Author

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 256. (Read 26711908 times)

legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 11416
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
[edited out]
  I managed to pull off a lobster before I pulled out.

Hopefully some of your math and descriptions make sense to some other guys who might want to play around with it, but it seems kind of confusing to me... ..

Although I understand that pulling out a lobster might potentially mean a nice meal - hopefully for two, since who wants to share a lobster if you don't have to?

[edited out]
Even though I no longer have the larger mine. I do have  mine and a 1 year contract.

So if I shave off enoguh to pay the entire contract. which ends in august. I can 100% stack  what I mine from now til august.

and if coins crash to  my down ladder I get cheap corn.

I know what I make mining I know what i earn with signatures. I know what I sold during this runup.

so i can’t justify selling what the mining and signatures will earn from now till august.

In the end, you should have some estimates of your costs and your income and to figure out how much you are taking in and spending, and surely some of the dynamic can change if you are getting paid in bitcoin,  yet having expenses in fiat, so I personally would not suggest that you have any obligation to invest any money that is not after expenses (meaning within your discretionary income), so if you are mix matching your ladders on the way up and down with money that you consider to be part of your expenses or that you have not quite determined the extent of your discretionary income, then surely it can become more difficult for any outside observer to figure out if you might be overallocating in one direction or another.

I recall some periods of time that I had income in BTC, and sometimes I would let that income ride for a while or figure out how to offset that income with dollars somewhere else, and so if I could reconcile the accounts, then I might not have to do any buy or sale of BTC in places that I might otherwise have to buy or sell BTC... so sometimes I might have extra cash in another location that I can balance out with extra BTC that I had acquired, and so therefore, I am able to resolve my books and to maintain the level of allocation that i preferred to keep, so what I am suggesting that there could be times in which you are influx in between accounts and it is a lot more difficult to figure out how to resolve those accounts and to figure out what the balances should be depending on goals that can differ from one guy to the next in regards to deciding how much cash to keep on hand and how much BTC to keep on hand, and if there is a certain date that accounts need to be resolved by, then how close might it be permissible to put off resolution of the accounts, especially if they might be determined to be out of balance in one direction or the other.

but if my signature and mining earns 0.4 btc in 2025. selling .1 to .2 as we runup is not a big deal.

When you are accumulating more bitcoin, then that would be investment amounts, and I have always said that any new investments into bitcoin need to be 4-10 years or longer, otherwise they are trades rather than investments.

So of course, you seem to be trading rather than investing anyhow, since you don't seem to be even trying to hold new investments into bitcoin for at least 4 years.   

So are you treating the extra 0.2 or 0.3 BTC to be investments or trades?  If you don't sell in 2025, then when are you going to sell?  You are not planning 4 years or longer, so it is hard to be getting into what it is that you are trying to achieve with any extra that you were to hold? what is your timeline on that? can you make it 4 more years with adding those extra BTC to your stash?

You have already admitted on numerous occasions that historically, you had already been in the habit of selling way too many BTC since you treated your BTC income as a way to generate fiat within each of the years rather than investments that would be for 4-10 years or longer.   

Yeah, since you are getting quite elderly, you might not want to be continuing to add BTC to your stash, especially if you don't have at least 4 years that you are planning to hold any new bitcoin investment amounts.

Probably, it is best for you to figure out which portion that you are going to be able to invest and which portions you need for regular income.  Usually the rule of thumb it so spend from other non-BTC sources first, but it does make it a bit more complicated when you are receiving bitcoin as income and then you might be receiving bitcoin more than your other income and of course, there is a certain hypothesis that BTC is likely going to be a bit higher in 2025 than 2026 and perhaps 2027, yet we cannot be 100% sure about any of those kinds of things, either.

You already have various pots of funds that you spend from so you should be able to figure out how much to add to which  and how much to spend from which.. and you might already have some tentative plans for 2026 and 2027 too...

Oh and by the way we don't really know any of the BTC prices, yet we might hypothesize that BTC prices are likely to be higher in 2025 than they are in 2024, but then they might be lower in 2026 but perhaps not quite to 2024 levels (but we don't really know) and then in 2027 they might be lower than 2026 but perhaps slightly gravitating back up but still not quite as low as 2024 prices... again we really don't know just have some approximate ideas.

I personally recommend structuring plans in line with the 200-WMA instead of spot prices, since it is a bit easier to project that the 200-WMA is going to continue to go up, even if we might not know the exact rate, yet of course, when you sell any BTC you are still selling them at spot price rather than 200-WMA prices, and perhaps you might try to project that perhaps the spot price should be at least 25% higher than the 200-WMA to sell your portion for that month or quarter or whatever it might be that the time intervals that you are shaving off portions of your BTC, to the extent that you don't have income from other sources to spend first.
newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 4
but if my signature and mining earns 0.4 btc in 2025. selling .1 to .2 as we runup is not a big deal.

Yes, continue....
legendary
Activity: 4354
Merit: 9201
'The right to privacy matters'
but if my signature and mining earns 0.4 btc in 2025. selling .1 to .2 as we runup is not a big deal.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
legendary
Activity: 4354
Merit: 9201
'The right to privacy matters'
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1891
bitcoin retard
Why has Talkimg turned into dogshit these day.







Better question is why this board cannot afford its own storage server, is it having fun staying poor?

It's embarrassing.


were did all the donations go?

by this time I think it's obvious that they were/are not used for the forum much
newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 4
Elon Musk to run Department of Government Efficiency.

"DOGE"
 Cheesy

https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-confirms-elon-musk-in-his-cabinet-13253406

Unreal. I did not think I would exist in the simulation long enough to see admission of its existence made so clearly.

If you are in, then I am in as well  Grin.
This explains some otherwise unexplained things in our common "reality", from my personal perspective.

I think they will keep their confessions. Elon Musk is the world
Its rich man. As he manages his own coin doge.

That's why I think. It will become reality.

Quote
A deadline of 4 July 2026 has been put in place for the new DOGE to conclude its work.

Although it will last a long time. It is impossible to say what will happen in the end.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 4597
Elon Musk to run Department of Government Efficiency.

"DOGE"
 Cheesy

https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-confirms-elon-musk-in-his-cabinet-13253406

Unreal. I did not think I would exist in the simulation long enough to see admission of its existence made so clearly.

If you are in, then I am in as well  Grin.
This explains some otherwise unexplained things in our common "reality", from my personal perspective.
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114
Elon Musk to run Department of Government Efficiency.

"DOGE"
 Cheesy

https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-confirms-elon-musk-in-his-cabinet-13253406

Unreal. I did not think I would exist in the simulation long enough to see admission of its existence made so clearly.
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 11416
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
It seems that there are lots of traders trying to make a quick buck yo-yoing the corn.
That said, I barely had time to watch the action today.
Trying to read WO and watch some vids now.

What do you expect? 

Holy shit...


Pretty much we started out election day (largely 1 week ago on the 5th) right around upper $60ks (we could call it $69k-ish), and then we pretty much got a 4-day boost to about $76k until the 9th/10th, and then the next bump up came over the weekend (perhaps long weekend since Monday was a holiday in the US).. starting on the 10th at $76k-ish and then brought us to nearly $90k within two days.. .. but then in the last 24 hours we have pretty much been consolidating at the top of where we got (so far) .. so bouncing between $85k and $90k.. I would hardly call that yo-yo, yet..

The price move has mostly been up yet there really has not been any correction .. but just a bit of a pause in the UP.. at least so far.

I would surmise that price moves that are largely within 5% to 8% of the top are hardly even large enough to reach the definition of "yo-yoing"..   Maybe at least give me quick moves of more than 10% down to consider the possibility that there is anything meaningful going on, and really, 10% is not even really that great of a pause in the UPpity.. though sure it is enough for traders to make profits... or try to scare out some weak hands, too.
legendary
Activity: 2520
Merit: 3038
Oh.. you were betting on longs more than 1:1 because you wanted to get richie faster..
Yes.

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don't you still have to pay for how long your short is open?
Only if
A. You use perpetuals as opposed to ordinary expiring futures
B. Funding rate is negative

A _and_ B

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So let's say that
when the BTC price was around $27k in October 2023, you decided to short
You put 0.5 BTC on your bet which would be equivalent of $13.5k
if he closes it at $88k, then he would still get back 0.1534 BTC?  plus some kind of fee?  what is the fee?

short (virtual sell) 13500 1$ contracts @27k btc price = 0.5BTC
close position: re-buy the same 0.5 btc @88k btc price = $44000
So you're down ($44000 - $13500) = $27500,
in btc = -$27500 * (1BTC / $88000) = -0.292BTC

Note that if it's a long that goes belly up, it's worse.

long (virtual buy) 13500 1$ contracts @88k btc price = 0.153BTC
close the position: sell the same 0.153 btc @27k price ~ $4150
So you're down ($13500 - $4150) = $9350,
in btc = -$9350 * (1BTC / $27000) = -0.346BTC

That's why these inverse futures (perpetual or expiring) are good for shorting, not for longing. Carry trade and all that.

In the case of expiring futures, that's it. In the case of perpetuals, if shorting in positive funding rate conditions you'd have got some funding to soften the blow. The funding does not go to the exchange but to other traders: Longs pay shorts if positive (more common), shorts pay longs if negative (uncommon).

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Do you recommend that I should learn about employing this tactic?
No.

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it is offsetting your longs then you might just be emotionally neutral about it?
I have done that in times of sideways in the past to profit from up-down volatility, but you must close long legs and short legs separately of course, closely following the ups and downs. It's a full time job and a risky one, because the long leg can always get liquidated if the price moves against you (downity). As i said, the short leg won't - as long as it isn't leveraged above 1.

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but yeah, I suppose that it is best if you have some kind of a target price to close it?
This time the closing target price was obtained by a sophisticated SOMA model fed with recent sentiment data (been gainz, so now she takes a break). I tried to let it ride, but number went back up, so thanks to my protective stop placed near my shorting price (but still below it, meaning in positive territory), I managed to pull off a lobster before I pulled out.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 4597
It seems that there are lots of traders trying to make a quick buck yo-yoing the corn.
That said, I barely had time to watch the action today.
Trying to read WO and watch some vids now.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 4
Broom or rusty pipe?

Hahaha "rusty pipe"

I think, asking $9k is too much for Rick.
legendary
Activity: 2520
Merit: 3038
Rick is like "$9k for a broom? Are you fuggin' nuts?"


A ranch, two lovers
A different lambo moment
Broom or rusty pipe?










#haiku
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 11416
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
I thought that you graduated past your days of fucking around with shorts
I actually only got bitten by longs. Mathematically, inverse shorts with < 1:1 leverage cannot be liquidated (although they will indeed wipe you out at 1mil or some other arbitrary limit depending on arithmetic precision).

Oh.. you were betting on longs more than 1:1 because you wanted to get richie faster.. instead of eddie, you wanted to be richie?  So with the longs you were not satisfied with 1:1 like most of us normal bitcoiners who just buy bitcoin on a regular basis?

At the risk of revealing how dumb I am when it comes to shorts, don't you still have to pay for how long your short is open?  

So let's say that you were like Paashaas or some other forum member and when the BTC price was around $27k in October 2023, you decided to short because you thought that the BTC prices were going to go down to sub $20k.. .. so you were planning on closing your short at around $20k.  You put 0.5 BTC on your bet which would be equivalent of $13.5k.  What happens?  The BTC price ended up going up rather than down, yet Paashaas continues to hope that the BTC price returns down so that he can get back his 0.5 BTC,   Are you saying that it does not cost him anything, so if he closes it, then he will still get the value of $13.5k.. .. so if he closes it at $88k, then he would still get back 0.1534 BTC?  plus some kind of fee?  what is the fee?  Do you recommend that I should learn about employing this tactic?

this time might be within a realm of predictability
In my experience, it rarely if ever is.

Ok... so you already closed it, then?
After I posted that, actually, but yes. As I said, I'm not good at the short game either.

I would imagine that it is easy to get nervous, but if it is offsetting your longs then you might just be emotionally neutral about it?  but yeah, I suppose that it is best if you have some kind of a target price to close it?

That is likely part of your problem, phil.. selling with an expectation of being able to buy back cheaper.
Or not. I'm not speaking for Phil, but have you looked at the numbers? It seems to me he's just shaving off a bit while she goes up, which is not so different from what your lil selfie does and advocates  - albeit possibly with a different strategy.

Sure his numbers are small, but I am not shaving off with an expectation of buying back lower, even though I do frequently end up buying back some at lower prices.  These days I am shaving off only about 5% for every time the BTC price doubles, although originally I authorized myself to shave a bit more than 10% for every time the BTC price doubles.

He can add up his numbers, yet I think that he is shaving off much more than me, and also his mindset is different in regards to wanting to buy back cheaper.

Another thing that I suggest is that no one sell any BTC until they have reached their accumulation goal, and even more preferably that they have over-accumulated.  I know that this is a bit of a vague goal, so any  of us who have overaccumulated bitcoin are more free to shave off from the overaccumulated amount, so just by definition there is not a goal to accumulate more BTC, yet since the BTC price is so volatile and inevitably volatile, it is quite likely that frequently the BTC price will drop back down to be able to buy with the sales proceeds, but the goal of selling is not to buy back but the dropping of the BTC price causes such situation where buying back seems prudent as a kind of portfolio insurance... to make lemonade of out of lemons, or at least to make a bad situation slightly less bad.

Even though everyone is free to do what they want, I still feel that I am justified in picking on Phil on a fairly frequent basis, even though I don't dislike him.. Of course, he disagrees on some of it from time to time he will even come out swinging.


That kind of expectation has reckt a lot of folks over the years
A few mBTC  aren't gonna mindrust no one. Snap out of it! --batman--

I cannot argue with you about those kinds of things.  I throw down some extra sats here and there from time to time in one direction or another... so it is not like I am completely puritanical on the topic.

dilemma that the USA ends up facing
other countries attempt to front run
causing the need to actually fulfill the campaign promise.
Admitting the other countries hypothetically believe the orange man to actually be willing and able to go through with 15% or more of his statements.

Of course, in game theory, none of the parties are always going to have all of the information, so they frequently have to position themselves in ways that account for a variety of scenarios, and even though I don't completely buy into the explanation that the BTC price is experiencing a Trump Pump, I would not claim that the orange man win is not having some affect on BTC price UPpity pressures and also may well contributing towards retail, institutions and even governments to consider buying more BTC than they otherwise were planning to buy...so the pump has its own kind of snowballing effects that contribute to others considering that others are buying and getting ahead.. especially since the game theory play of bitcoin incentivizes getting in first and before others.

I'm guilty as charged
I've got a stop, will buy back
Side gig, Your Honor!
#haiku
That is the thing with gambling.
It is difficult to stop
The (conservative) stop did its job. I made a tidy but not life-changing profit - about as much as a lobster & champagne dinner for two (or starred dining if you're into that). As an additional benefit, for one night I can probably save the hooker money as long as I have the lambo and some blow ready.

All valid considerations.   You won't get any arguments from me on those points.  When I started setting up my buy orders and sell orders in the  mid-$200s, if I had sell orders filling and then buy orders filling, then sometimes I would calculate the profits out to less than $1.. maybe even something like 26¢, and so in those early days, it took a lot of filling of back and forth orders to add up to anything meaningful... yet as the BTC price went up my authorizations went up, my spreads got larger and so each order added up to be more and more, and these days they sometimes are $100 or more, but if there are several of them that execute and they go back and forth and then after all is said and done, the profits could add up to quite a bit, yet a lot of times, I just let the profits (if any) just fold back into my stash either on the bitcoin side or the dollar side that is available for buying... or just sometimes cashing out some of it to buy some extra treat...but yeah, for me the value goes way up from the BTC price going up rather than down, and even some expectations of the BTC price going up could end up being delayed.. like shouldn't we have had been here in the $80ks in 2021 or 2022?.... apparently not.. we were delayed by a few years.. 3-ish years..

but yeah in the end, from my own perspective, I consider that such delay is not really a big deal as long as balances had been mostly maintained so that none of us (including yours truly) don't run out of dollars to buy on the way down (which brought us down to $15,479-ish in November 2022, and we don't run out of BTC to sell on the way up.  I have never ever even come close to that kind of a problem to run out of BTC on the way up, even though maybe in the 2017 run I might have sold the most percentage wise of any of the runs.. and I still ended up having some relatively small regrets in regards to the way that I handled some of my portfolio management during that time... and so the devil remains in the details in regards to how much BTC each of us might sell or keep on each end of that equation to try to manage our cash and bitcoin balances.
newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 4
It has been a long gap for me on the forum and I am back again after almost 300 days because a lot was going on but with the bitcoin bouncing back again it’s time for me to again be part of the bitcoin community with my first post again in WO board

Chart buddy the green charts are heading to $90k and those who were saying $100k is a dream hope you all are still sleeping. Bitcoin is soaring  Wink

We are still awake. BTC 100k dream but will see very soon.
 Even if we go to sleep, btc increasing will never sleep Cheesy

Hy Wlcome, OW board.

legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 2124
It has been a long gap for me on the forum and I am back again after almost 300 days because a lot was going on but with the bitcoin bouncing back again it’s time for me to again be part of the bitcoin community with my first post again in WO board

Chart buddy the green charts are heading to $90k and those who were saying $100k is a dream hope you all are still sleeping. Bitcoin is soaring  Wink
newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 4

It is very good to see this seven story. 3 out of 7 seems best to me.

Quote
  • The mysterious creator of Bitcoin
  • Making history with pizza
  • Kazakhstan's crypto boom and bust
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