Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 23920.

gkv9

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Quote from: Silverspoon on December 31, 2014, 08:50:27 AM

Whoa there. A ponzi is a pyramid scheme created by a malefactor.
A pyramid scheme is any scheme in which early adopters profit only if new money keeps coming in. I don't think you want to argue that Bitcoin's price can grow without influx of new money - bitcoin doesn't produce anything other than more bitcoins and heat.

I have already explained why a rational player would invest in a pyramid scheme (buy BTC at the auction), but I'll do it again:

1. Buy BTC below market at auction.
2. Sell on exchanges at market.
3. Profit.

Ok, I understood your point. But, who says that new monies won't come in and people won't profit anymore? BTC is still in development mode and has a lot to capture...

Davyd05

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Quote from: klee on December 31, 2014, 08:50:45 AM

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/winklevoss-bitcoin-trust-files-to-sell-201-million-shares-2014-12-31-7915121
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514457552/0001193125-14-457552-index.htm

Huh

5th amendment Cheesy

to the filing this time I guess the juicy part was them outlining the shares to be sold. I wish the process would have a better time it will take the SEC to approve/disapprove

superresistant

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Quote from: klee on December 31, 2014, 08:50:45 AM

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/winklevoss-bitcoin-trust-files-to-sell-201-million-shares-2014-12-31-7915121
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514457552/0001193125-14-457552-index.htm

Huh

profit

klee

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http://www.marketwatch.com/story/winklevoss-bitcoin-trust-files-to-sell-201-million-shares-2014-12-31-7915121
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514457552/0001193125-14-457552-index.htm

Huh

Silverspoon

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Activity: 112

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Quote from: gkv9 on December 31, 2014, 08:40:24 AM

Quote from: Silverspoon on December 31, 2014, 08:35:16 AM

I didn't say that bitcoin was a ponzi, just explained why a reasonable person would invest in one. Bitcoin is more of a pyramid scheme.
Not sure what people taking BTC for coffee has to do with this.

Obviously, it has to... Because it is a part too of the so-called pyramid scheme you talking about... Take Microsoft as example, they started taking BTC and yes, I do believe that for us the price of Bitcoins ain't what we wanted after bashing in all the stupid posts regarding the moons, but this is what these big guys wanted, a bit-stable environment to neither profit a lot, nor make a huge loss... Else, whilst the previous auction was held, nobody would have bought any of these...

Whoa there. A ponzi is a pyramid scheme created by a malefactor.
A pyramid scheme is any scheme in which early adopters profit only if new money keeps coming in. I don't think you want to argue that Bitcoin's price can grow without influx of new money - bitcoin doesn't produce anything other than more bitcoins and heat.

I have already explained why a rational player would invest in a pyramid scheme (buy BTC at the auction), but I'll do it again:

1. Buy BTC below market at auction.
2. Sell on exchanges at market.
3. Profit.

gkv9

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1000

!!! RiSe aBovE ThE StoRm !!!

Quote from: galdur on December 31, 2014, 08:33:36 AM

If Joe Sixpack suddenly had to estimate the width of Kim Kardashian´s ass

in centimeters rather than inches there would probably be a revolution in

the land. So I wouldn´t really count on them as authority.

I ain't counting on them as authorities, but they can just be called Contributors...

Quote from: Silverspoon on December 31, 2014, 08:35:16 AM

I didn't say that bitcoin was a ponzi, just explained why a reasonable person would invest in one. Bitcoin is more of a pyramid scheme.
Not sure what people taking BTC for coffee has to do with this.

Obviously, it has to... Because it is a part too of the so-called pyramid scheme you talking about... Take Microsoft as example, they started taking BTC and yes, I do believe that for us the price of Bitcoins ain't what we wanted after bashing in all the stupid posts regarding the moons, but this is what these big guys wanted, a bit-stable environment to neither profit a lot, nor make a huge loss... Else, whilst the previous auction was held, nobody would have bought any of these...

Silverspoon

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Quote from: gkv9 on December 31, 2014, 08:29:55 AM

Quote from: Silverspoon on December 31, 2014, 08:26:53 AM

Because profiting from a ponzi is guaranteed, as long as you manage to get out before the rubes catch on?

I believe BTC ain't a pnozi because if it was, I don't think people are too fool to be true to put in their monies in this so-called pnozi...

There are still some places where people accept BTC to buy a coffee, ain't there? Wink

I didn't say that bitcoin was a ponzi, just explained why a reasonable person would invest in one. Bitcoin is more of a pyramid scheme.
Not sure what people taking BTC for coffee has to do with this.

galdur

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Quote from: gkv9 on December 31, 2014, 08:29:55 AM

Quote from: Silverspoon on December 31, 2014, 08:26:53 AM

Because profiting from a ponzi is guaranteed, as long as you manage to get out before the rubes catch on?

I believe BTC ain't a pnozi because if it was, I don't think people are too fool to be true to put in their monies in this so-called pnozi...

There are still some places where people accept BTC to buy a coffee, ain't there? Wink

If Joe Sixpack suddenly had to estimate the width of Kim Kardashian´s ass

in centimeters rather than inches there would probably be a revolution in

the land. So I wouldn´t really count on them as authority.

gkv9

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1000

!!! RiSe aBovE ThE StoRm !!!

Quote from: Silverspoon on December 31, 2014, 08:26:53 AM

Because profiting from a ponzi is guaranteed, as long as you manage to get out before the rubes catch on?

I believe BTC ain't a pnozi because if it was, I don't think people are too fool to be true to put in their monies in this so-called pnozi...

There are still some places where people accept BTC to buy a coffee, ain't there? Wink

Silverspoon

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Quote from: gkv9 on December 31, 2014, 08:24:05 AM

Quote from: galdur on December 31, 2014, 08:20:57 AM

In other words, it´s some sort of a scam. A ponzi scheme if you will.

Wow, if it's a ponzi, why are you in? Tongue

Lolz, seriously man...

Because profiting from a ponzi is guaranteed, as long as you manage to get out before the rubes catch on?

macsga

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Activity: 1484

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Strange, yet attractive.

Quote from: galdur on December 31, 2014, 08:22:54 AM

But have fun chasing it down. Don´t let me bother you.

You know how people are; chasing dreams all the time. Don't ruin it for us all fools here. You outsmart us all anyway. Thank you for your contribution anyway. Kiss

gkv9

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Activity: 1246

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!!! RiSe aBovE ThE StoRm !!!

Quote from: galdur on December 31, 2014, 08:20:57 AM

In other words, it´s some sort of a scam. A ponzi scheme if you will.

Wow, if it's a ponzi, why are you in? Tongue

Lolz, seriously man... Ok, I get your point somewhere, but even if it's a ponzi, I feel proud to say that I am a part of it... Wink

It's been 5 years since this ^PNOZI's^ running... Grin

It's gonna enter 6th now... You better decide whether you are in or not... Cheesy

Happy New Year Dude...

EDIT:

Quote from: galdur on December 31, 2014, 08:18:41 AM

If you constantly throw increasing production capacity at a product

that keeps falling in price you have to hedge by selling the product

short. Otherwise how can the scheme keep going ?

+1 to the above mentioned explanation...

galdur

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But have fun chasing it down. Don´t let me bother you.

macsga

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1002

Strange, yet attractive.

Quote from: galdur on December 31, 2014, 08:20:57 AM

In other words, it´s some sort of a scam. A ponzi scheme if you will.

Ah, now it makes sense. Grin

galdur

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Activity: 616

Merit: 500

In other words, it´s some sort of a scam. A ponzi scheme if you will.

galdur

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

Quote from: gkv9 on December 31, 2014, 08:15:26 AM

Quote from: galdur on December 31, 2014, 08:13:31 AM

The only way this business model makes sense for producers

is that they´re constantly short their own product. Obviously.

Are the producers only the hodlers of it? Who are we then, puppets?

If you constantly throw increasing production capacity at a product

that keeps falling in price you have to hedge by selling the product

short. Otherwise how can the scheme keep going ?

gkv9

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1000

!!! RiSe aBovE ThE StoRm !!!

Quote from: galdur on December 31, 2014, 08:13:31 AM

The only way this business model makes sense for producers

is that they´re constantly short their own product. Obviously.

Are the producers only the hodlers of it? Who are we then, puppets?

macsga

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1002

Strange, yet attractive.

Quote from: gkv9 on December 31, 2014, 08:10:30 AM

Quote from: galdur on December 31, 2014, 08:07:52 AM

This is called inverse correlation

And what about the factors that I represented? Supply and Demand? Maybe your analysis is true, but everything here is speculated and works on trust and buy/sell of these coins, if I'm not wrong on my side... Wink

EDIT: Did you mean that the sudden decline from last year is due to the increase in the usage of highly parameter-ed mining equipments that people are using today? I believe that during those days too, people were mining and hashrates were high then too...

Also by inverse correlation you mean the price will go to zero? Or will there be an equilibrium? Excuse my ignorance, I'm too fool to understand your theory here...

galdur

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Quote from: gkv9 on December 31, 2014, 08:10:30 AM

Quote from: galdur on December 31, 2014, 08:07:52 AM

This is called inverse correlation

And what about the factors that I represented? Supply and Demand? Maybe your analysis is true, but everything here is speculated and works on trust and buy/sell of these coins, if I'm not wrong on my side... Wink

The only way this business model makes sense for producers

is that they´re constantly short their own product. Obviously.

gkv9

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1000

!!! RiSe aBovE ThE StoRm !!!

Quote from: galdur on December 31, 2014, 08:07:52 AM

This is called inverse correlation

And what about the factors that I represented? Supply and Demand? Maybe your analysis is true, but everything here is speculated and works on trust and buy/sell of these coins, if I'm not wrong on my side... Wink

EDIT: Did you mean that the sudden decline from last year is due to the increase in the usage of highly parameter-ed mining equipments that people are using today? I believe that during those days too, people were mining and hashrates were high then too...

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