Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 22993.

Fatman3001

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Quote from: DaRude on February 08, 2015, 05:16:04 AM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 08, 2015, 05:05:50 AM

Quote from: Globb0 on February 08, 2015, 04:49:42 AM

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Imagine if you have fairly grown up kids, but not grown up enough that you want to let them loose on the net with a credit card, but old enough that the amount of internet purchases they make far exceeds what you want to have to deal with. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you're a respectable mum or dad in a conservative neighborhood, but you just happen to love spending Sundays in your basement busting your whatever to german scheisse movies. Bitcoin.

Imagine that you found this marvelous doohickey that costs next to nothing on a site you don't trust. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you have a cousin somewhere in Africa or Asia who needs to get out of the country ASAP because shit's going down, or simply suddenly ran into some economic dire straits. Bitcoin.

Imagine.... use your imagination!

For crying out loud...

Now imagine that worldwide.
And after all that explain why it's market cap should be less than say western union alone?

I think the problem in valuation is the initial distribution (aka the inflation of 3600 new mined BTC daily). That's a lot of coins looking for a holder even on a slow day. So BTC will be a wild ride, but it's a necessary evil and only temporary can't wait for (76 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 20 minutes) http://bitcoinclock.com expecting it to have a huge effect on valuation once we'll start getting closer to that

Hopefully liquidity is such, by that time, that we won't even notce.

Fatman3001

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Quote from: DaRude on February 08, 2015, 05:02:26 AM

Quote from: elasticband on February 08, 2015, 04:45:48 AM

Quote from: DaRude on February 08, 2015, 04:40:53 AM

My favorite one is the argument against adaption as a lot of people accepting bitcoins will bring more sell pressure on the currency as people will use their BTC to actually buy stuff Shocked

those cute fuzzy trolls Kiss

Unless there is reason for normal none BTC holding joe blogs to go out and buy bitcoin to then buy his online product, then yes more BTC business accepting adoption just equates to more ways for BTC hodlers to cash out and a downward sell pressure. without creating a demand for really using BTC in the real world, we are just creating more sell pressure.

Compared to last year, i can dump bitcoins so many different places now.

i've still yet to met a person who has wanted something online, then used their bank account to buy BTC, then his btc to buy the product, when they could have just used his bank account and skipped a step. people want seamless easy transactions, BTC - BTC provides that, fiat - BTC - fiat does not.

All in due time. Blue chips giving their stamp of approval and deciding that bitcoin protocol is stable and safe enough for them to adopt is a major reinforcement. The more bitcoin gets accepted the more people start looking at it the more use cases it will find. Buying stuff you don't want traced back to you, gambling (where illegal), tipping, paying in different currency, unbanked, transferring wealth outside of currency controlled states, and vendors offering discounts are all good enough of incentives for me to go fiat -> btc ->transaction.

I'm just looking forward to when you can convert and withdraw Bitcoins directly from your net bank account. If bitcoins starts getting traction with the youtube generation, banks will be falling over themselves to offer such solutions.

DaRude

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Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 08, 2015, 05:05:50 AM

Quote from: Globb0 on February 08, 2015, 04:49:42 AM

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Imagine if you have fairly grown up kids, but not grown up enough that you want to let them loose on the net with a credit card, but old enough that the amount of internet purchases they make far exceeds what you want to have to deal with. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you're a respectable mum or dad in a conservative neighborhood, but you just happen to love spending Sundays in your basement busting your whatever to german scheisse movies. Bitcoin.

Imagine that you found this marvelous doohickey that costs next to nothing on a site you don't trust. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you have a cousin somewhere in Africa or Asia who needs to get out of the country ASAP because shit's going down, or simply suddenly ran into some economic dire straits. Bitcoin.

Imagine.... use your imagination!

For crying out loud...

Now imagine that worldwide.
And after all that explain why it's market cap should be less than say western union alone?

I think the problem in valuation is the initial distribution (aka the inflation of 3600 new mined BTC daily). That's a lot of coins looking for a holder even on a slow day. So BTC will be a wild ride, but it's a necessary evil and only temporary can't wait for (76 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 20 minutes) http://bitcoinclock.com expecting it to have a huge effect on valuation once we'll start getting closer to that

elasticband

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Quote from: DaRude on February 08, 2015, 05:02:26 AM

All in due time. Blue chips giving their stamp of approval and deciding that bitcoin protocol is stable and safe enough for them to adopt is a major reinforcement. The more bitcoin gets accepted the more people start looking at it the more use cases it will find. Buying stuff you don't want traced back to you, gambling (where illegal), tipping, paying in different currency, unbanked, transferring wealth outside of currency controlled states, and vendors offering discounts are all good enough of incentives for me to go fiat -> btc ->transaction.

i spend BTC all the time, but i don't buy BTC to spend it...... selling pressure.

I don't like tipping or the silly gambling sites, satoshidice just bloats the bloackchain with silly micro transactions based on greed.

the unbanked and worldwide transfer of value are the things that probably brought me into bitcoin. paying for day to day things with bitcoin works but probably is not where the real value of the protocol lays. Being able to distance your bank and your merchants with a decentralized transfer system has its advantages in this day and age, people are becoming more aware of the intrusive nature of some of these big companies and banks.

I Am a big bitcoin advocate, anyone who knows me IRL knows this, i don't get hyped by new merchant adoption though. I get hyped when bitcoin becomes more accessible and usable by the random joeblogs who does not even know what a bitcoin is.

fonsie

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Quote from: Globb0 on February 08, 2015, 04:49:42 AM

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Why would I pay 25EUR a year just to have a creditcard, when I can also use bitcoin, wich is free?

When buying from respected places that "protection" isn't needed, besides where is the merchant his protection with shady customers?

Fatman3001

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Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: Globb0 on February 08, 2015, 04:49:42 AM

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Imagine if you have fairly grown up kids, but not grown up enough that you want to let them loose on the net with a credit card, but old enough that the amount of internet purchases they make far exceeds what you want to have to deal with. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you're a respectable mum or dad in a conservative neighborhood, but you just happen to love spending Sundays in your basement busting your whatever to german scheisse movies. Bitcoin.

Imagine that you found this marvelous doohickey that costs next to nothing on a site you don't trust. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you have a cousin somewhere in Africa or Asia who needs to get out of the country ASAP because shit's going down, or simply suddenly ran into some economic dire straits. Bitcoin.

Imagine.... use your imagination!

For crying out loud...

DaRude

legendary

Activity: 2833

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In order to dump coins one must have coins

Quote from: elasticband on February 08, 2015, 04:45:48 AM

Quote from: DaRude on February 08, 2015, 04:40:53 AM

My favorite one is the argument against adaption as a lot of people accepting bitcoins will bring more sell pressure on the currency as people will use their BTC to actually buy stuff Shocked

those cute fuzzy trolls Kiss

Unless there is reason for normal none BTC holding joe blogs to go out and buy bitcoin to then buy his online product, then yes more BTC business accepting adoption just equates to more ways for BTC hodlers to cash out and a downward sell pressure. without creating a demand for really using BTC in the real world, we are just creating more sell pressure.

Compared to last year, i can dump bitcoins so many different places now.

i've still yet to met a person who has wanted something online, then used their bank account to buy BTC, then his btc to buy the product, when they could have just used his bank account and skipped a step. people want seamless easy transactions, BTC - BTC provides that, fiat - BTC - fiat does not.

All in due time. Blue chips giving their stamp of approval and deciding that bitcoin protocol is stable and safe enough for them to adopt is a major reinforcement. The more bitcoin gets accepted the more people start looking at it the more use cases it will find. Buying stuff you don't want traced back to you, gambling (where illegal), tipping, paying in different currency, unbanked, transferring wealth outside of currency controlled states, and vendors offering discounts are all good enough of incentives for me to go fiat -> btc ->transaction.

ChartBuddy

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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Coin

Explanation

elasticband

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Quote from: elasticband on February 08, 2015, 04:45:48 AM

i've still yet to met a person who has wanted something online, then used their bank account to buy BTC, then his btc to buy the product, when they could have just used his bank account and skipped a step. people want seamless easy transactions, BTC - BTC provides that, fiat - BTC - fiat does not.

Actually, the above is false. I have met people who bought bitcoin to buy drugs and tobacco, they probably would have just paid with their bank accounts if the option was available though

Fatman3001

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Activity: 1554

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Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: elasticband on February 08, 2015, 04:45:48 AM

Quote from: DaRude on February 08, 2015, 04:40:53 AM

My favorite one is the argument against adaption as a lot of people accepting bitcoins will bring more sell pressure on the currency as people will use their BTC to actually buy stuff Shocked

those cute fuzzy trolls Kiss

Unless there is reason for normal none BTC holding joe blogs to go out and buy bitcoin to then buy his online product, then yes more BTC business accepting adoption just equates to more ways for BTC hodlers to cash out and a downward sell pressure. without creating a demand for really using BTC in the real world, we are just creating more sell pressure.

Compared to last year, i can dump bitcoins so many different places now.

i've still yet to met a person who has wanted something online, then used their bank account to buy BTC, then his btc to buy the product, when they could have just used his bank account and skipped a step. people want seamless easy transactions, BTC - BTC provides that, fiat - BTC - fiat does not.

saying that i am very much so long on bitcoin

Globb0

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Activity: 2702

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Free spirit

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1014

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: DaRude on February 08, 2015, 04:40:53 AM

My favorite one is the argument against adaption as a lot of people accepting bitcoins will bring more sell pressure on the currency as people will use their BTC to actually buy stuff Shocked

those cute fuzzy trolls Kiss

When I see these numbnuts....

Dump3er

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Quote from: 600watt on February 08, 2015, 03:03:05 AM

The trolls still get the folks tangled up in useless discussions, spamming the forum, shitting through all the threads. why do you give so much attention, why quote them, why even wasting precious forum and/or life time on any of those fkn idiots?

What you are saying?! Without us trolls the only content of this forum would be rocket pictures, porn pictures and permabulls tickling their balls one to another while price keeps crashing.

We are the literate!

elasticband

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Quote from: DaRude on February 08, 2015, 04:40:53 AM

My favorite one is the argument against adaption as a lot of people accepting bitcoins will bring more sell pressure on the currency as people will use their BTC to actually buy stuff Shocked

those cute fuzzy trolls Kiss

Unless there is reason for normal none BTC holding joe blogs to go out and buy bitcoin to then buy his online product, then yes more BTC business accepting adoption just equates to more ways for BTC hodlers to cash out and a downward sell pressure. without creating a demand for really using BTC in the real world, we are just creating more sell pressure.

Compared to last year, i can dump bitcoins so many different places now.

i've still yet to met a person who has wanted something online, then used their bank account to buy BTC, then his btc to buy the product, when they could have just used his bank account and skipped a step. people want seamless easy transactions, BTC - BTC provides that, fiat - BTC - fiat does not.

saying that i am very much so long on bitcoin

DaRude

legendary

Activity: 2833

Merit: 1851

In order to dump coins one must have coins

My favorite one is the argument against adaption as a lot of people accepting bitcoins will bring more sell pressure on the currency as people will use their BTC to actually buy stuff Shocked

those cute fuzzy trolls Kiss

DaRude

legendary

Activity: 2833

Merit: 1851

In order to dump coins one must have coins

Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 08, 2015, 04:32:23 AM

Quote from: molecular on February 08, 2015, 02:56:43 AM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on February 07, 2015, 09:38:00 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on February 07, 2015, 09:33:45 PM

Quote from: Sitarow on February 07, 2015, 09:18:01 PM

To be honest you are assuming that they are not keeping a % of the payment in BTC with their payment processor.

Some merchants may do that (just as some merchants actuall accept bitcoin directly, without BitPay's intermediation). But I am pretty sure that Dell, Microsoft, Wikipedia, etc. do not. Handling bitcoins requires extra work from accoutants, which is not worth the amount of payment received. Losses from bitcoin price variations (as Overstock and Fortress suffered) would have to be reported in the quarterly reports, and would be hard to justify to stockholders.

Quote

Also what is important to note is that BTC like USD,CAD,YEN,CHY,GBP and any other currency is being accepted for payment Cheesy

SIgh. No, it is not the same thing. Dell USA does accept USD, because you can wire USD to their bank account directly. They do not accept CAD,YEN,CHY,GBP nor BTC, and you cannot send them any of those currencies directly; you must send them to some other company, that converts them to USD and sends the USD to Dell.

Jorge, can't you see that we are arguing about what 'accepting' means? Everybody agrees about the model, the underlying chain of events that takes place during and after a payment (if a company chooses to get paid fully in fiat). It's just that when a company allows you to pay for products in BTC, I call that "accepting BTC", whereas for you "accepting" apparently means whatever you are getting paid by the payment processor at the end of the process.

I didn't follow the discussion leading to this, so maybe I'm out of line, but strangely it seems I'm siding with Stolfi on this. If we're talking about what it means to accept BTC I think we have to ask why we want companies to do that. In the end we'd like to see a purely Bitcoin-based economy with the companies using the BTC they're being payed with for their products to cover their cost (machinery, marketing, salaries, consulting, raw materials, insurance, taxes,...). In case of a company 'accepting' BTC through bitpay and converting 100% to fiat, this is clearly not the case.

So no: Dell is not accepting bitcoin. They're using it as a marketing tool.

If you or others can't see the significance of Dell, Microsoft and Paypal saying not only that they are interested in Bitcoin but that they consider it a sufficiently mature and legitimate medium of exchange that they are willing to accept it through their payments processors; then.... it doesn't matter because others will. We CAN get every business on the planet to accept and legitimize Bitcoin in this way, but we CAN'T get most companies to be bagholders.

There is no conceivable reason why Dell or Microsoft should accept Bitcoin directly. Even when Bitcoin is established enough for companies to transfer large sums between each other and internally, it wouldn't necessarily be very prudent to do that with bitcoins from customers. That would still go through payments processors and the management of their own bitcoins would be handled separately. Accepting payments through BitPay or Coinbase is to accept Bitcoin. Get over it!

Feel like the same arguments keep popping up over and over. Bitcoin currency vs bitcoin protocol. They're using bitcoin protocol to transfer wealth. This is good. Good news for protocol will (eventually) result in good news for currency.

Fatman3001

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Quote from: molecular on February 08, 2015, 02:56:43 AM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on February 07, 2015, 09:38:00 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on February 07, 2015, 09:33:45 PM

Quote from: Sitarow on February 07, 2015, 09:18:01 PM

To be honest you are assuming that they are not keeping a % of the payment in BTC with their payment processor.

Some merchants may do that (just as some merchants actuall accept bitcoin directly, without BitPay's intermediation). But I am pretty sure that Dell, Microsoft, Wikipedia, etc. do not. Handling bitcoins requires extra work from accoutants, which is not worth the amount of payment received. Losses from bitcoin price variations (as Overstock and Fortress suffered) would have to be reported in the quarterly reports, and would be hard to justify to stockholders.

Quote

Also what is important to note is that BTC like USD,CAD,YEN,CHY,GBP and any other currency is being accepted for payment Cheesy

SIgh. No, it is not the same thing. Dell USA does accept USD, because you can wire USD to their bank account directly. They do not accept CAD,YEN,CHY,GBP nor BTC, and you cannot send them any of those currencies directly; you must send them to some other company, that converts them to USD and sends the USD to Dell.

Jorge, can't you see that we are arguing about what 'accepting' means? Everybody agrees about the model, the underlying chain of events that takes place during and after a payment (if a company chooses to get paid fully in fiat). It's just that when a company allows you to pay for products in BTC, I call that "accepting BTC", whereas for you "accepting" apparently means whatever you are getting paid by the payment processor at the end of the process.

I didn't follow the discussion leading to this, so maybe I'm out of line, but strangely it seems I'm siding with Stolfi on this. If we're talking about what it means to accept BTC I think we have to ask why we want companies to do that. In the end we'd like to see a purely Bitcoin-based economy with the companies using the BTC they're being payed with for their products to cover their cost (machinery, marketing, salaries, consulting, raw materials, insurance, taxes,...). In case of a company 'accepting' BTC through bitpay and converting 100% to fiat, this is clearly not the case.

So no: Dell is not accepting bitcoin. They're using it as a marketing tool.

If you or others can't see the significance of Dell, Microsoft and Paypal saying not only that they are interested in Bitcoin but that they consider it a sufficiently mature and legitimate medium of exchange that they are willing to accept it through their payments processors; then.... it doesn't matter because others will. We CAN get every business on the planet to accept and legitimize Bitcoin in this way, but we CAN'T get most companies to be bagholders.

There is no conceivable reason why Dell or Microsoft should accept Bitcoin directly. Even when Bitcoin is established enough for companies to transfer large sums between each other and internally, it wouldn't necessarily be very prudent to do that with bitcoins from customers. That would still go through payments processors and the management of their own bitcoins would be handled separately. Accepting payments through BitPay or Coinbase is to accept Bitcoin. Get over it!

DaRude

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Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on February 08, 2015, 04:01:44 AM

Quote from: bad trader on February 08, 2015, 04:00:07 AM

Quote from: bitgeek on February 08, 2015, 03:55:32 AM

Who said there always has to be a weekend pump or a weekend dump?

A lot of people. Grin

(At least for this weekend.)

People know nothing Roll Eyes

Are you implying that i SHOULDN'T trust random people on the internet Shocked

Quote from: WillyBTC on February 08, 2015, 04:17:04 AM

Little pop up here, but looked a bit more explosive at first than it does now....

Bid side is getting heavy on Finex. Bulls are used to just putting up the bids and someone dumping on them, when that stopped happening first bulls are starting to break rank. It's like watching the migration of wildebeest across river

WillyBTC

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Little pop up here, but looked a bit more explosive at first than it does now....

YourMother

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Quote from: hyphymikey on February 08, 2015, 03:07:56 AM

Come on bears, sell.... DUMP ONTO THE.

They are only useless coins that will soon be worth nothing, right? Might as well get rid of them while they are worth something, right?

DUMP ONTO THE

How to fake confidence - O'Reilly Course 101

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 22993. (Read 26708221 times)