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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29959. (Read 26620164 times)

legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
If an exchange's outstanding obligations (the sum of its client's account balances, plus pending bills etc.) are more than its assets (furniture, cash in bank, and coins in wallet), why would anyone want to buy it?

Reputation (lol), contacts/customers and a platform that has been mostly proven and is up-and-running.

There may be buyers for their physical assets including computer hardware and software.  That may be worth a couple million US$ at most. However, no one will want to inherit their client accounts, since they are not assets but debts. I would guess that the sum of all account balances (coins and cash that they owe to their clients) is much more  than 100 million US$.  Do they have that much in their bank and wallet?

I have pennies in my account. If a credible operator took over, there would be tens of thousands in it. I am not alone by a long shot. We would be trading, generating commissions and fees. We only left because we had to. There is still a big demand for an exchange other than stamp that can handle big volume. it would be a tremendous opportunity for someone who could recapitalize Gox. Recapitalization will take only a few million. Gox could be a billion dollar company if the operator got his act together.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
so there is basically two options:

gox shuts down = sell sell sell
gox gets bought up = buy buy buy

either way they just seem to be buying time from now on.

hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
If an exchange's outstanding obligations (the sum of its client's account balances, plus pending bills etc.) are more than its assets (furniture, cash in bank, and coins in wallet), why would anyone want to buy it?

Reputation (lol), contacts/customers and a platform that has been mostly proven and is up-and-running.

There may be buyers for their physical assets including computer hardware and software.  That may be worth a couple million US$ at most. However, no one will want to inherit their client accounts, since they are not assets but debts. I would guess that the sum of all account balances (coins and cash that they owe to their clients) is much more  than 100 million US$.  Do they have that much in their bank and wallet?
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Seems like Huobi is on a different page than stamp and btc-e today
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 1748
Pray for a takeover
What would that mean?  

If an exchange's outstanding obligations (the sum of its client's account balances, plus pending bills etc.) are more than its assets (furniture, cash in bank, and coins in wallet), why would anyone want to buy it?


Tens of thousands of verified customers ready to trade

A Gox takeover that was credible would lift the market enormously - with the right timing it would be a steal.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 1748
Pray for a takeover
What would that mean?  

If an exchange's outstanding obligations (the sum of its client's account balances, plus pending bills etc.) are more than its assets (furniture, cash in bank, and coins in wallet), why would anyone want to buy it?

Same reason Hostess, Chrysler, or anybody else gets bought out. Brand awareness, the domain name, name recognition, technical talent (yeah, I know), the trade engine, existing licenses, merchantcontracts, contracts with other payment processors, etc. 

Agreed - it would be worth buying, better run it could get back on top - it's not impossible and certainly cheaper than launching afresh.

The only decision is whether to wait until they get it for nothing from an effective receivership situation and then spend to resurrect it, or negotiate while it's still functioning but with a guy who wants a fortune for the 'market leader' before it's tipping over...

It's easier to pick it up for free when the lights go out, but the damage may be worse...

I reckon they start negotiating as soon as possible and they are invited in so they can due a basic due diligence and see how bad it is and who key staff are - then wait until carpeles has no more cards to play and it's going up in flames to snatch it cheap and catch it just as it falls.

Nasty - but the cheapest solution.    I am sure sharks are circling.

I hope it is what happens - rather than what looks like it may be a total implosion.
hero member
Activity: 531
Merit: 501
Pray for a takeover
What would that mean?  

If an exchange's outstanding obligations (the sum of its client's account balances, plus pending bills etc.) are more than its assets (furniture, cash in bank, and coins in wallet), why would anyone want to buy it?


Tens of thousands of verified customers ready to trade
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
Pray for a takeover
What would that mean?  

If an exchange's outstanding obligations (the sum of its client's account balances, plus pending bills etc.) are more than its assets (furniture, cash in bank, and coins in wallet), why would anyone want to buy it?

Same reason Hostess, Chrysler, or anybody else gets bought out. Brand awareness, the domain name, name recognition, technical talent (yeah, I know), the trade engine, existing licenses, merchantcontracts, contracts with other payment processors, etc. 
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
Pray for a takeover
What would that mean?  

If an exchange's outstanding obligations (the sum of its client's account balances, plus pending bills etc.) are more than its assets (furniture, cash in bank, and coins in wallet), why would anyone want to buy it?


Reputation (lol), contacts/customers and a platform that has been mostly proven and is up-and-running.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
Pray for a takeover
What would that mean?  

If an exchange's outstanding obligations (the sum of its client's account balances, plus pending bills etc.) are more than its assets (furniture, cash in bank, and coins in wallet), why would anyone want to buy it?
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 1748
I see the spread is decreasing, .. lol are people willing to hold dem gox bux again?>

It's not that Gox bucks are getting any better... it's just Gox BTC becoming progressively worse. So the price of shitty Gox coins is decreasing when measured in shitty Gox dollars. Ironic, isn't it?

Correct. When the gox price falls to stamp price then the market will have priced in equal (snowball in hell) chance of extracting fiat or btc.

Yeah - but the run for the door will not be pretty - this will not be a small story if Gox melts down.

Pray for a takeover - or watch a little carnage, this is not good for Bitcoin - it's not going to be like Silk Road, it will cast doubts on the whole system and the bitcoin doomsters will love piling in to celebrate the stench of disrepute.

Krapeles is on the (already discredited) Bitcoin Foundation.

It's bad.   Takeover soon - or the spotlight we have on BTC might no longer see the sparkling future of Bitcoin for a long time to come.

It may turn and focus on the 'burst bubble' story and the 'seedy and unregulated' line, if it isn't sorted - it won't be pretty.  I hope some investors are in there trying to lever Mark out.    This WOULD be good news - I wonder where Loaded and his pals are right now...


Well, I mean you have to buy into btc, to transfer out.. which is still easier or more likely easier then fiat international withdrawals.

Actually that is the point - you can't get BTC out either now....  That's why it's looking like the last nail if it ain't fixed.

I don't mean to be a doom-sayer, but Gox was 'the big one' and now it has lost the plot.    I can't see how, with lower revenues and market share it will fix the problems while an exodus of confidence is draining its reserves.

There must be a tipping point, and it will go offline if it reaches it.  Click... and it's gone?  I wouldn't bet against it.  Really.

not everyone can't get btc out of gox, so my point is that almost nobody but those in Japan, really get fiat withdrawals at all. Which is what I was leaning towards in the statement that its still easier to get btc. The panic hasn't really shown yet regarding the btc backlog.

agreed the gox thing appears to be approaching a tipping point.

IMO - what's been happening is anyone with fiat has been buying coins in order to gradually ship them out.

Hence the massive spike in the spread between exchanges - it was pushing up to 200 Bux over the rest at one point.

Now this has been sliding down as more goes out than comes in.

The current trouble is because either because they couldn't cope (with a glitch exacerbating the problem), or they couldn't afford it - and it's an attempt to slow the lifeblood leaking away.

Any decently run large turnover company in the tech world (which Gox is) should not have a front page which STILL says:

"Important Reminder:  Due to the New Year holiday observed by Japanese financial institutions between December 29, 2013 and January 6, 2014, deposits and withdrawals are currently experiencing delays.  For withdrawals, your funds will be placed into your bank account once your transaction has been processed.

Please note that European transactions should not be affected by these delays"

I mean - come on....  January the 6th?
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
I see the spread is decreasing, .. lol are people willing to hold dem gox bux again?>

It's not that Gox bucks are getting any better... it's just Gox BTC becoming progressively worse. So the price of shitty Gox coins is decreasing when measured in shitty Gox dollars. Ironic, isn't it?

Correct. When the gox price falls to stamp price then the market will have priced in equal (snowball in hell) chance of extracting fiat or btc.

Yeah - but the run for the door will not be pretty - this will not be a small story if Gox melts down.

Pray for a takeover - or watch a little carnage, this is not good for Bitcoin - it's not going to be like Silk Road, it will cast doubts on the whole system and the bitcoin doomsters will love piling in to celebrate the stench of disrepute.

Krapeles is on the (already discredited) Bitcoin Foundation.

It's bad.   Takeover soon - or the spotlight we have on BTC might no longer see the sparkling future of Bitcoin for a long time to come.

It may turn and focus on the 'burst bubble' story and the 'seedy and unregulated' line, if it isn't sorted - it won't be pretty.  I hope some investors are in there trying to lever Mark out.    This WOULD be good news - I wonder where Loaded and his pals are right now...


Well, I mean you have to buy into btc, to transfer out.. which is still easier or more likely easier then fiat international withdrawals.

Actually that is the point - you can't get BTC out either now....  That's why it's looking like the last nail if it ain't fixed.

I don't mean to be a doom-sayer, but Gox was 'the big one' and now it has lost the plot.    I can't see how, with lower revenues and market share it will fix the problems while an exodus of confidence is draining its reserves.

There must be a tipping point, and it will go offline if it reaches it.  Click... and it's gone?  I wouldn't bet against it.  Really.

not everyone can't get btc out of gox, so my point is that almost nobody but those in Japan, really get fiat withdrawals at all. Which is what I was leaning towards in the statement that its still easier to get btc. The panic hasn't really shown yet regarding the btc backlog.

agreed the gox thing appears to be approaching a tipping point.
legendary
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1028
Duelbits.com
This CoinDesk article

http://www.coindesk.com/poll-mt-gox-withdrawal-issues/

says that

Quote
(Mt.GOX) then posted an update saying that large bitcoin withdrawals may have been “stuck”, but that it had resolved the problem by refunding the affected accounts.

Isn't that the same as saying "we did not send those BTC, and we have no plans to do so"?


They have refunded mine for 10.89 BTC withdrawal that was nowhere for 8 days, I just tried to withdraw half of that, it was some 10 minutes ago and it's still not in blockchain.

Looks like another period of waiting for my BTC is in front of me.

Did another one for 1 BTC and still none in Blockchain. So it looks that they refund meant f'all for me.

Try a ticket - they get around to them in 3-5 days at the moment.   Maybe my withdrawals were smaller - but they all went through once the ticket was 'allocated'.  

But I never got refund - I think smaller withdrawals (which is all I dare to risk) just get stuck until someone digs them out.

I went down to pulling 0.5 BTC at a time, but one of those got lost too (then found when I posted a support ticket).  Went for it with 1.4 today - as I am nearly all out now - but sure enough, lost again.

It's pretty bad....



I've sent tickets. 2 for previous stuck and third now.

I've said them Mark can send me my BTC from his cold storage or whatever else but just to send my damn BTC.
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 1748
I see the spread is decreasing, .. lol are people willing to hold dem gox bux again?>

It's not that Gox bucks are getting any better... it's just Gox BTC becoming progressively worse. So the price of shitty Gox coins is decreasing when measured in shitty Gox dollars. Ironic, isn't it?

Correct. When the gox price falls to stamp price then the market will have priced in equal (snowball in hell) chance of extracting fiat or btc.

Yeah - but the run for the door will not be pretty - this will not be a small story if Gox melts down.

Pray for a takeover - or watch a little carnage, this is not good for Bitcoin - it's not going to be like Silk Road, it will cast doubts on the whole system and the bitcoin doomsters will love piling in to celebrate the stench of disrepute.

Krapeles is on the (already discredited) Bitcoin Foundation.

It's bad.   Takeover soon - or the spotlight we have on BTC might no longer see the sparkling future of Bitcoin for a long time to come.

It may turn and focus on the 'burst bubble' story and the 'seedy and unregulated' line, if it isn't sorted - it won't be pretty.  I hope some investors are in there trying to lever Mark out.    This WOULD be good news - I wonder where Loaded and his pals are right now...


Well, I mean you have to buy into btc, to transfer out.. which is still easier or more likely easier then fiat international withdrawals.

Actually that is the point - you can't get BTC out either now....  That's why it's looking like the last nail if it ain't fixed.

I don't mean to be a doom-sayer, but Gox was 'the big one' and now it has lost the plot.    I can't see how, with lower revenues and market share it will fix the problems while an exodus of confidence is draining its reserves.

There must be a tipping point, and it will go offline if it reaches it.  Click... and it's gone?  I wouldn't bet against it.  Really.
legendary
Activity: 4200
Merit: 4887
You're never too old to think young.
these my friend are "la creme de la creme"

One of the top rated speakers manufactured in the world currently, and will set you back a couple of hundred grand.

Oops. I guess I'm a little out of the loop.

I'm still using ancient 20th century Klipsch.  Smiley
__

That's my absolute last speaker post in this thread. Back to BTC, as quiet as it may be.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
Bad scenario is if Stamp buys out Gox, bringing back the single point of failure risk. Circle.com has some heavy hitters behind it. I'd like to see a buy out that puts a big exchange in NYC just in time for the next round of counterfeiting by the Fed.

+1
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
Bad scenario is if Stamp buys out Gox, bringing back the single point of failure risk. Circle.com has some heavy hitters behind it. I'd like to see a buy out that puts a big exchange in NYC just in time for the next round of counterfeiting by the Fed.
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 1748
But each to their own, I guess - maybe I spent too long liking music, rather than gear
Amen. I spent decades as a professional musician. The music always comes first.

Quote
Aaaand... back to Bitcoin before we get flamed, eh?

If it wasn't so grindingly dull right now I wouldn't have replied - we are in danger of trolls and chartbuddy being the only posts here!

Right on. The only reason I replied to the original speaker post was to point out the fact that it was off-topic.

Cheers.

I know - no worries Smiley
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