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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 24512. (Read 26711388 times)

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz

Not sure if people are joking... The plots may seem broken at first sight, but they are a consequence of large changes in the order book, at some distance from the spread.  Months ago, the changes were usually small and usually close to the spread, so the plot usually looked like a fairly smooth valley.

I don't think I buy that. The high value plots are too similar. I think Bitstamp is sending out old data.

Either chart buddy is drunk, or bitstamp is drunk, or I'm drunk, perhaps all three, either way, it's all g good

note, I have no account at bitstamp.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2373
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

I don't think I buy that. The high value plots are too similar. I think Bitstamp is sending out old data.

Confirmed. Those plots have the same, identical, *old* timestamp.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
Here's the [ formula ] I use:

Bmo = N x A

Bmo ~ total value bitcoin M0 (also called 'market cap')
N ~ total number of entities holding bitcoins
A ~ average Amount of value holding entities are willing to hold in btc

It appears likely that N is only going to keep increasing for the forseeable future (perhaps with exponential adoption rates at times).

A will stay around the same but also may increase as the confidence in holding value in btc becomes firmer.

You can let N to be any number of people, as long as it includes all people holding bitcoins in some time interval of interest and A is the average over that same set of people. 

So, let N be the number of all people who have held some bitcoin at any time since January.  Then N is fixed.

The Bmo of bitcoin has fallen 50% since January.  Therefore A must have fallen by that much, too.  So much for "A will stay around the same".

The formula is problematic also because it does not take into account the dynamics of BTC investing.  It seems that most of the extant bitcoins are held by "old" inactive investors, who are confident enough to hold them for a while longer, but were not confident enough to buy more coins over the last year.  (If the price keeps falling and they eventually decide to sell at 100 $/BTC, their old bitcoins would still have been a great investment, but any bitcoins acquired over the last year would have been a terrible one.)

So, the contribution to the A factor of those old investors does not depend on their confidence in bitcoin.  Rather, the amount of BTC that they are willing to hold is constant, and the amount of value that they are wlling to hold in BTC varies according to the market price of BTC, as determined by the Chinese traders.

In that case the value of A does not determine the market price, but is passively determined by it -- making the formula useless as a predictor of price.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2373
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Not sure if people are joking... The plots may seem broken at first sight, but they are a consequence of large changes in the order book, at some distance from the spread.  Months ago, the changes were usually small and usually close to the spread, so the plot usually looked like a fairly smooth valley.

I don't think I buy that. The high value plots are too similar. I think Bitstamp is sending out old data.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
that monetary velocity formula is a convenient fiction for ivory tower academic economists, e.g. I don't see anything about an human psychology factor in there.

Here's the one I use:

Bmo = N x A

Bmo ~ total value bitcoin M0 (also called 'market cap')
N ~ total number of entities holding bitcoins
A ~ average Amount of value holding entities are willing to hold in btc

It appears likely that N is only going to keep increasing for the forseeable future (perhaps with exponential adoption rates at times).
A will stay around the same but also may increase as the confidence in holding value in btc becomes firmer.

I just had to quote this so I can read it when I sober up.

Carry on.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 503
|| Web developer ||
wow.... bitcoin is crashing hard. Merchant sell pressure and no sign of recovery, wouldn't surprise me to hit 350 again by next monday. Good thing im in litecoin where the ratio is going up everyday and I can trade ltc/usd to compund that
We spoke yesterday about how many time it will take to raise 1k $ , today we talk about 350-300 $
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
wow.... bitcoin is crashing hard. Merchant sell pressure and no sign of recovery, wouldn't surprise me to hit 350 again by next monday. Good thing im in litecoin where the ratio is going up everyday and I can trade ltc/usd to compund that

sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 252
Here I Am !!
wow.... bitcoin is crashing hard. Merchant sell pressure and no sign of recovery, wouldn't surprise me to hit 350 again by next monday. Good thing im in litecoin where the ratio is going up everyday and I can trade ltc/usd to compund that
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
that monetary velocity formula is a convenient fiction for ivory tower academic economists, e.g. I don't see anything about an human psychology factor in there.

Here's the one I use:

Bmo = N x A

Bmo ~ total value bitcoin M0 (also called 'market cap')
N ~ total number of entities holding bitcoins
A ~ average Amount of value holding entities are willing to hold in btc

It appears likely that N is only going to keep increasing for the forseeable future (perhaps with exponential adoption rates at times).
A will stay around the same but also may increase as the confidence in holding value in btc becomes firmer.

This formula is correct. The consequence is that when a set of people wants to hold more value in money (everybody at the same time), the value will rise even while everybody holds the same number of coins. It also means that everybody can hold an unlimited positive value in the form of money. What is restricted, is the amount of consumable resources. So everybody can not spend all their money to consume at the same time. If so happens, the prices of consumable goods rise and the value of the money diminishes again.

This is possible exactly because money is not directly usable.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116

ChartBuddy refuses to accept price bellow 395  Grin it'll pick right up once we go above that

Even automated postings have standards
legendary
Activity: 1159
Merit: 1001

Chart Buddy has become deluded...  Shocked
member
Activity: 77
Merit: 10
that monetary velocity formula is a convenient fiction for ivory tower academic economists, e.g. I don't see anything about an human psychology factor in there.

Here's the one I use:

Bmo = N x A

Bmo ~ total value bitcoin M0 (also called 'market cap')
N ~ total number of entities holding bitcoins
A ~ average Amount of value holding entities are willing to hold in btc

It appears likely that N is only going to keep increasing for the forseeable future (perhaps with exponential adoption rates at times).
A will stay around the same but also may increase as the confidence in holding value in btc becomes firmer.

so ...  you're saying buy yes ?
legendary
Activity: 2833
Merit: 1851
In order to dump coins one must have coins

ChartBuddy refuses to accept price bellow 395  Grin it'll pick right up once we go above that
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
that monetary velocity formula is a convenient fiction for ivory tower academic economists, e.g. I don't see anything about an human psychology factor in there.

Here's the one I use:

Bmo = N x A

Bmo ~ total value bitcoin M0 (also called 'market cap')
N ~ total number of entities holding bitcoins
A ~ average Amount of value holding entities are willing to hold in btc

It appears likely that N is only going to keep increasing for the forseeable future (perhaps with exponential adoption rates at times).
A will stay around the same but also may increase as the confidence in holding value in btc becomes firmer.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
Chart Buddy doesn't give a fuck anymore.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
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