It would be trivial to prove he has the BTC. Why doesn't he do it?
Mark is saying its not trivial because of the intense security measures in place for the cold storage.
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29535. (Read 26609293 times)
February 18, 2014, 12:54:07 PM
Mark is saying its not trivial because of the intense security measures in place for the cold storage.
February 18, 2014, 12:51:41 PM
It would be trivial to prove he has the BTC. Why doesn't he do it?
An interesting question. I have to admit as much as think Gox is taking more heat than it deserves, the situation does look bad. Mark has come through in bad times before though, so I hold out hope.
February 18, 2014, 12:48:53 PM
+++++ 1
I strongly disagree with this statement. I'm not sure if you know how to code but in Computer Science you can't brute force yourself to innovation.
If that were true than Microsoft, Apple and Google would be the only successful tech companies and we all know that is not the truth and they buy small companies like crazy.
1 genius computer scientist can do more that 1000 good computer scientists. Did you even look at the Bitcoin code ? It is pretty light. You could write some 1000 lines of code that could change the world forever if you have the skill. And usually in IT, bigger teams are always worst that smaller teams. At least that is my point of view.
hahaha, kkapser's a blowhard ... he's not writing 1000 lines of anything except pure unadulterated FUD.
1) every communist regime known has had rampant monetary inflation
2) the most prosperous nation and period known in economic history is the free market capitalism under the deflationary gold standard period of the 1800's in USA.
Take a team of good 100 python coders and give them a year and there would be a coin that would surpass bitcoin in every quality aspect.
I strongly disagree with this statement. I'm not sure if you know how to code but in Computer Science you can't brute force yourself to innovation.
If that were true than Microsoft, Apple and Google would be the only successful tech companies and we all know that is not the truth and they buy small companies like crazy.
1 genius computer scientist can do more that 1000 good computer scientists. Did you even look at the Bitcoin code ? It is pretty light. You could write some 1000 lines of code that could change the world forever if you have the skill. And usually in IT, bigger teams are always worst that smaller teams. At least that is my point of view.
hahaha, kkapser's a blowhard ... he's not writing 1000 lines of anything except pure unadulterated FUD.
1) every communist regime known has had rampant monetary inflation
2) the most prosperous nation and period known in economic history is the free market capitalism under the deflationary gold standard period of the 1800's in USA.
yeah, the good ol´times...
February 18, 2014, 12:48:42 PM
I don't understand why Bitcoin ATMs are such a big deal. It's almost like a kiosk for paying a credit card bill or something. Why would I pay a ridiculous premium for something I can do for so much cheaper at my own home?
I imagine that not only do some folks not trust any exchange, there's often a bunch of time and paperwork involved to get one's account setup. ATM is seemingly less hassle. The palm print thing adds an interesting twist to it however...
February 18, 2014, 12:45:53 PM
I don't understand why Bitcoin ATMs are such a big deal. It's almost like a kiosk for paying a credit card bill or something. Why would I pay a ridiculous premium for something I can do for so much cheaper at my own home?
I imagine that not only do some folks not trust any exchange, there's often a bunch of time and paperwork involved to get one's account setup. ATM is seemingly less hassle. The palm print thing adds an interesting twist to it however...
February 18, 2014, 12:45:02 PM
Still massive dumps of Goxcoins, seems like people think they are worthless after all
as the poll indicates, clearly poeple have very little confidence they will resume withdrawals as promised.
are poeple trading gox on superior information or emotion... that is the question.
What i dont understand is why Gox isnt comuunicating clearly on the fact that they still have all the BTC from its customers.
It would be trivial to prove he has the BTC.
Why doesn't he do it?
February 18, 2014, 12:43:20 PM
+++++ 1
I strongly disagree with this statement. I'm not sure if you know how to code but in Computer Science you can't brute force yourself to innovation.
If that were true than Microsoft, Apple and Google would be the only successful tech companies and we all know that is not the truth and they buy small companies like crazy.
1 genius computer scientist can do more that 1000 good computer scientists. Did you even look at the Bitcoin code ? It is pretty light. You could write some 1000 lines of code that could change the world forever if you have the skill. And usually in IT, bigger teams are always worst that smaller teams. At least that is my point of view.
hahaha, kkapser's a blowhard ... he's not writing 1000 lines of anything except pure unadulterated FUD.
1) every communist regime known has had rampant monetary inflation
2) the most prosperous nation and period known in economic history is the free market capitalism under the deflationary gold standard period of the 1800's in USA.
Take a team of good 100 python coders and give them a year and there would be a coin that would surpass bitcoin in every quality aspect.
I strongly disagree with this statement. I'm not sure if you know how to code but in Computer Science you can't brute force yourself to innovation.
If that were true than Microsoft, Apple and Google would be the only successful tech companies and we all know that is not the truth and they buy small companies like crazy.
1 genius computer scientist can do more that 1000 good computer scientists. Did you even look at the Bitcoin code ? It is pretty light. You could write some 1000 lines of code that could change the world forever if you have the skill. And usually in IT, bigger teams are always worst that smaller teams. At least that is my point of view.
hahaha, kkapser's a blowhard ... he's not writing 1000 lines of anything except pure unadulterated FUD.
1) every communist regime known has had rampant monetary inflation
2) the most prosperous nation and period known in economic history is the free market capitalism under the deflationary gold standard period of the 1800's in USA.
February 18, 2014, 12:42:50 PM
Still massive dumps of Goxcoins, seems like people think they are worthless after all
as the poll indicates, clearly poeple have very little confidence they will resume withdrawals as promised.
are poeple trading gox on superior information or emotion... that is the question.
There is always profit to be made during volatility, whether the price is 600 or 200..... surely making money GOX, at the moment, will NOT amount to a hill of beans, if they do NOT resume withdrawals.
February 18, 2014, 12:40:15 PM
Is it possible to transfer USD between MtGox users?
It might be worth buying some MtGox USD (for real world BTC), converting to MtGox BTC and if all goes well and MtGox hasn't lost all the BTC, withdrawing the BTC at a later date.
Anyone brave enough?
Some people have been trying to buy Gox-bucks on the forum in the past few days. I'm not sure how they facilitate the trade, because I've never used MtGox, but some people like to live dangerously. It might be worth buying some MtGox USD (for real world BTC), converting to MtGox BTC and if all goes well and MtGox hasn't lost all the BTC, withdrawing the BTC at a later date.
Anyone brave enough?
February 18, 2014, 12:38:40 PM
I don't understand why Bitcoin ATMs are such a big deal. It's almost like a kiosk for paying a credit card bill or something. Why would I pay a ridiculous premium for something I can do for so much cheaper at my own home?
February 18, 2014, 12:37:42 PM
Is it possible to transfer USD between MtGox users?
It might be worth buying some MtGox USD (for real world BTC), converting to MtGox BTC and if all goes well and MtGox hasn't lost all the BTC, withdrawing the BTC at a later date.
Anyone brave enough?
It might be worth buying some MtGox USD (for real world BTC), converting to MtGox BTC and if all goes well and MtGox hasn't lost all the BTC, withdrawing the BTC at a later date.
Anyone brave enough?
February 18, 2014, 12:36:14 PM
Do you know what fees they will charge?
Likely outrageous like other Bitcoin ATMs. I imagine it'll stay this way (though to a lesser extent once the machines are ubiquitous) because the user is paying for convenience, just like the $2-$5 fee at a cash ATM.
Don't confuse Bitcoin's "nearly free" nature with the businesses surrounding it. A business wouldn't stay in business if it didn't make money. The market will decide if it wants Bitcoin ATMs enough to pay the fee.
If Canada is an example then the market appears to be OK with it. Last I read a coffee shop ("Waves" I think) ATM could barely keep stocked with Bitcoin even though the fee was high.
February 18, 2014, 12:28:22 PM
I may be using the wrong term... but deflationary, means exactly that the currency buys more with the passage of time compared with goods and services. So let's say a kid is born in 2020 and his parents invest 1 bitcoin into a stored wallet. At that point, the bitcoin is equal to the equivalence of $10,000 in today's dollars. Even if the value of the bitcoin goes up by 15% per year (which I believe is fairly modest), then in 20 years that bitcoin would be worth about $200,000 and in 30 years, $900K.
yea that's what I was referring to as well but the total number of bitcoin users will stabilise at some point and so will the price, if deflationary at all at that point it will be a very low % which won't be incentive enough to hold as an investment.
Certainly the rate of increase will NOT be flat... and You may be correct that potentially in the long term the rate would be lower than something like 5%...
February 18, 2014, 12:11:35 PM
i knew it -if i would read this thread long enough i would learn something.
there it is.
February 18, 2014, 12:10:36 PM
hodlers have balls of steel. 
This requires a Duke Nukem link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rAjily7rME
February 18, 2014, 12:06:31 PM
In the interest of saving forum space, I'll fit all the replies in one post.
nonsense. when a person wants to use the bitcoin protocol, he or she can just do so. it´s free. (almost) no fees. if i decide to buy some sneakers and pay with bitcoin, well yes, i have to take some of my money and convert it into bitcoin. but that money is just the price of the sneaker - not the price for bitcoin. i don´t have to pay a premium because i use bitcoin. it´s free.
Nah, it's not free. Service companies similar to bitpay, who take care of the conversion, have to pay the early adoptors for the privilege to use the "protocol". Everyone who has to hold their value in bitcoin have to pay tribute to the early adopters.
This is the pyramid scheme part that attracts those big herds of people who wish to get rich quick without doing any work. This hyperdeflation part is good for attracting simple minded folks with promises of easy riches, but it makes bitcoin useless as an serious financial tool.
The enthusiasts make it sound like they are all about financial liberty, while actually they are just hoping for wealth redistribution. They don't want to change the world in a way that there won't be a class of wealthy elite people who only enjoy luxury without doing much work. They even want to increase this mentality and only change the people who are at the top, so they themselves can be there.
It's too hard to lie to myself and pretend that all is fine. I'm not very good at comforting myself with false hopes made out of pretty illusions. I would be happy and calm if I would truly see that this will work. But I can't, no matter how much I try, I still see the ugly truth.
First mover advantage is the only thing that bitcoin has. The only reason why it's more expensive then the tens of other altcoins that have been created from the same source.
Rest doesn't mean much tho, because the development in bitcoin source is very slow and it's actually crippled by core properties like work-of-proof mining and 10 minute transaction times. You can only better the GUI and fix some bugs while you can't develop the core properties that actually need development the most.
Perhaps it seems that way but wealth can be stored in other means than cash. It does not neccessarily increase my consumption. Whether people 'save' in production should be a free choice to make, not a forced one.
And you can freely save up by buying necessary goods that hold value. Inflation doesn't stop you for doing that. Inflation only pushes you towards using your money on something, not just sitting on money.
Production isn't forced, but it's favored because it does increase it's countries economic strength. And economic strength is the thing that decides the survival of the fittest in the modern world.
Controlled and stable deflation system could also be used like the an stable and controlled inflation system. But the first country will always have less production then the last one.
But with bitcoin we are not talking about controlled and stable deflation, we are talking about inevitable uncontrollable hyperdeflation. And hyperdeflation is just as bad as hyperinflation, because the instability creates a lot of problems that will slow down the economy.
Broken window fallacy isn't exactly an outcome of an strong and growing economy, but it is caused by the corrupt public sector that I talked about.
When world leaders decide to wage wars to stimulate the economy, then the economy is not to be blamed here. You could also start huge scientific projects with goals to colonize other planets or discover new ways to extract energy. This would stimulate the economy just as well as starting wars.
But people are to blame here who elect weak and corrupt politicians who act on the orders of warmongers, not on recommendations of top scientists. To make it short, broken window fallacy is cased by the lack of proper vision.
I hope I didn't miss anyone..
nonsense. when a person wants to use the bitcoin protocol, he or she can just do so. it´s free. (almost) no fees. if i decide to buy some sneakers and pay with bitcoin, well yes, i have to take some of my money and convert it into bitcoin. but that money is just the price of the sneaker - not the price for bitcoin. i don´t have to pay a premium because i use bitcoin. it´s free.
Nah, it's not free. Service companies similar to bitpay, who take care of the conversion, have to pay the early adoptors for the privilege to use the "protocol". Everyone who has to hold their value in bitcoin have to pay tribute to the early adopters.
This is the pyramid scheme part that attracts those big herds of people who wish to get rich quick without doing any work. This hyperdeflation part is good for attracting simple minded folks with promises of easy riches, but it makes bitcoin useless as an serious financial tool.
The enthusiasts make it sound like they are all about financial liberty, while actually they are just hoping for wealth redistribution. They don't want to change the world in a way that there won't be a class of wealthy elite people who only enjoy luxury without doing much work. They even want to increase this mentality and only change the people who are at the top, so they themselves can be there.
don´t be bitter. be thankful you did find out about it. you are an early adopter. join us & be happy. 
It's too hard to lie to myself and pretend that all is fine. I'm not very good at comforting myself with false hopes made out of pretty illusions. I would be happy and calm if I would truly see that this will work. But I can't, no matter how much I try, I still see the ugly truth.
LOL. The concept of group dynamics and open source and first mover advantage is completely lost on this guy. He's got a lot of learning to do.
First mover advantage is the only thing that bitcoin has. The only reason why it's more expensive then the tens of other altcoins that have been created from the same source.
Rest doesn't mean much tho, because the development in bitcoin source is very slow and it's actually crippled by core properties like work-of-proof mining and 10 minute transaction times. You can only better the GUI and fix some bugs while you can't develop the core properties that actually need development the most.
Perhaps it seems that way but wealth can be stored in other means than cash. It does not neccessarily increase my consumption. Whether people 'save' in production should be a free choice to make, not a forced one.
And you can freely save up by buying necessary goods that hold value. Inflation doesn't stop you for doing that. Inflation only pushes you towards using your money on something, not just sitting on money.
Production isn't forced, but it's favored because it does increase it's countries economic strength. And economic strength is the thing that decides the survival of the fittest in the modern world.
Controlled and stable deflation system could also be used like the an stable and controlled inflation system. But the first country will always have less production then the last one.
But with bitcoin we are not talking about controlled and stable deflation, we are talking about inevitable uncontrollable hyperdeflation. And hyperdeflation is just as bad as hyperinflation, because the instability creates a lot of problems that will slow down the economy.
Broken window fallacy. Don't just know it, understand it. Then you might understand why production and consumption are not worthy goals in and of themselves.
Broken window fallacy isn't exactly an outcome of an strong and growing economy, but it is caused by the corrupt public sector that I talked about.
When world leaders decide to wage wars to stimulate the economy, then the economy is not to be blamed here. You could also start huge scientific projects with goals to colonize other planets or discover new ways to extract energy. This would stimulate the economy just as well as starting wars.
But people are to blame here who elect weak and corrupt politicians who act on the orders of warmongers, not on recommendations of top scientists. To make it short, broken window fallacy is cased by the lack of proper vision.
I hope I didn't miss anyone..
February 18, 2014, 12:05:47 PM
Oh shit, not the deflation problem again.
It's an Eternal September topic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
February 18, 2014, 11:58:00 AM
What i dont understand is why Gox isnt comunnicating clearly on the fact that they still have all the BTC from its customers.
Indeed, that should make people wonder, shouldn't it?
I put the chances for [ GOX resuming withdrawals etc. ] at 99% as the Mt. Gox people will be locked up if they don't deliver.
Bernard Madoff too knew that he would be locked up if he didn't deliver. Guess what?
Could it be that we'll soon witness the first definitive death of an altcoin -- the "MtGOX Bitcoin"?
February 18, 2014, 11:54:27 AM
ppl still heavily selling @260 on Gox, i think it might go down below 200 in we wont get some super positive news this week
Such idiots.
February 18, 2014, 11:50:04 AM
wish i were trading on Gox... people seem to have so much fun... much trading opportunities 
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