Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 24269.

JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: MrPiggles on November 26, 2014, 02:58:55 AM

they never hacked into his computers, and whether or not they can follow them on the blockchain is irrelevant.

Perhaps I am mis-remembering about the hacking. But, from day 0, the police can buy stuff on the site, pay in bitcoins, and follow them on the blockchain. That tracing could reveal if there were other wallets beyond those that that they seized (~30'000 on the server and ~150'000 on his laptop).

ChartBuddy

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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation

soullyG

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Decentralize everything

Houbi and OKCoin pumping

macsga

legendary

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Strange, yet attractive.

Quote from: Tzupy on November 26, 2014, 05:38:27 AM

Quote from: shmadz on November 26, 2014, 12:54:46 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 26, 2014, 12:16:34 AM

"Kraken selected to aid MtGOX Investigation and Liquidation"
http://blog.kraken.com/post/103599171158/mt-gox-bankruptcy

Smells like a big pile of steaming bullshit to me

No bullshit, the CEO of Kraken is the CEO of Payward, which was selected to assist Kobayashi, quoting:

Upon obtaining approval from the Tokyo District Court, as of November 26, 2014,
I decided on Payward Japan K.K., which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Payward.
Inc. (“Payward”), as the supporting company and entered into the “Agreement
Concerning Support, etc. of Bankruptcy Proceedings”, because the Payward group
was considered to be the most suitable among the candidates.
In addition, as stated above, the agreement stipulates that the Payward group will
support the bankruptcy proceedings of the bankrupt entity. Payward will not
assume the business of the bankrupt entity.

Payward (CEO and Co-founder: Jesse Powell) is a corporation established on July
28, 2011 in the state of Delaware. It has outlets in the United States, Canada, the
United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Singapore and Japan, and operates the bitcoin
exchange, Kraken, with users from around the world as its clients.

IMHO, we can't HEALTHY move upwards if the MtGox issue is not properly (or improperly) resolved. There are many reasons to justify what I'm stating but it's not our subject right now. The good thing is that Kraken will be the middle company. I trust these guys more than any other BTC Exchange out there. In any case this won't be something that we should keep our breath on, since it's been routed for later (mid-April) from what it's stated on the announcement.

https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20141126_announcement.pdf
https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20141126_document.pdf

After that CCMF it is...

ChartBuddy

legendary

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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation

Tzupy

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Activity: 2170

Merit: 1094

Quote from: shmadz on November 26, 2014, 12:54:46 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 26, 2014, 12:16:34 AM

"Kraken selected to aid MtGOX Investigation and Liquidation"
http://blog.kraken.com/post/103599171158/mt-gox-bankruptcy

Smells like a big pile of steaming bullshit to me

No bullshit, the CEO of Kraken is the CEO of Payward, which was selected to assist Kobayashi, quoting:

Upon obtaining approval from the Tokyo District Court, as of November 26, 2014,
I decided on Payward Japan K.K., which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Payward.
Inc. (“Payward”), as the supporting company and entered into the “Agreement
Concerning Support, etc. of Bankruptcy Proceedings”, because the Payward group
was considered to be the most suitable among the candidates.
In addition, as stated above, the agreement stipulates that the Payward group will
support the bankruptcy proceedings of the bankrupt entity. Payward will not
assume the business of the bankrupt entity.

Payward (CEO and Co-founder: Jesse Powell) is a corporation established on July
28, 2011 in the state of Delaware. It has outlets in the United States, Canada, the
United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Singapore and Japan, and operates the bitcoin
exchange, Kraken, with users from around the world as its clients.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: MrPiggles on November 26, 2014, 04:58:01 AM

Quote from: octaft on November 26, 2014, 04:52:22 AM

Quote from: Totscha on November 26, 2014, 04:36:01 AM

Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...

How do you know they buy at a premium? Have there been any major auctions where the price was made public?

Nope, and never quite figured out why people think this.

The losing bids that were made public after the first USMS were up to 10% below the market price. No reason to think the winning bid wasn't 9% or 5% under, or even just market price.

Because ~~private~~ auctions don't work like that.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: lay785 on November 26, 2014, 04:58:12 AM

Quote from: octaft on November 26, 2014, 04:52:22 AM

Quote from: Totscha on November 26, 2014, 04:36:01 AM

Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...

How do you know they buy at a premium? Have there been any major auctions where the price was made public?

bulls are praying that tim draper buys them all again.

He bought less than two weeks worth. That's hardly all.

ChartBuddy

legendary

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Explanation

lay785

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: octaft on November 26, 2014, 04:52:22 AM

Quote from: Totscha on November 26, 2014, 04:36:01 AM

Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...

How do you know they buy at a premium? Have there been any major auctions where the price was made public?

bulls are praying that tim draper buys them all again.

MrPiggles

sr. member

Activity: 980

Merit: 256

Decentralized Ascending Auctions on Blockchain

Quote from: octaft on November 26, 2014, 04:52:22 AM

Quote from: Totscha on November 26, 2014, 04:36:01 AM

Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...

How do you know they buy at a premium? Have there been any major auctions where the price was made public?

Nope, and never quite figured out why people think this.

The losing bids that were made public after the first USMS were up to 10% below the market price. No reason to think the winning bid wasn't 9% or 5% under, or even just market price.

octaft

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Totscha on November 26, 2014, 04:36:01 AM

Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...

How do you know they buy at a premium? Have there been any major auctions where the price was made public?

Totscha

hero member

Activity: 1276

Merit: 622

Quote from: klee on November 26, 2014, 04:42:24 AM

Quote from: Totscha on November 26, 2014, 04:36:01 AM

Quote from: klee on November 26, 2014, 04:16:45 AM

Quote from: dropt on November 26, 2014, 04:03:14 AM

Quote from: klee on November 26, 2014, 03:50:41 AM

More supply again (MtGox 200K BTC + 2nd SR auction):

Down

It always amazes me that there are panic dumps whenever an article mentions a chunk of coins being manhandled in some way. Oh no, 50,000BTC are going to be privately auctioned in a month, I better dump! Hell, with the Mt. Gox coins we don't even know if they'll be sold off or returned, and when. It certainly isn't going to be tomorrow or the next day.

It's almost as if people forget that there are millions of BTC out there where even a marginal percentage could just show up on an exchange at any given time.

Market is more wise than any individual, it is the perfect voting system.

Whether you wanna admit it or not is your problem.

The fact is that we have confirmed increase in supply:

50k this month + 94k from SR auction.
200k from MtGox
8k from Australian police

Show me evidence for increased demand (the reason I said 'Down' is because I still see buying pressure only from the usual suspects: speculators and funds, masses are not interested at all).

Yes, but you did make one assumption. That those Bitcoins will be dumped on the market very fast. I'm sceptical about that.

1. Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...
2. Imagine you were a MtGox customer and got 20% of your BTC back. Would you sell most of them immediately? Some people will, but i guess more of them will hold for a higher price to recoup their loss...

These coins were out of circulation so basically they were not offering in supply at all.

Now they are back, we can only speculate on the amount that will be sold but markets usually tend to speculate close to the worst case scenario (if not more).

True.

I would find it more likely that fear of the dump will cause a bigger dip than the dump itself... And it's probably already happening.

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Totscha on November 26, 2014, 04:36:01 AM

Quote from: klee on November 26, 2014, 04:16:45 AM

Quote from: dropt on November 26, 2014, 04:03:14 AM

Quote from: klee on November 26, 2014, 03:50:41 AM

More supply again (MtGox 200K BTC + 2nd SR auction):

Down

It always amazes me that there are panic dumps whenever an article mentions a chunk of coins being manhandled in some way. Oh no, 50,000BTC are going to be privately auctioned in a month, I better dump! Hell, with the Mt. Gox coins we don't even know if they'll be sold off or returned, and when. It certainly isn't going to be tomorrow or the next day.

It's almost as if people forget that there are millions of BTC out there where even a marginal percentage could just show up on an exchange at any given time.

Market is more wise than any individual, it is the perfect voting system.

Whether you wanna admit it or not is your problem.

The fact is that we have confirmed increase in supply:

50k this month + 94k from SR auction.
200k from MtGox
8k from Australian police

Show me evidence for increased demand (the reason I said 'Down' is because I still see buying pressure only from the usual suspects: speculators and funds, masses are not interested at all).

Yes, but you did make one assumption. That those Bitcoins will be dumped on the market very fast. I'm sceptical about that.

1. Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...
2. Imagine you were a MtGox customer and got 20% of your BTC back. Would you sell most of them immediately? Some people will, but i guess more of them will hold for a higher price to recoup their loss...

These coins were out of circulation so basically they were not offering in supply at all.

Now they are back, we can only speculate on the amount that will be sold but markets usually tend to speculate close to the worst case scenario (if not more).

EDIT: What I am trying to say is that markets are psychological amplifiers - overreacting to news regarding supply & demand.

JimboToronto

legendary

Activity: 4242

Merit: 5039

You're never too old to think young.

Quote from: fonsie on November 26, 2014, 04:18:58 AM

This thread is getting annoying Grin

An idiot that loves pink unicorns and chinese propaganda pictures + a kid that's fully invested in silver, but keeps crying about some idiot trader that dumps some btc, you would think, it would make him happy instead.

You forgot the all the page 10000 fetishists. Cheesy

Totscha

hero member

Activity: 1276

Merit: 622

Quote from: klee on November 26, 2014, 04:16:45 AM

Quote from: dropt on November 26, 2014, 04:03:14 AM

Quote from: klee on November 26, 2014, 03:50:41 AM

More supply again (MtGox 200K BTC + 2nd SR auction):

Down

It always amazes me that there are panic dumps whenever an article mentions a chunk of coins being manhandled in some way. Oh no, 50,000BTC are going to be privately auctioned in a month, I better dump! Hell, with the Mt. Gox coins we don't even know if they'll be sold off or returned, and when. It certainly isn't going to be tomorrow or the next day.

It's almost as if people forget that there are millions of BTC out there where even a marginal percentage could just show up on an exchange at any given time.

Market is more wise than any individual, it is the perfect voting system.

Whether you wanna admit it or not is your problem.

The fact is that we have confirmed increase in supply:

50k this month + 94k from SR auction.
200k from MtGox
8k from Australian police

Show me evidence for increased demand (the reason I said 'Down' is because I still see buying pressure only from the usual suspects: speculators and funds, masses are not interested at all).

Yes, but you did make one assumption. That those Bitcoins will be dumped on the market very fast. I'm sceptical about that.

1. Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...
2. Imagine you were a MtGox customer and got 20% of your BTC back. Would you sell most of them immediately? Some people will, but i guess more of them will hold for a higher price to recoup their loss...

fonsie

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

This thread is getting annoying Grin

An idiot that loves pink unicorns and chinese propaganda pictures + a kid that's fully invested in silver, but keeps crying about some idiot trader that dumps some btc, you would think, it would make him happy instead.

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: dropt on November 26, 2014, 04:03:14 AM

Quote from: klee on November 26, 2014, 03:50:41 AM

More supply again (MtGox 200K BTC + 2nd SR auction):

Down

It always amazes me that there are panic dumps whenever an article mentions a chunk of coins being manhandled in some way. Oh no, 50,000BTC are going to be privately auctioned in a month, I better dump! Hell, with the Mt. Gox coins we don't even know if they'll be sold off or returned, and when. It certainly isn't going to be tomorrow or the next day.

It's almost as if people forget that there are millions of BTC out there where even a marginal percentage could just show up on an exchange at any given time.

Market is more wise than any individual, it is the perfect voting system.

Whether you wanna admit it or not is your problem.

The fact is that we have confirmed increase in supply:

50k this month + 94k from SR auction.
200k from MtGox
8k from Australian police

Show me evidence for increased demand (the reason I said 'Down' is because I still see buying pressure only from the usual suspects: speculators and funds, masses are not interested at all).

JimboToronto

legendary

Activity: 4242

Merit: 5039

You're never too old to think young.

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on November 25, 2014, 09:37:19 PM

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 25, 2014, 09:35:14 PM

Quote from: MrPiggles on November 25, 2014, 09:28:26 PM

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 25, 2014, 09:23:34 PM

Quote from: MrPiggles on November 25, 2014, 09:18:37 PM

...

Awesome. Hope you enjoy it. <==no sarcasm.

how would I "enjoy" a beanie baby? I'm not a furry

ya fuckin weirdo

Wait, so you bought it as an investment? Sorta like Bitcoin, huh?

I don't think you will win any converts with the Beanie Baby thing, bro. FWIW

Maybe she doesn't want converts...

Just a nice Brony Baby.

hdbuck

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Totscha on November 26, 2014, 03:48:43 AM

Quote from: hdbuck on November 26, 2014, 03:12:49 AM

Quote from: Totscha on November 26, 2014, 03:00:58 AM

Quote from: bengtåke on November 26, 2014, 01:35:44 AM

Quote from: cheekychap on November 26, 2014, 01:33:07 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 26, 2014, 01:24:11 AM

Quote from: shmadz on November 26, 2014, 12:54:46 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 26, 2014, 12:16:34 AM

"Kraken selected to aid MtGOX Investigation and Liquidation"
http://blog.kraken.com/post/103599171158/mt-gox-bankruptcy

Smells like a big pile of steaming bullshit to me

Could be. There was an earlier announcement which said that Kraken would take over MtGOX and pay customers in bitcoin. This one is more limited and cautious, but it is still not clear what is certain and what is merely a wish of Kraken and/or the clients, that the trustee may concede or not. In particular, the statement that clients will be required to open an account at Kraken in order to receive the refunds seems to be just a wish...

Does that mean, pay customers even the stolen amount? or just new amounts?

I'd assume it is to pay whatever coins are still under the control of mtgox, anything else would be crazy. I'm baffled why'd they even want to get involved in the mtgox bankruptcy though... Seems like way more trouble than it is worth.

Personally I think it's great that there will be an actual investigation.

When Powell said: "We’ve decided to volunteer our resources and expertise in an attempt to minimize damage to creditors, restore faith in the Bitcoin community, and demonstrate trusted leadership in the industry,", that explains it all.

We all know getting new customers is something Kraken needs. And that's what they hope to get from this move.

But, hey. At least they're doing something useful for it Wink

lmao. seriously? how you know that?

How do I know what?

I'm not sure about the whole investigation thing. Depends on what info will be made available to them. So no guarantees they will uncover anything.

But the redistribution of the Bitcoins and fiat left on Gox will go through. Why not? I find that useful.

gox coins redistribution? not gonna happen. hence cant be useful.

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 24269. (Read 26644487 times)