Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 24412.

mymenace

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Quote from: Richy_T on November 21, 2014, 11:53:09 PM

Quote from: var53 on November 21, 2014, 03:22:46 PM

Quote from: janos666 on November 21, 2014, 03:07:14 PM

Are there fully working Bitcoin wallets for Android, iOS and Windows Phone (true trustless wallet with sending capabilities)?

Maybe this is what you want.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet

I don't think it would be realistic to run the full blockchain on a phone so the kind of wallet he is thinking of would have to talk back to a version of the bitcoin client running on a computer you control. I suspect this one, like Mycelium, talks to a server hosting the blockchain.

(Though with Mycelium, at least, the transaction signing does occur on the phone so it should be safe for certain values of safe)

https://www.circle.com

http://www.coindesk.com/circle-launches-mobile-apps-ios-android/

US only at the moment and the best thing is your btc is insured

Richy_T

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 21, 2014, 10:46:21 PM

The best you can do is invest in things that actually produce valuable goods or services, such as stocks of solid companies, or real estate that you can rent.

Not even that. The presses have been running and these things are in a bubble (in the case of real estate, still in a bubble since the last one was not allowed to deflate as was needed). There is really no great place to put money right now. Possibly food & ammunition.

ChartBuddy

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Richy_T

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Quote from: var53 on November 21, 2014, 03:22:46 PM

Quote from: janos666 on November 21, 2014, 03:07:14 PM

Are there fully working Bitcoin wallets for Android, iOS and Windows Phone (true trustless wallet with sending capabilities)?

Maybe this is what you want.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet

I don't think it would be realistic to run the full blockchain on a phone so the kind of wallet he is thinking of would have to talk back to a version of the bitcoin client running on a computer you control. I suspect this one, like Mycelium, talks to a server hosting the blockchain.

(Though with Mycelium, at least, the transaction signing does occur on the phone so it should be safe for certain values of safe)

empowering

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 21, 2014, 10:46:21 PM

Quote from: Adrian-x on November 21, 2014, 10:07:30 PM

how does one save if one is always forced to speculate on the market, or are 10% profits guaranteed every year?

There is no recipe for immortality, no monument that will neer become a ruin, no cellphone battery that will last forever. No store of value is totally risk- and loss-free, including bitcoin. Life just sucks.

Bitcoin wasn't even designed to be such a thing: "non-inflationary", in the technical sense of having a fixed money supply, does not guarantee preservation of value.

The best you can do is invest in things that actually produce valuable goods or services, such as stocks of solid companies, or real estate that you can rent. Then you do not need to speculate; even if you hold the thing for decades, you may get the ful value of your investment back, and some more. But of course you may have bad luck and stock on some Enron or WorldCom. That risk is increased if you are too greedy, and look for higher returns rather than solidity. You must keep watch, and be ready to switch if it seems that the company is faltering. You can also invest indirectly in investment funds, and trade some of the returns for the convenience and risk reduction.

or you can have a crazed monkey fling darts at a dartboard and pick your stocks and investments that way..... just sayin

noobtrader

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 21, 2014, 10:46:21 PM

Quote from: Adrian-x on November 21, 2014, 10:07:30 PM

how does one save if one is always forced to speculate on the market, or are 10% profits guaranteed every year?

There is no recipe for immortality, no monument that will neer become a ruin, no cellphone battery that will last forever. No store of value is totally risk- and loss-free, including bitcoin. Life just sucks.

Bitcoin wasn't even designed to be such a thing: "non-inflationary", in the technical sense of having a fixed money supply, does not guarantee preservation of value.

The best you can do is invest in things that actually produce valuable goods or services, such as stocks of solid companies, or real estate that you can rent. Then you do not need to speculate; even if you hold the thing for decades, you may get the ful value of your investment back, and some more. But of course you may have bad luck and stock on some Enron or WorldCom. That risk is increased if you are too greedy, and look for higher returns rather than solidity. You must keep watch, and be ready to switch if it seems that the company is faltering. You can also invest indirectly in investment funds, and trade some of the returns for the convenience and risk reduction.

or......

you can buy bitcoin and put it on swap @ bitfinex and receive yield just like stock and it will be ultra risky and ultra reward type of investment...

BTW :
next event, FBI sales of bitcorn and black friday... bearish to 300 Huh

ChartBuddy

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JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: Adrian-x on November 21, 2014, 10:07:30 PM

how does one save if one is always forced to speculate on the market, or are 10% profits guaranteed every year?

There is no recipe for immortality, no monument that will neer become a ruin, no cellphone battery that will last forever. No store of value is totally risk- and loss-free, including bitcoin. Life just sucks.

Bitcoin wasn't even designed to be such a thing: "non-inflationary", in the technical sense of having a fixed money supply, does not guarantee preservation of value.

The best you can do is invest in things that actually produce valuable goods or services, such as stocks of solid companies, or real estate that you can rent. Then you do not need to speculate; even if you hold the thing for decades, you may get the ful value of your investment back, and some more. But of course you may have bad luck and stock on some Enron or WorldCom. That risk is increased if you are too greedy, and look for higher returns rather than solidity. You must keep watch, and be ready to switch if it seems that the company is faltering. You can also invest indirectly in investment funds, and trade some of the returns for the convenience and risk reduction.

NewLiberty

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 21, 2014, 09:29:06 PM

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on November 21, 2014, 09:01:33 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on November 21, 2014, 08:58:19 PM

An article published several years ago told how Brock Pierce built a billion-dollar company that cornered the market of virtual money and other virtual goods from some computer game (IIRC, World of Warchraft). He got partners in China who set up "mines" of those virtual goods. They had umpteen Chinese workers playing the game all day long, stopping only to eat and sleep on the premises. His company collapsed when regular players of the game sued it, claiming that their gaming experience was ruined because those Chinese miners were everywhere in the game, and cared only about collecting stuff.

I just remembered that from the news. This was before Bitcoin wasn't it?

Edit: http://boingboing.net/2007/11/15/goldfarming-empire-l.html

Yes, but I was thinking of this two-part Wired article:
The Decline and Fall of an Ultra Rich Online Gaming Empire
http://archive.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/magazine/16-12/ff_ige?currentPage=all

A Drive Through Laurel Canyon With Brock Pierce
http://archive.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/magazine/16-12/ff_ige_pierce

Protest lack of democracy in China, get sent to jail and be forced to play World of Warcraft,
If you don't make your quota of Warcraft gold, you get beat up with a plastic pipe.
True story:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/25/china-prisoners-internet-gaming-scam

mymenace

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Quote from: NotLambchop on November 21, 2014, 10:13:06 PM

Quote from: Adrian-x on November 21, 2014, 10:07:30 PM

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 21, 2014, 09:35:04 PM

Fiat is *designed* to lose value over time. That's what discourages hoarding and encourages investing. Who but in idiot would invest in a business that earns 10% a year, when one could get more by simply keeping his money in a mattress? (The Bitcoiner's Dream) Fiat is not intended to be a good store of value.

Regardless of Bitcoin's claim to be a good store of value, over the last year Bitcoin has really been losing it--even when measured in USD! And since we both agree that fiat is utter shit store of value, how shit does that make Bitcoin?

how does one save if one is always forced to speculate on the market, or are 10% profits guaranteed every year? oh yes I forgot they are, and the poor suckers at the bottom who earn those inflating dollars last pay the highest price, gosh I love systems that propagate poverty.

What makes you think you're entitled to hoard while others starve?
The "poor suckers" live from paycheck to paycheck (if that), there's no excess to "save."
It's the sorta-rich fuckers who bitch about inflation and taxes.

But guess what, rich wannabe? The real rich are smarter and shrewder than you, I'm afraid you'll have to resign yourself to a life of mediocrity Undecided

what is forex trading?

bitcoin shit store of value

that means the initial investment 4 years ago is crap

is 4 years a good short term investment?

NotLambchop

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Quote from: Adrian-x on November 21, 2014, 10:07:30 PM

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 21, 2014, 09:35:04 PM

Fiat is *designed* to lose value over time. That's what discourages hoarding and encourages investing. Who but in idiot would invest in a business that earns 10% a year, when one could get more by simply keeping his money in a mattress? (The Bitcoiner's Dream) Fiat is not intended to be a good store of value.

Regardless of Bitcoin's claim to be a good store of value, over the last year Bitcoin has really been losing it--even when measured in USD! And since we both agree that fiat is utter shit store of value, how shit does that make Bitcoin?

how does one save if one is always forced to speculate on the market, or are 10% profits guaranteed every year? oh yes I forgot they are, and the poor suckers at the bottom who earn those inflating dollars last pay the highest price, gosh I love systems that propagate poverty.

What makes you think you're entitled to hoard while others starve?
The "poor suckers" live from paycheck to paycheck (if that), there's no excess to "save."
It's the sorta-rich fuckers who bitch about inflation and taxes.

But guess what, rich wannabe? The real rich are smarter and shrewder than you, I'm afraid you'll have to resign yourself to a life of mediocrity Undecided

Adrian-x

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Quote from: NotLambchop on November 21, 2014, 09:35:04 PM

Fiat is *designed* to lose value over time. That's what discourages hoarding and encourages investing. Who but in idiot would invest in a business that earns 10% a year, when one could get more by simply keeping his money in a mattress? (The Bitcoiner's Dream) Fiat is not intended to be a good store of value.

Regardless of Bitcoin's claim to be a good store of value, over the last year Bitcoin has really been losing it--even when measured in USD! And since we both agree that fiat is utter shit store of value, how shit does that make Bitcoin?

how does one save if one is always forced to speculate on the market, or are 10% profits guaranteed every year? oh yes I forgot they are, and the poor suckers at the bottom who earn those inflating dollars last pay the highest price, gosh I love systems that propagate poverty.

shmadz

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Bitcoin is simply a mechanism to allow transparency.

ChartBuddy

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NotLambchop

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Quote from: shmadz on November 21, 2014, 09:51:30 PM

...
And bitcoin is designed to gain or retain value over time.
...

My point exactly. Designed to maintain value over time, loses it like a boss.

shmadz

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@theshmadz

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 21, 2014, 09:35:04 PM

Quote from: shmadz on November 21, 2014, 09:25:18 PM

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 21, 2014, 03:05:08 PM

Quote from: fonsie on November 21, 2014, 03:00:57 PM

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 21, 2014, 02:53:57 PM

...
Yeah, fonsie, if it once was a good store of value, it's a good store of value now. Because things never change and always stay the same Roll Eyes

Are you really that stupid? Because it is at this very moment more in dollar value than it was in 2009, it is indeed a good store of value NOW, it however doesn't guarantee it will be tomorrow. We'll have to wait 24 hours to know that.

Yeah, a long time ago it was a store of value, but for the past year has been a huge bag of dicks.
Such a simple notion, why do you find it so difficult to understand?

Sorry lambsy, gotta call you on this one.

The US dollar has been losing value consistently since the inception of the federal reserve.

Bitcoin is just taking a bit of a breather after an overheated speculation bubble.

The overall trend remains.

Fiat is *designed* to lose value over time. That's what discourages hoarding and encourages investing. Who but in idiot would invest in a business that earns 10% a year, when one could get more by simply keeping his money in a mattress? (The Bitcoiner's Dream) Fiat is not intended to be a good store of value.

Regardless of Bitcoin's claim to be a good store of value, over the last year Bitcoin has really been losing it--even when measured in USD! And since we both agree that fiat is utter shit store of value, how shit does that make Bitcoin?

And bitcoin is designed to gain or retain value over time.

Nice try, but I know you're only pretending.

NotLambchop

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