 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:35:04 PM

If it takes to pay a coffee with cash in order to keep BTC serious, I'm all for it.

"in order to keep BTC serious" as what, exactly? Surely not money?

Not consumerist money.
Would you pay with silver coins your frap-thing?

IMHO, if BTC gets the place it deserves it won't have to be THE currency but A currency. We're now just below 5bn total. Imagine 5bn, being 50bn or even 500bn. There's a place in the chart that there's no turning back. I guess we will have to wait a bit for it to happen (if it happens at all anyway). But do not limit your thoughts to micro transactions. There are about a gazillion other coins for that.

_biO_

full member

Activity: 174

Merit: 102

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on October 06, 2015, 12:17:00 PM

Quote from: _biO_ on October 06, 2015, 11:17:16 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on October 06, 2015, 10:58:57 AM

I do have a half-written tech report detailing how a cartel of miners could force a change in the rules; but that has become common (if still denied) knowledge by now, so it would probably be rejected for that (if not for ideologocal reasons).

So let's say a majority of miners change the rules in a way that the rest of the bitcoin community does not agree with, then what?

What prevents the core developers from just changing the hash function, rendering all mining hardware useless and let the whole mining business start from scratch? Yeah it would be pretty messy, but the mere existence of that option keeps the miners in check.

That is the conventional argument that is used to dismiss that problem. It is like the Captain "defeating" a sailor''s mutiny by taking off in a small lifeboat and declaring it to be "the real ship"...

The Core developers would have to convince all bitcoin users to get into that small boat with them and discard the coins that they have on the carte's branch of the chain. Good luck on that...

Convincing should be pretty easy if the rule change goes against the interest of the majority of the bitcoin community. And if it doesn't we don't have a problem in the first place.

Why should the miners take such a huge gamble. What kind of rule change would justify taking such a risk?

conspirosphere.tk

legendary

Activity: 2352

Merit: 1064

Bitcoin is antisemitic

Quote from: OSCA on October 06, 2015, 01:40:21 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 06, 2015, 01:35:04 PM

If it takes to pay a coffee with cash in order to keep BTC serious, I'm all for it.

"in order to keep BTC serious" as what, exactly? Surely not money?

Not consumerist money.
Would you pay with silver coins your frap-thing?

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 20718. (Read 26610361 times)