Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29424.

JorgeStolfi

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: yrtrnc on February 21, 2014, 04:44:11 AM

How come there are no Japanese people protesting? Afterall it is Japan

I understood that withdrawals in Yen to local banks worked much better and/or for a longer time than international ones.

Also the Japanese know that "one needs a license to protest".

zyk

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 101

Quote from: Dragonkiller on February 21, 2014, 07:35:45 AM

Why do people assume thieves are more likely to sell?

Depends on who the thiefs are and their KYC registration..food for thought

electronistul

full member

Activity: 160

Merit: 100

You guys ready for $1000+ coins * ? CCMF, to da moon!

* as soon as Gox resumes withdrawals and they start buying in as sheep that they are

zyk

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 101

Quote from: FTWbitcoinFTW on February 21, 2014, 07:16:19 AM

Quote from: BitThink on February 21, 2014, 07:10:28 AM

I guess Mark can sell his real BTC on other exchanges and buy a lot of Mtgox BTC to cover the loss. He can easily double or even triple his BTC holding in this way. I don't think his loss will be more than 1/3 of his holding.

It's one of the multiple possible plot for all this story.

Malleability bug == missing bitcoin, let's say 10K

Mark sold 1500BTC from gox treasory @$900

Buy back 11K @ $100/$200

No more missing BTC

OMG...who has been selling him 11000 real BTC for a 100 bucks.... you? cause you panicked?

Dragonkiller

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Available Now!

Why do people assume thieves are more likely to sell?

San1ty

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: Ivanhoe on February 21, 2014, 07:21:03 AM

Why is bitcoinwisdom showing a volume of almost 2k the last 15 minutes, while i can't find any of that in the trade history Huh

edit: reloaded the page and it's showing the right volume now.

Haha, you young padawan.

Bitcoinwisdom has:
- A fucked up MACD calculation
- A wrong volume bug that's been around for ages.

I wrote my own personal data gatherer and charting, because none of those third party sites are good enough.

dreamspark

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

Quote from: HairyMaclairy on February 21, 2014, 07:23:50 AM

No one has provided any evidence they have competent coding either.

Inompetent at coding != emptying cold storage adresses

billyjoeallen

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1007

Hide your women

Quote from: Yololintian on February 21, 2014, 05:37:18 AM

Quote from: F-bernanke on February 21, 2014, 05:32:31 AM

Quote from: gizmoh on February 21, 2014, 05:30:48 AM

Ain't looking good at all, the failed transaction started early NOVEMBER, i had got 2 withdrawals stuck back then.
So that's 3 months of exploiting the Gox Automatic Giving Machine.

This means that there are less coins available than we thought, price should go up.

To the contrary, it means hundreds of thousands of coins have been stolen, which may be sold at any time on other exchanges and greatly increasing the supply and thus decreasing the price.

This started months ago. Most of the coins would have already been sold.

HairyMaclairy

legendary

Activity: 1442

Merit: 2282

Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist

No one has provided any evidence they have competent coding either.

dreamspark

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

I just cannot see how they are insolvent, its just not very likely at all.

Listen to the last letstalkbitcoin podcast it explains why they would take so long in regards to fixing and also the huge amount of bots that are probably trying to carry out the same fraud so they have to take it all very slowly.

I dont doubt that gox took a hit but no one has provided any evidence that they would blindly keep transfering cold storage funds to their hot wallet and non of their software would do a simple check against total account balances vs wallet balances.

Ivanhoe

hero member

Activity: 841

Merit: 1000

Why is bitcoinwisdom showing a volume of almost 2k the last 15 minutes, while i can't find any of that in the trade history Huh

edit: reloaded the page and it's showing the right volume now.

FTWbitcoinFTW

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: BitThink on February 21, 2014, 07:10:28 AM

I guess Mark can sell his real BTC on other exchanges and buy a lot of Mtgox BTC to cover the loss. He can easily double or even triple his BTC holding in this way. I don't think his loss will be more than 1/3 of his holding.

It's one of the multiple possible plot for all this story.

Malleability bug == missing bitcoin, let's say 10K

Mark sold 1500BTC from gox treasory @$900

Buy back 11K @ $100/$200

No more missing BTC

zyk

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 101

Those who are selling at Gox and of course are able to cash out are running with everybodies money and you people

are dreaming up stories why it can´t be so and are even delivering his laywers excuses, why there won´t be anything

left to sue about.

Hilarious how easy such a con can be delivered to bitcoin community....any other exchange can be expected to

do the same....its about many millions of bribes after all.

BitThink

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1000

I guess Mark can sell his real BTC on other exchanges and buy a lot of Mtgox BTC to cover the loss. He can easily double or even triple his BTC holding in this way. I don't think his loss will be more than 1/3 of his holding.

HairyMaclairy

legendary

Activity: 1442

Merit: 2282

Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist

There is a difference between thinking some coins are missing and knowing the reason why.

Although using some of your tens of millions on running a proper audit trail might be a good start.

ChartBuddy

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 1823

1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

Quote from: windjc on February 21, 2014, 06:16:32 AM

Quote from: Jasmin68k on February 21, 2014, 05:11:31 AM

Today on #bitcoin

gmaxwell: wumpus: yea, I understand they had timed automatic reissues... Sad

this was also something I didn't know prior to monday before last and is one of the other reasons my "they couldn't have lost much!" position softened to "I have no freeking clue."
alpha125: gmaxwell: where did you find out abotu the automatic reissues?
gmaxwell: alpha125: from mtgox staff and magicaltux ... I had assumed previously that any reissues were manual via customer support but apparently it was just timed.
gmaxwell: you'll also note that they've kept increasing their fees and then even mad paying fees mandatory.
gmaxwell: This suggested to me that they totally misunderstood their problems. (and— I reported that I believed this months ago too)
gmaxwell: e.g. they noticed lots of txn getting stuck, they didn't understand it was because they were producing invalid txn (even though it was reported to them) and so they thought it was just 'full blocks'
gmaxwell: and they increased their fees from 0.0001 to 0.0005 — which was enough to may more than virtually every txn— and then later to 0.001 which is basically astronomic. And then they made it mandatory.
gmaxwell: of course their stalled txn had nothing to do with fees.

Edit: Just to clarify, only quoted relevant parts (maybe I should have inserted "[...]" where applicable). Full text here: http://pastebin.com/DaSph9uT

What a fucking mess. So this explains he silence. They literally might not know if they are solvent or not.

I still don't understand how this can go under the radar. Surely his accounting should output the amount of BTC that should be in the wallet. My company does that for the cash (EUR) funds it holds: it's standard practice to have accounting for that and you can compare (we do this regularly) what accounting says with the amount of cash actually in the coffer.

Did he assume the "stuck transactions" would just never go through (of course they wont because the inputs have been spent by the "sibling tx", but there's still the risk and the sane way to make sure they don't get confirmed later is an intentional double-spend to force the issue as nicely explained by Andreas in this video.

Of course these things are easy to say in hindsight and I kindof feel with magicaltux. On the other hand he could've just hired people to help him (also for the engine issues earlier last year and before that) to help run a clean shop.

JorgeStolfi

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

I am surprised that several people failed to see the "tiny" flaw in my "absolutely secure" cold storage recipe, and called me retard or something.

That post was meant to be just a stupid joke. Now I am wondering whether something like that may actually have happened at MtGOX.

They repeatedly stated that their clients' bitcoins were safe and that they had them. But they never said that they could move them out. On the contrary, they told the Australian guy that that would not be easy...

Grin

<--- take your pick.

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

Quote from: seldon on February 21, 2014, 05:56:52 AM

Quote from: F-bernanke on February 21, 2014, 05:53:05 AM

Quote from: gibbtek on February 21, 2014, 05:48:01 AM

Would it not be possible to track the stolen coins and find out what exchange and account was used to sell them?

Probably, if both exchanges cooperate. But if the thieves used Tumblers, it would be damn hard.

If they used malleability to withdraw coins from gox double, they should be verified with gox themselves anyways. If they didn't use fake ids that is..

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking. After magicaltux has fixed his shit, he should have these guys with negative balances in the system.

Davyd05

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: atleticofa on February 21, 2014, 06:43:31 AM

I'm fucking TIRED of MTGOX!!!

Declare bankruptcy, or accept withdrawals again. But do something!!!!

This uncertainty is fatal to Bitcoin and confidence of the people.

They are implementing a new tx system.. they don't want to repeat a mistake they've already committed in the past. I can only assume people would prefer them not to rush it and botch it.

This doesn't pose a risk to bitcoin...this just shows people to demand better service, I researched every exchange before choosing where to trade.

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