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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 22766. (Read 26714578 times)

sr. member
Activity: 361
Merit: 250
Price seems to be going down a bit now. But I don't think this is going to end in another flash crash. And even if we should go down as much as last night, it will only show the resilience Bitcoin has managed to gain over the past weeks!

to me it looks like a slow grind down.

We've been consolidating with higher highs since Feb 30. Hardly a grind down.

Interesting... it appears I am living in the past. That might be the reason I do see a grind down. I got another 5 days left to see what you see. Hope you are right...
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC
Price seems to be going down a bit now. But I don't think this is going to end in another flash crash. And even if we should go down as much as last night, it will only show the resilience Bitcoin has managed to gain over the past weeks!

to me it looks like a slow grind down.

We've been consolidating with higher highs since Feb Jan 30. Hardly a grind down.

FTFY
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Price seems to be going down a bit now. But I don't think this is going to end in another flash crash. And even if we should go down as much as last night, it will only show the resilience Bitcoin has managed to gain over the past weeks!

to me it looks like a slow grind down.

We've been consolidating with higher highs since Feb 30. Hardly a grind down.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
Thanks for the update Sitarow-

I'm not really sure what to think about the markets right now. We seem to just be holding steady and going sideways in a pattern on multiple fronts or slightly down in all of BTC/LTC/NMC/PPC. There just isn't much volume anywhere either.   LTC has been especially stagnant except for few attempts to move the market. (Random Cryptsy dumps filling the buy/order book). Nothing happened after those moves though; just strange. I'd expect a correlated rise or fall which would inversely transfer into another market, i.e. from ltc into btc or vice versa, but nothings happening in any arena. Is it relatively safe to say that everyone is just waiting on 'something' to happen? I.e., 30 days until implementation of NY Bitlicense and/or the Marshalls Auction? (Is the auction next week)? I was expecting to see some significant movement leading up to the auction but maybe it's still a bit premature? One way or another my popcorn is getting cold! I was expecting a show!

On another note, anywhere care to speculate on what the effects of the NY BTL will have on the markets and/or exchanges? Think they will try to assert jurisdiction over BTC-E? And has anyone noticed delays moving coins? (I made a withdrawal of ltc that took far too long to move for my comfort levels).

I expect weekend movement before the silent bids next week.

The Bitlicense 30 day comment period is over march.
www.coindesk.com/30-day-comment-period-bitlicense-begins/

As for BTC-E paul hinted at development of a Bitlicence BTC-E exchange.  The chat is on a few screen shots from btc-e trollbox that I had recently posted.

FEB 9TH 2015 1AM UTC
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
sr. member
Activity: 258
Merit: 250
Thanks for the update Sitarow-

I'm not really sure what to think about the markets right now. We seem to just be holding steady and going sideways in a pattern on multiple fronts or slightly down in all of BTC/LTC/NMC/PPC. There just isn't much volume anywhere either.   LTC has been especially stagnant except for few attempts to move the market. (Random Cryptsy dumps filling the buy/order book). Nothing happened after those moves though; just strange. I'd expect a correlated rise or fall which would inversely transfer into another market, i.e. from ltc into btc or vice versa, but nothings happening in any arena. Is it relatively safe to say that everyone is just waiting on 'something' to happen? I.e., 30 days until implementation of NY Bitlicense and/or the Marshalls Auction? (Is the auction next week)? I was expecting to see some significant movement leading up to the auction but maybe it's still a bit premature? One way or another my popcorn is getting cold! I was expecting a show!

On another note, anywhere care to speculate on what the effects of the NY BTL will have on the markets and/or exchanges? Think they will try to assert jurisdiction over BTC-E? And has anyone noticed delays moving coins? (I made a withdrawal of ltc that took far too long to move for my comfort levels).
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1002
Strange, yet attractive.
There was something between barter and gold. Currencies like salt, rare shells, rai stones, to name a few. Gold coins replaced those. While the other currencies were local, gold worked globally (well, almost, it didn't get to the Americas). See the parallel between contemporary local fiat currencies and the global bitcoins?

Why do you insist with gold?  I said already that I am not a "gold bug".  To me, the speculative overvaluation of gold is almost as bad as that of bitcoin. ("Almost" only because gold does have some intrinsic value, although it has little infuence in the gold's market price.)

Very few of this traded gold is "out in the open". In that perspective it's in essence the same with bitcoin. Only it's here longer. Tongue
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
There was something between barter and gold. Currencies like salt, rare shells, rai stones, to name a few. Gold coins replaced those. While the other currencies were local, gold worked globally (well, almost, it didn't get to the Americas). See the parallel between contemporary local fiat currencies and the global bitcoins?

Why do you insist with gold?  I said already that I am not a "gold bug".  To me, the speculative overvaluation of gold is almost as bad as that of bitcoin. ("Almost" only because gold does have some intrinsic value, although it has little infuence in the gold's market price.)
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1001
Energy is Wealth
Lets see how this translates 2,600 years ago...

Real wealth is houses, land, cars, food, services, etc.  Wealth gets created and destroyed, sometimes both in quick succession, as when a cook prepares a meal that gets eaten right away.  

Gold does not create any wealth. Its contribution to productivity, by (allegedly) being a more efficient payment instrument is tiny.  In fact, the contribution of gold to world's production of wealth, so far, has been humongously negative: 100 times (at least) more wealth has been destroyed by the gold system than has been created thanks to it.

Does not translate.  The replacement of barter by money transactions hugely improved the flow of goods and services, by breaking down complicated multi-party trasactions into independent two-party steps, that could be widely separated in time and space.

There was something between barter and gold. Currencies like salt, rare shells, rai stones, to name a few. Gold coins replaced those. While the other currencies were local, gold worked globally (well, almost, it didn't get to the Americas). See the parallel between contemporary local fiat currencies and the global bitcoins?
  

The losses caused by bitcoin include, first, all the wealth consumed by the "bitcoin phenomenon": the bitcoin mining equipment and electrical energy used by miners, all the time spent by bitcoiners looking at charts, trading bitcoins, and watching Antonopulos videos, all the time and equipment and electricity consumed by bitcoin companies, all the time spent by non-bitcoiners listening to bitcoiners and trying to understand the thing.  We should also add all the losses and hardships suffered by victims of bitcoin thefts, scams, and collapse of bitcoin companies.  Even if we discount from the latter the losses of wealthy people (which, a communist might argue, were just cases of thief stealing from thief), we can easily get to a billion dollars of damages.  

Hence the claim that, so far, bitcoin has brought 100x more losses than benefits to mankind.

How much losses are caused by gold mining? By moving cash around? By people devoting their lives to making money off the financial markets? Etc...

Quote
That is the same trick that governments and banks use when they create more money, indeed. But when the government does it, it is just another kind of tax: the government is supposed to use the wealth that it buys with that new money for the benefit of its citizens.  When banks do it, of course, there is no such return: there is net and permanent transfer of wealth from the general people to bank owners.

And that is the case too when private entities create new money, whether it is gift certificates or Linden Dollars -- or scarce metals.  *That* is why scarce metals are a scam, even if they were to succeed.

These statemetns of course make no sense when applied to gold. Banks and governments do not create more gold, and private entities do not create new scarce metals.  It obviously applies to fiat money, such as dollars and cryptocurrencies.

Gold mining companies mine gold. As such they bring more gold in circulation that wasn't in circulation before -- just like with bitcoin.

There are private entities that try to make other scarce metals (apart from gold and silver) sexy enough to act as a store of value.
Energy is Wealth (see my personal message)
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
sr. member
Activity: 361
Merit: 250
Price seems to be going down a bit now. But I don't think this is going to end in another flash crash. And even if we should go down as much as last night, it will only show the resilience Bitcoin has managed to gain over the past weeks!

to me it looks like a slow grind down.
hero member
Activity: 737
Merit: 500
Lets see how this translates 2,600 years ago...

Real wealth is houses, land, cars, food, services, etc.  Wealth gets created and destroyed, sometimes both in quick succession, as when a cook prepares a meal that gets eaten right away.  

Gold does not create any wealth. Its contribution to productivity, by (allegedly) being a more efficient payment instrument is tiny.  In fact, the contribution of gold to world's production of wealth, so far, has been humongously negative: 100 times (at least) more wealth has been destroyed by the gold system than has been created thanks to it.

Does not translate.  The replacement of barter by money transactions hugely improved the flow of goods and services, by breaking down complicated multi-party trasactions into independent two-party steps, that could be widely separated in time and space.

There was something between barter and gold. Currencies like salt, rare shells, rai stones, to name a few. Gold coins replaced those. While the other currencies were local, gold worked globally (well, almost, it didn't get to the Americas). See the parallel between contemporary local fiat currencies and the global bitcoins?
  

The losses caused by bitcoin include, first, all the wealth consumed by the "bitcoin phenomenon": the bitcoin mining equipment and electrical energy used by miners, all the time spent by bitcoiners looking at charts, trading bitcoins, and watching Antonopulos videos, all the time and equipment and electricity consumed by bitcoin companies, all the time spent by non-bitcoiners listening to bitcoiners and trying to understand the thing.  We should also add all the losses and hardships suffered by victims of bitcoin thefts, scams, and collapse of bitcoin companies.  Even if we discount from the latter the losses of wealthy people (which, a communist might argue, were just cases of thief stealing from thief), we can easily get to a billion dollars of damages.  

Hence the claim that, so far, bitcoin has brought 100x more losses than benefits to mankind.

How much losses are caused by gold mining? By moving cash around? By people devoting their lives to making money off the financial markets? Etc...

Quote
That is the same trick that governments and banks use when they create more money, indeed. But when the government does it, it is just another kind of tax: the government is supposed to use the wealth that it buys with that new money for the benefit of its citizens.  When banks do it, of course, there is no such return: there is net and permanent transfer of wealth from the general people to bank owners.

And that is the case too when private entities create new money, whether it is gift certificates or Linden Dollars -- or scarce metals.  *That* is why scarce metals are a scam, even if they were to succeed.

These statemetns of course make no sense when applied to gold. Banks and governments do not create more gold, and private entities do not create new scarce metals.  It obviously applies to fiat money, such as dollars and cryptocurrencies.

Gold mining companies mine gold. As such they bring more gold in circulation that wasn't in circulation before -- just like with bitcoin.

There are private entities that try to make other scarce metals (apart from gold and silver) sexy enough to act as a store of value.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
1) the bitcoin mining equipment = do the mining companies and their suppliers and their employees  burn the money they earn?

2) and electrical energy used by miners = do the energy companies burn the money they earn?

3) all the time spent by bitcoiners looking at charts, trading bitcoins = do websites and exchanges and traders burn the money they earn?

4)and watching Antonopulos videos = does you tube burn the money they earn from ad revenues (a tiny bit of which come from admittedly a very few btc videos in the grand scheme) or the people that make the videos? or the video cameras?

I insist: money is not wealth, just tokens that people are willing to accept in exchange of wealth.   All the things above destroy wealth, and move money from some people to other people.

Once again: some forms of money, like dollars, are so stable and widely accepted that people usually count them as wealth, when evaluating the wealth owned by a person or company.  That is a valid assumption for those purposes.  

But when one is discussing the wealth of the world (as in the above) or of a country, it is wrong to count the money owned by its inhabitants.  (Except, in the case of a country, the money that the country could use to acquire wealth that is outside the country, without giving other wealth in return.)

Money is not wealth, it is a symbol we use to represent wealth.

If what you are stating is that BTC uses resources that could be used for something else.. then.... yeah... but have you had a good look around the world recently?

(personal note: In the future I may start to keep some of my wealth in cow form, I like cheese, and milk.......and steak.... oh and food for the veggie garden......plus I think I would rather enjoy owning a cow or three, they are pleasant)

(bullish?)
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Why is BTC price so limp lately?  Not saying Bitcoin's dying, but it's like an abandoned casino lately.  Is this what you call singularity, or is this the tipping point?
Whatever it is, make it stop, I can't gamble like this.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
1) the bitcoin mining equipment = do the mining companies and their suppliers and their employees  burn the money they earn?

2) and electrical energy used by miners = do the energy companies burn the money they earn?

3) all the time spent by bitcoiners looking at charts, trading bitcoins = do websites and exchanges and traders burn the money they earn?

4)and watching Antonopulos videos = does you tube burn the money they earn from ad revenues (a tiny bit of which come from admittedly a very few btc videos in the grand scheme) or the people that make the videos? or the video cameras?

I insist: money is not wealth, just tokens that people are willing to accept in exchange of wealth.   All the things above destroy wealth, and move money from some people to other people.

Once again: some forms of money, like dollars, are so stable and widely accepted that people usually count them as wealth, when evaluating the wealth owned by a person or company.  That is a valid assumption for those purposes.  

But when one is discussing the wealth of the world (as in the above) or of a country, it is wrong to count the money owned by its inhabitants.  (Except, in the case of a country, the money that the country could use to acquire wealth that is outside the country, without giving other wealth in return.)
full member
Activity: 462
Merit: 107
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
Enough is enough! I have had it with these motherfucking bulltards on this motherfucking thread!
Well said ChartBuddy!
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
...
I bought some Beanies in any case but she doesn't know  Cool
...

Yeah, it's good to have diverse holdings like that, just to hedge against Bitcoin disrupting math & NOT going to the moon for some reason.
By balancing your portfolio you double your money twice as fast cheaper==>smart, like me.

It's dinner time son.  Please come out of the basement.
Is your son with this wacky bitcoiners again? He spends far to much time with them lately and totally neglects my best piece in recent times. You know it is really straining our love life.

He got these movies of boys like us wrestling with other Bitcoin doctors, and he teaches me all about books by Ayn Rand, who's a funny man who dresses like a lady, and how money is printed from thin air, and... and other smart mature stuff like that.
He said if you're plump and underage smart like me, you can come over too.
<3
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
FURring bitcoin up since 1762
Price seems to be going down a bit now. But I don't think this is going to end in another flash crash. And even if we should go down as much as last night, it will only show the resilience Bitcoin has managed to gain over the past weeks!
hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
It's Not Enough
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