Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 26976. (Read 26656700 times)

In short, Satoshi was clearly thinking long-term with Bitcoin, or he got very, very lucky.  Either way, we are all very much in his debt for getting it so right on the first go.

But this has absolutely nothing to do with coin valuation. By the logic of your argument an almost infinite number of small coin networks renders any large coin network of 0 value (say a 1 million user network in relation to 10^30 networks of coins with 10 users each also effectively leads to a value of practically 0 for the 1 million user network)

The relative value of any particular PoS coin is directly proportional to the size of the network of the coin you are measuring, divided by the size of the networks of all PoS coins.  Since the number of PoS coins is not limited, and the network size of each of them is not limited by competing for a scarce resource such as energy, the denominator will grow much more quickly than the numerator, leading value to $0 over the long term.

The relative value of any particular PoW coin is directly proportional to the size of the network of the coin you are measuring, divided by the size of the networks of all PoW coins.  Since the network size of each PoW coin is limited by competing for a scarce resource (miners and energy), the size of the networks of all PoW coins is limited.  When a new PoW coin is created, it must take from the pool of miners/energy by reducing the size of another coin's network to increase its own.  This means the relative value of any particular PoW coin is much more resistant to being drained as new PoW coins pop up.  The new coins will have to fight for resources with the existing coins, which is generally very difficult to succeed at versus large coins such as Bitcoin.  Thus, well established PoW coins will generally have a stable value regardless of the introduction of new PoW coins.

My solution is XMR.  If my balance can not be known, I can give up a throw-away wallet.  If the fact that I have a balance can not be known, I will never be targeted for extortion.

if someone is holding you... and saying, "your bitcoins or your life", which one would you prefer to keep? 

I'm not a fan of PoS but I disagree. It is like taking off the restrictions for fractions of bitcoins making them infinitely divisible and then saying that will make them worthless. You can have intricate rules for any coin on how much a block will reward providing infinite possibilities for altcoins.

The value of coins is the trust in the system technology wise, its current utility and how it will develop in the future.

If you trade with bitcoin, you should watch the Chinese exchanges most of all. 

I keep both.. All I do is turn to them and say,

"if you kill me, nobody will have access to my bitcoins. I am worth so much more alive since only I know the password. If you let me go immediately I will consider (a) giving you a few satoshis, (b) not going to the police, pressing charges and having you sent to prison. The longer you delay, the less likely a and b will happen.."

But in reality I will have my bitcoins go to family or friends if I die, and I would never give them any satoshis no matter how quickly they release me, and will do my best to land them in prison no matter what..

 

Work extra to buy a bitcoin. Time better spent than monitoring the chinese exchanges. And who knows, one day you might actually be grateful for it.

The price in China suddenly stabilized and was flat for 45 minutes straight, and volume fell to very low levels -- even though trade is usually still strong at this hour. And now trade is picking up again.

How strange. Does anyone know of some phenomenon that lasts almost exactly 45 minutes? 

The price in China suddenly stabilized and was flat for 45 minutes straight, and volume fell to very low levels -- even though trade is usually still strong at this hour. And now trade is picking up again.

How strange. Does anyone know of some phenomenon that lasts almost exactly 45 minutes? 

The price in China suddenly stabilized and was flat for 45 minutes straight, and volume fell to very low levels -- even though trade is usually still strong at this hour. And now trade is picking up again.

How strange. Does anyone know of some phenomenon that lasts almost exactly 45 minutes? 

I've been doing some analysis on the latest craze, Proof of Stake coins like NXT.  On the surface they look like a good deal, with innovation and some great ideas.  But they appear to suffer from one very fatal flaw.  Proof of Work coins are backed by energy.  Those providing the Proof (miners here) must choose one coin on which to spend their energy to provide it.  Proof of Stake coins have no such protection.

You cannot double-spend your energy and use it to mine multiple Proof of Work coins (e.g. X Bitcoin and Y Litecoin mined with the same energy expenditure as mining just X Bitcoin or just Y Litecoin).  New coins may pop up, but they must fight over the limited supply of miners/energy.  This fight over a limited resource ensures you will not see an infinite number of Proof of Work coins pop up running in parallel.  This backing by energy ensures we will not see inflation through endless chains of PoW coins.

Proof of Stake coins do not have this protection.  Those providing the Proof of Stake, the holders of coins, can freely hold an unlimited number of different PoS currencies, rather than being forced to choose to mine only one with each unit of electricity.  Each PoS coin causes no pressure on the others.  Thus, an infinite number of PoS coins can flood the market.  With no limited resource (miners/energy) being competed for by all the PoS coins, the value that investors look to store in such coins will be diluted more and more over time as new PoS coins are created.  This makes PoS coins worthless as a store of value, regardless of the individual characteristics of any particular PoS coin.

In short, Satoshi was clearly thinking long-term with Bitcoin, or he got very, very lucky.  Either way, we are all very much in his debt for getting it so right on the first go.

I'm not talking about the bootstrapping.  I'm talking about any coin that enters a purely PoS phase with nothing else required to confirm transactions.  An infinite number of coins can enter such a phase, diluting any value stored in them to the point of worthlessness.  All PoS coins (any coin that enters a pure PoS phase) will trend to $0 because of this, as more PoS coins come into existence.

PoW coins do not suffer from this problem as they all compete for limited mining resources.  Thus PoW coins actually do provide a good store of value.

Satoshi was long term thinking but here it's more based on the circumstances. POS can't bootstrap itself, it's always based directly or indirectly on a POW bootstrapping

I've been doing some analysis on the latest craze, Proof of Stake coins like NXT.  On the surface they look like a good deal, with innovation and some great ideas.  But they appear to suffer from one very fatal flaw.  Proof of Work coins are backed by energy.  Those providing the Proof (miners here) must choose one coin on which to spend their energy to provide it.  Proof of Stake coins have no such protection.

You cannot double-spend your energy and use it to mine multiple Proof of Work coins (e.g. X Bitcoin and Y Litecoin mined with the same energy expenditure as mining just X Bitcoin or just Y Litecoin).  New coins may pop up, but they must fight over the limited supply of miners/energy.  This fight over a limited resource ensures you will not see an infinite number of Proof of Work coins pop up running in parallel.  This backing by energy ensures we will not see inflation through endless chains of PoW coins.

Proof of Stake coins do not have this protection.  Those providing the Proof of Stake, the holders of coins, can freely hold an unlimited number of different PoS currencies, rather than being forced to choose to mine only one with each unit of electricity.  Each PoS coin causes no pressure on the others.  Thus, an infinite number of PoS coins can flood the market.  With no limited resource (miners/energy) being competed for by all the PoS coins, the value that investors look to store in such coins will be diluted more and more over time as new PoS coins are created.  This makes PoS coins worthless as a store of value, regardless of the individual characteristics of any particular PoS coin.

In short, Satoshi was clearly thinking long-term with Bitcoin, or he got very, very lucky.  Either way, we are all very much in his debt for getting it so right on the first go.