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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 21543. (Read 26623416 times)

legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

If a large group adopts bitcoin now, at the current price or at a higher price, they would be sharing their wealth with the early adopters in proportion.

For example, if Greece adopted bitcoin, and 9 million BTC were circulating there with a value equivalent to 10'000 USD/BTC, then Satoshi's 1 million BTC would allow him to buy 10 billion USD worth of Greek property.  Greece then would become 10 billion USD poorer.

That is why no sane government should allow privately issued money: the people who issue it take wealth from those who use it.

When the government issues more money, the government is taking wealth from its citizens, so it is just another tax.  It may be a stupid kind of tax, but people tolerate it because the government is supposed to give that wealth back as public services. 

When the banks issue more money through fractional reserve lending, they are taking that wealth for themselves.  Citizens should not tolerate that, but most do not understand what is going on.  I have only a foggy notion myself...

Good thing there is no such thing as a sane government
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

If a large group adopts bitcoin now, at the current price or at a higher price, they would be sharing their wealth with the early adopters in proportion.

For example, if Greece adopted bitcoin, and 9 million BTC were circulating there with a value equivalent to 10'000 USD/BTC, then Satoshi's 1 million BTC would allow him to buy 10 billion USD worth of Greek property.  Greece then would become 10 billion USD poorer.

That is why no sane government should allow privately issued money: the people who issue it take wealth from those who use it.

When the government issues more money, the government is taking wealth from its citizens, so it is just another tax.  It may be a stupid kind of tax, but people tolerate it because the government is supposed to give that wealth back as public services. 

When the banks issue more money through fractional reserve lending, they are taking that wealth for themselves.  Citizens should not tolerate that, but most do not understand what is going on.  I have only a foggy notion myself...
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
Adopting BTC as national currency would be suicide for Greece. Their problem is not that the Euro inflation is too high, but it is too low. Bitcoin is deflationary in the long term, so their debts would explode, when BTC price rises.

That would be contrary to the aforementioned Gresham's Law. I'd indulge you to read it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

The undervalued currency would (in this case) be the EUR. That means the debt in EUR will be lowered as the BTC would go up and finally eliminated when BTC reaches a high rate. Such an experiment is -of course- non applicable on a country under a sovereign coalition, so we can only assume here (both me and you) what we *think* it will happen.

You could also be right and me just typing nonsense here. Smiley

Thanks for the link, quite interesting lecture. My conclusion is that we talked about two different things: Gresham's Law is driven by the public, while the official legal tender is issued by more or less state-controlled institutions. It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

Yanis Varoufakis has an opinion regarding Bitcoin though. The following article is more than 2 years old and I am sure it has already been posted here. But maybe someone finds it interesting:

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/04/22/bitcoin-and-the-dangerous-fantasy-of-apolitical-money/

Yanis Varou-fuck-this.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1002
Strange, yet attractive.
Adopting BTC as national currency would be suicide for Greece. Their problem is not that the Euro inflation is too high, but it is too low. Bitcoin is deflationary in the long term, so their debts would explode, when BTC price rises.

That would be contrary to the aforementioned Gresham's Law. I'd indulge you to read it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

The undervalued currency would (in this case) be the EUR. That means the debt in EUR will be lowered as the BTC would go up and finally eliminated when BTC reaches a high rate. Such an experiment is -of course- non applicable on a country under a sovereign coalition, so we can only assume here (both me and you) what we *think* it will happen.

You could also be right and me just typing nonsense here. Smiley

Thanks for the link, quite interesting lecture. My conclusion is that we talked about two different things: Gresham's Law is driven by the public, while the official legal tender is issued by more or less state-controlled institutions. It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

Yanis Varoufakis has an opinion regarding Bitcoin though. The following article is more than 2 years old and I am sure it has already been posted here. But maybe someone finds it interesting:

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/04/22/bitcoin-and-the-dangerous-fantasy-of-apolitical-money/

Your conclusion is right; Bitcoin cannot be issued by Greek Govt. (like i.e. Drachma). The idea though, is to legalize its use as a second currency and let Gresham's law take over. I know about Varoufakis thesis on the subject but it seems he somehow changed his ideas from 2013:
1. http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/02/15/bitcoin-a-flawed-currency-blueprint-with-a-potentially-useful-application-for-the-eurozone/
2. http://www.grreporter.info/en/varoufakis_advisor_singaporean_bitcoin_company/12732

Look, we're chasing dragons here. I know what I'm proposing is beyond the wildest imagination of the most insane speculator here (NLC?  Grin ) but; that's what we are here for... right? Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?

Whilst I'm a massive bull & backer of bitcoin & it's future success there is no way a country can adopt bitcoin as its national currency right now.
Don't get me wrong it'd be great for bitcoins price & all of us financially but it's not ready to be a national currency.
It's pointless discussing any way because Greece aren't going to have it as their currency.

that is my point....
legendary
Activity: 3556
Merit: 9709
#1 VIP Crypto Casino
My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?

Whilst I'm a massive bull & backer of bitcoin & it's future success there is no way a country can adopt bitcoin as its national currency right now.
Don't get me wrong it'd be great for bitcoins price & all of us financially but it's not ready to be a national currency.
It's pointless discussing any way because Greece aren't going to have it as their currency.
full member
Activity: 121
Merit: 100
Adopting BTC as national currency would be suicide for Greece. Their problem is not that the Euro inflation is too high, but it is too low. Bitcoin is deflationary in the long term, so their debts would explode, when BTC price rises.

That would be contrary to the aforementioned Gresham's Law. I'd indulge you to read it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

The undervalued currency would (in this case) be the EUR. That means the debt in EUR will be lowered as the BTC would go up and finally eliminated when BTC reaches a high rate. Such an experiment is -of course- non applicable on a country under a sovereign coalition, so we can only assume here (both me and you) what we *think* it will happen.

You could also be right and me just typing nonsense here. Smiley

Thanks for the link, quite interesting lecture. My conclusion is that we talked about two different things: Gresham's Law is driven by the public, while the official legal tender is issued by more or less state-controlled institutions. It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

Yanis Varoufakis has an opinion regarding Bitcoin though. The following article is more than 2 years old and I am sure it has already been posted here. But maybe someone finds it interesting:

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/04/22/bitcoin-and-the-dangerous-fantasy-of-apolitical-money/
hero member
Activity: 1011
Merit: 721
Decentralize everything
At least trollchop is trying harder with the new accounts  Kiss

PS. DOOOOM?
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441

no one really thinks it is ...right?


EJECT THIS MAN FROM THIS PLACE

It's guaranteed that right now presidents, kings and prime ministers are lining up outside the trailers of spotty and hostile early miners attempting to persuade them to sell to them so they can save their national economies.

Get with the muthafuckin' plan.



......ah my bad.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?

What kind of monkey is your mum looking to adopt?

A jewish one?
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?

Actually, its very high chance for Greece to adopt bitcoin.
The government of Greece may be crooked, but they are not stupid! They can see how quickly and easily people became rich with bitcoin. They will surely want to become rich also, don't they?
Mark my words: Greece will adopt bitcoin in the coming years and will be the new kind of superpower, that gets it's power by it's immense riches.


You sir are a geniouz.... surely a moriarty level master.

You are also utterly utterly insane.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
Why does entire Greece needs to adopt Bitcoin? If Greece leaves the Eurozone and takes the Drachma as national currency, it's on the people to decide wich currency fits them. I'm sure that quite some people in Greece have heard of Bitcoin. If only a small percentage (let's say 20%, 2,2 million people) will put (a part of) their savings into Bitcoin, than we will surely be on a price of $1500/BTC . Best case cenario: those 20% of people will cause a chain reaction, more and more people will use it, and the Greece government have no other choise than take Bitcoin as a national currency.
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?

What kind of monkey is your mum looking to adopt?
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 3056
Welt Am Draht

no one really thinks it is ...right?


EJECT THIS MAN FROM THIS PLACE

It's guaranteed that right now presidents, kings and prime ministers are lining up outside the trailers of spotty and hostile early miners attempting to persuade them to sell to them so they can save their national economies.

Get with the muthafuckin' plan.
member
Activity: 154
Merit: 10
.
My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?

Actually, its very high chance for Greece to adopt bitcoin.
The government of Greece may be crooked, but they are not stupid! They can see how quickly and easily people became rich with bitcoin. They will surely want to become rich also, don't they?
Mark my words: Greece will adopt bitcoin in the coming years and will be the new kind of superpower, that gets it's power by it's immense riches.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1002
Strange, yet attractive.
Adopting BTC as national currency would be suicide for Greece. Their problem is not that the Euro inflation is too high, but it is too low. Bitcoin is deflationary in the long term, so their debts would explode, when BTC price rises.

That would be contrary to the aforementioned Gresham's Law. I'd indulge you to read it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

The undervalued currency would (in this case) be the EUR. That means the debt in EUR will be lowered as the BTC would go up and finally eliminated when BTC reaches a high rate. Such an experiment is -of course- non applicable on a country under a sovereign coalition, so we can only assume here (both me and you) what we *think* it will happen.

You could also be right and me just typing nonsense here. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
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