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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 21265. (Read 26713238 times)

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1045
[...]
Sry, back to my gifs.



CCMF!!!


I'm Ok with gifs.


R3KT captured on tape... Grin Did the door open again or he had to hit his Willy to every concrete wall during his trip home? Tongue

no, but it did force the btc price up to over $1200 during nov 2013
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
I'm very satisfied with the leaps and bounds bitcoin has done in the last 3 months. April 12th, we saw the price dip below $220. In three months, we won't see it dip below $380.

I hope you are right. Sentiment does seem to be moving in the right direction at the moment
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500

Preparing for 300.

fun starts on fri  Wink

Today the price will move. I'm not sure which way. It depends on Greece.

If the reason that BTC rises is even linked to Greece, but tonight Greece parliament will decide so we'll have to wait a but longer.

sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250

Preparing for 300.

fun starts on fri  Wink

Today the price will move. I'm not sure which way. It depends on Greece.
legendary
Activity: 2758
Merit: 1075
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1002
Strange, yet attractive.
[...]
Sry, back to my gifs.



CCMF!!!


I'm Ok with gifs.


R3KT captured on tape... Grin Did the door open again or he had to hit his Willy to every concrete wall during his trip home? Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
I can't believe you guys are still talking about  intrinsic value....

Since I have no clue on how to explain intrinsic value. I looked it up lol

Watch the video midway down the page. Very simple now to understand or explain  Grin

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp



The problem occurred when aztecminer claimed that gold will always have intrinsic value. This problem can't be solved by purely looking at the problem through the specter of the financial definition of intrinsic value, since the basis of the premise is that the value of gold remains regardless of the market. So what do you have left? You can either claim that gold has intrinsic value, as in value in itself, through the specter of kantian concepts of value, which I doubt anyone is suggesting (come to think of it, not so sure anymore). Or, that gold has intrinsic value, value in itself, via a positivistic epistemological conception. I guess you could argue for this last one, but positivism is a very unsatisfactory basis for anything.

Edit: I might be reading too much into this.



When you have the concepts well defined, it is straighforward.

Gold has partly intrinsic value, it is directly useful, and "regardless of the market" (your words). The last human on the planet (no market) can use it for something for himself, for benefit or pleasure. Only, of course, if that individual prefers it to something else (subjective).

This is in fact essential to gold bugs. If gold should lose its money value (due to bitcoin may be), it will still be around, have value, traded in the market, dispersed among the people of the earth, due to its intrinsic value. Therefore, in a catastrophic technology event where computers disappear, gold can take on the money function, and in which case it will regain its money value. A plus for gold.

Bitcoin does not have that. If it goes to zero in a catastrophic event (which it can because there is no intrinsic value), there is no special reason that it will regain its value. The world could just as well start a new blockchain.

The intrinsic value of gold is also essential for Mises' regression theorem, which has also been discussed here thoroughly.

Just two examples of how useful the concept is.


legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC
I can't believe you guys are still talking about  intrinsic value....

Since I have no clue on how to explain intrinsic value. I looked it up lol

Watch the video midway down the page. Very simple now to understand or explain  Grin

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp



I am somewhat disbelieving too.

Sry, back to my gifs.



CCMF!!!
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
I can't believe you guys are still talking about  intrinsic value....

Since I have no clue on how to explain intrinsic value. I looked it up lol

Watch the video midway down the page. Very simple now to understand or explain  Grin

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp



I am somewhat disbelieving too.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005

You are obviusly not stupid, and yes, the value is defined not by the beer in itself, but individuals, considering it, all persons are different, so there is no yardstick, it is personal, psychological, individual. Every price you see, is the value from individuals preferring, with the help of their total life experience and individual needs, one thing over another. Is this your problem, do you think that therefore, we can not group value into two distinct types, intrinsic and speculative?


Oh, we can have many groups of value. In fact, I would say that intrinsic and speculative would surely not be enough since, in my book, intrinsic value would be an empty set. Speculative is a subset of extrinsic value since one might value something not merely because one hopes to exchange it for increased value/price later.

Now, the intrinsic properties of gold might have subjective value in the common sphere. It is shiny, resists corrosion, easily malleable, heavy (dense), all that jazz. But all those are location, time and context dependent.

At this stage, I think we both see where the other is coming from so there's little point beating it to death and there are many better places to read about the arguments. Austrian economics just tends to reject the idea of intrinsic value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value

Again, you seem to be fixed on the word subjective, as if it under discussion. Who talks about objective value? Not me. Your struggle with the word intrinsic, is as if you are hypnotized, and programmed to go into delirium mode when the word intrinsic is uttered.

Well your attitude is not helpful. It is destructive. It is a barrier to learning a meaningful aspect of money.

And no, there are no better places for this discussion. This is the best place.


The reason he might seem "as if [he is] hypnotized" is that that is what you are discussing. Does gold have intrinsic value? Is there such a thing as intrinsic value in economics or are all concepts of value in economics subjective? His position is a non-positivistic one.

Intrinsic value and subjective value are not opposite.

All value in economics is subjective, it is a strictly human concept, unmeasurable because it is different for every person, and it depends on everything in that persons life. Your question implies that only one of intrinsic and subjective is possible, and my response is no. Someone values something, it is subjective (it depends on the person valuing). That value can be either intrinsic to the thing valued, or the value can be decided by that individual based on the assumption that it can be exchanged for something else. That something else can also be exchange value (money value, speculative value), or it can be something of intrinsic value (value for direct use). In the end of the chain, there must be someting of intrinsic value, even if the time to exchange the money to something directly useful is deferred over generations. There is not much reason to collect money and keep them for ever, which is equivalent to destroying them.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC
I can't believe you guys are still talking about  intrinsic value....

Since I have no clue on how to explain intrinsic value. I looked it up lol

Watch the video midway down the page. Very simple now to understand or explain  Grin

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp



The problem occurred when aztecminer claimed that gold will always have intrinsic value. This problem can't be solved by purely looking at the problem through the specter of the financial definition of intrinsic value, since the basis of the premise is that the value of gold remains regardless of the market. So what do you have left? You can either claim that gold has intrinsic value, as in value in itself, through the specter of kantian concepts of value, which I doubt anyone is suggesting (come to think of it, not so sure anymore). Or, that gold has intrinsic value, value in itself, via a positivistic epistemological conception. I guess you could argue for this last one, but positivism is a very unsatisfactory basis for anything.

Edit: I might be reading too much into this.

sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
I can't believe you guys are still talking about  intrinsic value....

Since I have no clue on how to explain intrinsic value. I looked it up lol

Watch the video midway down the page. Very simple now to understand or explain  Grin

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp

legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
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