Explanation
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 26154. (Read 26710560 times)
August 26, 2014, 12:59:26 PM
August 26, 2014, 12:55:51 PM
tax is a given, just how it's collected and defined is what people argue over.
the markup or profit taken from any service or consumer good is a tax.
jurisdictional taxes should be viable too, its just problematic at the moment because we (the people - not global corporates) are not free to move in the physical world to a jurisdiction with out tax, but now that money works in a trust free virtual environment things may change.
the markup or profit taken from any service or consumer good is a tax.
jurisdictional taxes should be viable too, its just problematic at the moment because we (the people - not global corporates) are not free to move in the physical world to a jurisdiction with out tax, but now that money works in a trust free virtual environment things may change.
August 26, 2014, 12:55:06 PM
realize that the free market does NOT accomplish the objectives the same as the public creation of various education institutions and infrastructure.
I disagree. People in general realize education is important and will go out of their way to obtain it for their children (There is historical evidence for this by the way). And being discerning consumers and not the money firehose that is the government, they will ensure they obtain value for money.
We know this, because the government has to use the threat of fines and jail both to force parents to send their children to those institutions and also to pay the taxes that fund them.
Our best guess is that education in a free market would probably be the opposite of government-provided education.
I was assuming sane objectives
August 26, 2014, 12:54:58 PM
it is sad how most Americans have no clue about what is really going around the world, and still think that USA is the greatest country in the world and the land of "freedom", when most of their follow citizen still struggles and cant get the basics of a free education and health care.
Free education? How do the teachers feed and house themselves?
The students don't have to pay all their lives for loans, their education comes from already paid taxes which goes to pay teachers and expenses of college... I for once paid annually 20€ for registration fee in college and another 40€ for my dorm room, then there is the student coupons (supported price from the government ) to use in restaurants.
If I pay my tax they better use it to make my life and the life of my children better, most EU and north African countries have this system, but in the US they instead spend tax money exporting "democracy" and "freedom" around the world, billions of dollars spent on war while millions of Americans struggle in poverty and losing the basic human rights, things that even central Africans are improving at.
So not free. Good. Let's actually acknowledge those people who are going out there and working day after day to pay for this stuff and realize that this stuff doesn't just fall from the sky.
well, we all pay taxes, same like you do in the US but we don't have to additionally take loans and be in debt all our lives to pay back what we should be entitled to in the first place, we all have the same equal chance for education here... it is just sad to see talented people in the US having to escape college because they cant afford it, this is all what I am saying.
I pay taxes for one reason only: the gov has more guns than I do. It's not legit because it's involuntary. If anyone else forced you to give them money, it would be called what it is. ROBBERY!
Yes we have had fairly long postings about this topic previously regarding your (and others) all too simplified view that the government is robbing the people... which is just a bunch of baloney simplification to suggest that getting rid of the government is the solution to all societal ills.. and probably NOT even worth getting into any deeper discussion of such extremist ideas that seem to have little or NO plan about how to get to the supposed ideal state of NO government and little or NO outline regarding what society will look like once we arrive at such a government -less state, if we were to arrive in some meaningful state of supposed survival of the fittest?
August 26, 2014, 12:48:32 PM
it is sad how most Americans have no clue about what is really going around the world, and still think that USA is the greatest country in the world and the land of "freedom", when most of their follow citizen still struggles and cant get the basics of a free education and health care.
Free education? How do the teachers feed and house themselves?
The students don't have to pay all their lives for loans, their education comes from already paid taxes which goes to pay teachers and expenses of college... I for once paid annually 20€ for registration fee in college and another 40€ for my dorm room, then there is the student coupons (supported price from the government ) to use in restaurants.
If I pay my tax they better use it to make my life and the life of my children better, most EU and north African countries have this system, but in the US they instead spend tax money exporting "democracy" and "freedom" around the world, billions of dollars spent on war while millions of Americans struggle in poverty and losing the basic human rights, things that even central Africans are improving at.
You don't know squat about the 'poor' in America.
I grew up dirt-poor, as we say on the south. My father was an uneducated, unskilled worker in a cotton mill, and my mother was a full-time mother to 7 kids. We never went hungry or without clothes because my father was both frugal enough and industrious enough to make sure we always had what we needed - without ANY government assistance - even though plenty of that was available to those who would take it.
In America, there is always someone who will pay you to do useful work, and my father took advantage of that fact to supplement his income. On the weekends, he would grab me and/or one of my brothers and we would go do house painting or general handyman work, yard work, or whatever we could to make a little money. We also did plenty of hunting and fishing to supplement the food budget.
When I left high school, my family didn't have the money to send me to college. I went to work in the same cotton mill where my father (and his father) had worked and EARNED the money to send myself to college. My siblings did exactly the same. One sister is a veterinarian, one is a nurse, I'm an engineer, one brother owns a construction company now, another is a CS geek - well you get the picture... All of us achieved what we have without the handouts you seem to believe are REQUIRED to escape 'poverty', and I never owed ANYBODY any student loans - because I went to college BEFORE government interference in the education market drove the prices through the roof.
The only people in America I have ever seen "struggling in poverty" were doing so because they chose to depend on the government to support them.
People like you would voluntarily make yourselves into livestock owned by your 'government'. Well, have fun with that.
I agree that the US government spends what to much money on imperialistic endeavors, but that is another argument for another time...
There is NOTHING wrong with working hard to get ahead, and it is laudable in many ways. However, your suggestion that we do NOT need government seems to be an oversimplification of social structures.
Additionally, you seem to imply that various government assistance had made people too lazy and unwiling to work and those bad incentives are responsible for the devolving infrastructure in America, and I think that you are personally missing the big picture manipulation that goes on by a lot of wealthy people to undermine government and to undermine various governmental services in order that poor people do NOT benefit and that they can run away with more of the pie (or at least prevent regular people from getting any of it).
Wealth disparity in this country has devolved to tragic lows b/c of lack of strength of government and lack of ability or willingness to keep some of the wealthy decision makers and movers in their place.. whether it is job creation or export of jobs or other ways that they leach off of the public infrastructure to run away with and to steal wealth from the public sphere... that has worsened in the last 30 years or so.... and little by little eroded the whole social fabric of the country... with stupid ass ideas that the only value is rugged individualism and lack of government as the solution to all social ills...
August 26, 2014, 12:47:47 PM
realize that the free market does NOT accomplish the objectives the same as the public creation of various education institutions and infrastructure.
I disagree. People in general realize education is important and will go out of their way to obtain it for their children (There is historical evidence for this by the way). And being discerning consumers and not the money firehose that is the government, they will ensure they obtain value for money.
We know this, because the government has to use the threat of fines and jail both to force parents to send their children to those institutions and also to pay the taxes that fund them.
Our best guess is that education in a free market would probably be the opposite of government-provided education.
August 26, 2014, 12:46:42 PM
Tax system is necessary for human community, isn't it? I thought it was common knowledge.
Whether taxes are spent properly is a different issue, isn't it?
Those who survived without tax can not say other people do not need tax support. If they say so, they don't really need bitcoin as well, as they don't need community.
Humans are social, by nature. Bitcoin will have to go well with tax. But, it does not necessarily go well with fiat!
Whether taxes are spent properly is a different issue, isn't it?
Those who survived without tax can not say other people do not need tax support. If they say so, they don't really need bitcoin as well, as they don't need community.
Humans are social, by nature. Bitcoin will have to go well with tax. But, it does not necessarily go well with fiat!
just because we haven't figured out how to organize human communities in such a way that they build roads, hospitals, schools, support to those who need it. ( modern society ) without the need for a central authority, doesn't mean it is impossible.
the bitcoin model could hold the key, replace the central authority with some kind of AI that everyone gets a say how it thinks and acts? tax may still be the way, but the at least the rules would serve the will of the majority by designs.
crazy tough question...
August 26, 2014, 12:44:29 PM
Hahaaa, interesting comment. I think the extrapolation isn't proper but I'm confused and not in a position to argue. Any one comment on the extrapolation?
You'd get the most from it if you pondered on it by yourself for a while.
August 26, 2014, 12:42:49 PM
Tax system is necessary for human community, isn't it? I thought it was common knowledge.
Whether taxes are spent properly is a different issue, isn't it?
Those who survived without tax can not say other people do not need tax support. If they say so, they don't really need bitcoin as well, as they don't need community.
Humans are social, by nature. Bitcoin will have to go well with tax. But, it does not necessarily go well with fiat!
Whether taxes are spent properly is a different issue, isn't it?
Those who survived without tax can not say other people do not need tax support. If they say so, they don't really need bitcoin as well, as they don't need community.
Humans are social, by nature. Bitcoin will have to go well with tax. But, it does not necessarily go well with fiat!
Rape is necessary for human romantic relationships, isn't it? I though it was common knowledge.
Whether the victims are chosen properly is a different issue, isn't is?
Those who can obtain consensual sex without rape can not say that other people do not need to resort to rape. If they say so, they don't really need sex as well, as they don't need community.
Humans are social, by nature, therefore rape is a necessary part of romantic relationships.
Hahaaa, interesting comment. I think the extrapolation isn't proper but I'm confused and not in a position to argue. Any one comment on the extrapolation?
August 26, 2014, 12:40:12 PM
realize that the free market does NOT accomplish the objectives the same as the public creation of various education institutions and infrastructure.
I disagree. People in general realize education is important and will go out of their way to obtain it for their children (There is historical evidence for this by the way). And being discerning consumers and not the money firehose that is the government, they will ensure they obtain value for money.
If you want to argue that there are some (very) few people who would lose out and would benefit from a safety net, I'll give you that.
August 26, 2014, 12:36:37 PM
it is sad how most Americans have no clue about what is really going around the world, and still think that USA is the greatest country in the world and the land of "freedom", when most of their follow citizen still struggles and cant get the basics of a free education and health care.
Free education? How do the teachers feed and house themselves?
The students don't have to pay all their lives for loans, their education comes from already paid taxes which goes to pay teachers and expenses of college... I for once paid annually 20€ for registration fee in college and another 40€ for my dorm room, then there is the student coupons (supported price from the government ) to use in restaurants.
If I pay my tax they better use it to make my life and the life of my children better, most EU and north African countries have this system, but in the US they instead spend tax money exporting "democracy" and "freedom" around the world, billions of dollars spent on war while millions of Americans struggle in poverty and losing the basic human rights, things that even central Africans are improving at.
So not free. Good. Let's actually acknowledge those people who are going out there and working day after day to pay for this stuff and realize that this stuff doesn't just fall from the sky.
Education is one of those public goods that we should value, and realize that the free market does NOT accomplish the objectives the same as the public creation of various education institutions and infrastructure. Surely in the current system, there seems be a large array of institutions and infrastructure, including profit making ones, which may or may NOT contribute to the public goods.
However since this is a public good, the people should be deciding their allocation priorities - including the elections and appointments of responsible persons to oversee such various allocation priorities.
August 26, 2014, 12:32:26 PM
Tax system is necessary for human community, isn't it? I thought it was common knowledge.
Whether taxes are spent properly is a different issue, isn't it?
Those who survived without tax can not say other people do not need tax support. If they say so, they don't really need bitcoin as well, as they don't need community.
Humans are social, by nature. Bitcoin will have to go well with tax. But, it does not necessarily go well with fiat!
Whether taxes are spent properly is a different issue, isn't it?
Those who survived without tax can not say other people do not need tax support. If they say so, they don't really need bitcoin as well, as they don't need community.
Humans are social, by nature. Bitcoin will have to go well with tax. But, it does not necessarily go well with fiat!
Rape is necessary for human romantic relationships, isn't it? I though it was common knowledge.
Whether the victims are chosen properly is a different issue, isn't is?
Those who can obtain consensual sex without rape can not say that other people do not need to resort to rape. If they say so, they don't really need sex as well, as they don't need community.
Humans are social, by nature, therefore rape is a necessary part of romantic relationships.
August 26, 2014, 12:26:21 PM
August 26, 2014, 12:26:16 PM
Where we heading these days? Up?
Backwards.
Btw LOVE that avatar.
August 26, 2014, 12:25:18 PM
Where we heading these days? Up?
August 26, 2014, 12:24:02 PM
interesting reading, I don't think our schools are bad to be honest, I agree that private schools can "offer" more than what public schools offer, but this doesn't mean that public schools have to be shitty...
Indeed. Mine was actually pretty good compared to many. The question really is whether it necessary for the government to fund them (given the way they obtain those funds) and the quality of education obtained vs that money spent elsewhere (or, conversely, whether a similar level of education can be obtained by spending/taking less money).
However, many people live in areas with bad schools. And they can't go private because the government is confiscating too much of their income and they can't move to a better catchment area because the government is confiscating too much of their income.
August 26, 2014, 12:20:16 PM
Tax system is necessary for human community, isn't it?
Good question to start with. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
August 26, 2014, 12:19:33 PM
When I was a kid, my mother could call the local doctor and he would COME TO OUR HOUSE and treat us (an unbelievable concept in America now), and he would charge us $10 for that service. Everyone I knew was about as poor as we were, but I cannot once remember hearing someone say "Oh my God, what will we do about the medical bills?". The mess that the American health care system is in now is another creation of our government - but again, that is a long argument that exceeds greatly the bounds of this thread.
The mess that is the American education system that mmitech is decrying is also the fault of the government.
This is worth a read http://mises.org/daily/1425
interesting reading, I don't think our schools are bad to be honest, I agree that private schools can "offer" more than what public schools offer, but this doesn't mean that public schools have to be shitty...
August 26, 2014, 12:07:42 PM
Tax system is necessary for human community, isn't it? I thought it was common knowledge.
Whether taxes are spent properly is a different issue, isn't it?
Those who survived without tax can not say other people do not need tax support. If they say so, they don't really need bitcoin as well, as they don't need community.
Humans are social, by nature. Bitcoin will have to go well with tax. But, it does not necessarily go well with fiat!
Whether taxes are spent properly is a different issue, isn't it?
Those who survived without tax can not say other people do not need tax support. If they say so, they don't really need bitcoin as well, as they don't need community.
Humans are social, by nature. Bitcoin will have to go well with tax. But, it does not necessarily go well with fiat!
August 26, 2014, 12:06:18 PM
200 coin asks on BFX at 510, 511, 512, 513, 514, and 515. At least this guy has the sense of humor to make a nice piece of artwork out of the order book while he holds us down...
...and he will have to buy them back again at some point, if we manage to break through. And we could get a short squeeze on those 5500 coins.
510 walls got eaten.
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