real big spreads between bids and asks, especially on mtgox. does this indicate anything?
I think it means gox is dying as an exchange due to continued incompetence. I don't believe you can really extrapolate anything onto bitcoin itself from it.
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 31156. (Read 26723809 times)
December 14, 2013, 07:35:01 PM
I think it means gox is dying as an exchange due to continued incompetence. I don't believe you can really extrapolate anything onto bitcoin itself from it.
December 14, 2013, 07:32:46 PM
real big spreads between bids and asks, especially on mtgox. does this indicate anything?
December 14, 2013, 07:28:23 PM
Surprised there's not more on, this is decision point.
Trading volume seems to be decreasing (15,000 BTC daily at MtGox/USD and Bitstamp/USD) , and most of it seems to be speculative rather than commercial.At MtGox the price seems to be jumping up and down by 10 USD, more than once per minute, but on very small volume; while most bid/ask orders are still. Is that attempts to drive the price across the bid/ask gap? Or to "jog" it so that the charts are not all red?
December 14, 2013, 07:22:21 PM
Why would they do it that piecewise, rather than all at once?
It is more secure to do it this way [... if] something goes terribly wrong on this 10 BTC transfer, they could potentially lose 40,000 BTC, not just the 10 BTC they were trying to spend. 
December 14, 2013, 07:09:05 PM
The FBI was somehow able to get DPR's private keys for at least part of his stash. The FBI moved these coins to an address they control with a series of 324BTC transfers (324 = FBI on telephone keypad). So they already have the private keys needed to auction the coins off.
Why would they do it that piecewise, rather than all at once?
Two reasons:
1. Fanfare (324 = FBI)
2. It is more secure to do it this way (and this shows that the FBI had a competent bitcoin consultant helping them). Say the FBI sent 40,000 BTC to an address that they control with a single transaction. This means that a single 40,000 BTC coin is sitting in the FBI's new address. Now imagine they want to move 10 BTC to a different address. Well, they will have to "spend" the *entire* 40,000 BTC coin, send 10 BTC to where they want, and issue the remaining 39,990 BTC back to their own address or to a new change address. What this means is that in the *extremely unlikely* event that something goes terribly wrong on this 10 BTC transfer, they could potentially lose 40,000 BTC, not just the 10 BTC they were trying to spend.
If your address contains a bunch of smaller coins, the most you could lose to some *extremely unlikely* "bit flip" or other error, would be the full value of the coin you used as the input to the transaction. For this reason, I always transfer coins to paper wallets with a series of smaller transactions rather than a single large transaction.
December 14, 2013, 07:07:15 PM
like watching paint dry
December 14, 2013, 07:01:05 PM
The FBI was somehow able to get DPR's private keys for at least part of his stash. The FBI moved these coins to an address they control with a series of 324BTC transfers (324 = FBI on telephone keypad). So they already have the private keys needed to auction the coins off.
Why would they do it that piecewise, rather than all at once?
how is this different than auctioning off rare art or expensive cars that were proceeds of crime?
I don't know.
Suppose that instead of bitcoins he had the money deposited as Swiss francs in a Swiss bank account, and the FBI got hold of the bank account number and password. Could they just transfer the francs to another account in the same bank and auction them, or convert them to USD?
Or suppose that he had placed a large bet on the outcome of World Soccer Cup 2018. Would the FBI auction his betting ticket?
As someone has already posted they'll most likely just auction it off. It'd be very interesting to see what price it'll go for. And probably in one big transaction
The Bitcoin foundation should lobby for it to be sold in smaller tranches to not allow a huge manipulation of the market.
They should give them to those miners who were screwed over by Butterfly Lab's inability to ship on time
(me, bitter? never!!)
December 14, 2013, 06:51:19 PM
The FBI was somehow able to get DPR's private keys for at least part of his stash. The FBI moved these coins to an address they control with a series of 324BTC transfers (324 = FBI on telephone keypad). So they already have the private keys needed to auction the coins off.
Why would they do it that piecewise, rather than all at once?
how is this different than auctioning off rare art or expensive cars that were proceeds of crime?
I don't know.
Suppose that instead of bitcoins he had the money deposited as Swiss francs in a Swiss bank account, and the FBI got hold of the bank account number and password. Could they just transfer the francs to another account in the same bank and auction them, or convert them to USD?
Or suppose that he had placed a large bet on the outcome of World Soccer Cup 2018. Would the FBI auction his betting ticket?
As someone has already posted they'll most likely just auction it off. It'd be very interesting to see what price it'll go for. And probably in one big transaction
The Bitcoin foundation should lobby for it to be sold in smaller tranches to not allow a huge manipulation of the market.
December 14, 2013, 06:48:40 PM
The FBI was somehow able to get DPR's private keys for at least part of his stash. The FBI moved these coins to an address they control with a series of 324BTC transfers (324 = FBI on telephone keypad). So they already have the private keys needed to auction the coins off.
Why would they do it that piecewise, rather than all at once?
how is this different than auctioning off rare art or expensive cars that were proceeds of crime?
I don't know.
Suppose that instead of bitcoins he had the money deposited as Swiss francs in a Swiss bank account, and the FBI got hold of the bank account number and password. Could they just transfer the francs to another account in the same bank and auction them, or convert them to USD?
Or suppose that he had placed a large bet on the outcome of World Soccer Cup 2018. Would the FBI auction his betting ticket?
As someone has already posted they'll most likely just auction it off. It'd be very interesting to see what price it'll go for. And probably in one big transaction
December 14, 2013, 06:47:04 PM
I assumed someone had made some sort of 'arb-bot' across the three, but it makes sense there was some sort of inter-exchange co-operation. maybe it was a dry run, but it is effectively a currency price control 'peg' and will fail if big money wants to bust it. Perhaps the idea is to prevent one exchange being singled out for a move, spreading the load - do the exchanges trust each other enough to agree...?
Whenever there's the will, there's an action... I know about urm...
11,020,102,425 USD
or 7,716,496,363 EUR
or 32,126,811,250 PLN
or 6,730,991,273 GBP
OR 12,122,975 BTC for them to agree on a common purpose.
You are leaving out greed and what is in game theory known as 'the prisoner's dilemma' - why would the Russian-based Btc-e trust Mark at Gox to not act in his own best interests in spite of any 'agreement' that is in all their best interests IF it holds?
Once the market gets volatile - it always will get to the point when 'each to their own' at some point. Self-interest in markets always prevails in the end.
All fractional banking-style banks cannot withstand a run, so if everyone acts rationally - and does not join a collective demand for their money back, all will be fine (in theory).
But runs on banks only pay the first in the queue, so everyone wants to be first. Exchange co-operation will be ok in smooth waters, but not in calamitous times - ask Mr. Soros?
I watch with interest - but it's a Darwinian and (relatively) unregulated market - so I think it's 'no prisoners' if it comes to crisis point.
December 14, 2013, 06:46:26 PM
The FBI was somehow able to get DPR's private keys for at least part of his stash. The FBI moved these coins to an address they control with a series of 324BTC transfers (324 = FBI on telephone keypad). So they already have the private keys needed to auction the coins off.
Why would they do it that piecewise, rather than all at once?
how is this different than auctioning off rare art or expensive cars that were proceeds of crime?
I don't know.
Suppose that instead of bitcoins he had the money deposited as Swiss francs in a Swiss bank account, and the FBI got hold of the bank account number and password. Could they just transfer the francs to another account in the same bank and auction them, or convert them to USD?
Or suppose that he had placed a large bet on the outcome of World Soccer Cup 2018. Would the FBI auction his betting ticket?
December 14, 2013, 06:25:28 PM
I love this stability, so I am going 50/50 again for the night.
Good night, everyone.
Europe over and out.
Good night, everyone.
Europe over and out.
goodnight sir
December 14, 2013, 06:22:32 PM
Good grief. My question is if bitcoin doesn't go down today then will it go down at all short term?
I mean, these are ridicously bearish conditions, holidays, weekend, huge price run up, bearish triangles, mounting asks.
What's it going to take to tame this beast?
All of us are bearish right now very short term but the down trend is a trickle. What is going on bears?
You're letting us down!!!
I mean, these are ridicously bearish conditions, holidays, weekend, huge price run up, bearish triangles, mounting asks.
What's it going to take to tame this beast?
All of us are bearish right now very short term but the down trend is a trickle. What is going on bears?
You're letting us down!!!I'm 100% BTC
Bitcoin just laughs and continues its journey to transform the whole world as we know it 
EDIT. okay i'm high again
high on bitcoin? lol
Aren't we all??
yes
December 14, 2013, 06:22:01 PM
I love this stability, so I am going 50/50 again for the night.
Good night, everyone.
Europe over and out.
Good night, everyone.
Europe over and out.
December 14, 2013, 06:20:14 PM
Good grief. My question is if bitcoin doesn't go down today then will it go down at all short term?
I mean, these are ridicously bearish conditions, holidays, weekend, huge price run up, bearish triangles, mounting asks.
What's it going to take to tame this beast?
All of us are bearish right now very short term but the down trend is a trickle. What is going on bears? You're letting us down!!!
I mean, these are ridicously bearish conditions, holidays, weekend, huge price run up, bearish triangles, mounting asks.
What's it going to take to tame this beast?
All of us are bearish right now very short term but the down trend is a trickle. What is going on bears?
You're letting us down!!!I'm 100% BTC
Bitcoin just laughs and continues its journey to transform the whole world as we know it EDIT. okay i'm high again
high on bitcoin? lol
who needs drugs when you have bitcoin
December 14, 2013, 06:19:48 PM
Good grief. My question is if bitcoin doesn't go down today then will it go down at all short term?
I mean, these are ridicously bearish conditions, holidays, weekend, huge price run up, bearish triangles, mounting asks.
What's it going to take to tame this beast?
All of us are bearish right now very short term but the down trend is a trickle. What is going on bears? You're letting us down!!!
I mean, these are ridicously bearish conditions, holidays, weekend, huge price run up, bearish triangles, mounting asks.
What's it going to take to tame this beast?
All of us are bearish right now very short term but the down trend is a trickle. What is going on bears?
You're letting us down!!!I'm 100% BTC
Bitcoin just laughs and continues its journey to transform the whole world as we know it EDIT. okay i'm high again
high on bitcoin? lol
Aren't we all??
December 14, 2013, 06:18:34 PM
Good grief. My question is if bitcoin doesn't go down today then will it go down at all short term?
I mean, these are ridicously bearish conditions, holidays, weekend, huge price run up, bearish triangles, mounting asks.
What's it going to take to tame this beast?
All of us are bearish right now very short term but the down trend is a trickle. What is going on bears? You're letting us down!!!
I mean, these are ridicously bearish conditions, holidays, weekend, huge price run up, bearish triangles, mounting asks.
What's it going to take to tame this beast?
All of us are bearish right now very short term but the down trend is a trickle. What is going on bears?
You're letting us down!!!I'm 100% BTC
Bitcoin just laughs and continues its journey to transform the whole world as we know it EDIT. okay i'm high again
high on bitcoin? lol
December 14, 2013, 06:16:56 PM
The FBI will sell the coins [seized from Silk Road] at auction. If the auction is well advertised and set-up in a reasonable way, I expect the coins to sell for *above* market price.
Wouldn't there be bureaucratic hurdles in that? Have there been auctions of similarly immaterial property before? (Say, author rights, real estate on the Moon, club membership rights, etc?)
I wonder how they will do it, exactly? They will need the current owners' private keys, right?
The FBI was somehow able to get DPR's private keys for at least part of his stash. The FBI moved these coins to an address they control with a series of 324BTC transfers (324 = FBI on telephone keypad). So they already have the private keys needed to auction the coins off.
As for your other question about bureaucratic hurdles, I really don't know: maybe it will be more complicated than I think. But, really, how is this different than auctioning off rare art or expensive cars that were proceeds of crime?
December 14, 2013, 06:13:56 PM
I assumed someone had made some sort of 'arb-bot' across the three, but it makes sense there was some sort of inter-exchange co-operation. maybe it was a dry run, but it is effectively a currency price control 'peg' and will fail if big money wants to bust it. Perhaps the idea is to prevent one exchange being singled out for a move, spreading the load - do the exchanges trust each other enough to agree...?
Whenever there's the will, there's an action... I know about urm...
11,020,102,425 USD
or 7,716,496,363 EUR
or 32,126,811,250 PLN
or 6,730,991,273 GBP
OR 12,122,975 BTC for them to agree on a common purpose.
But; as I always say; I'm a known conspiracy theorist... And a long time LONG! (on BTC of-course...)
December 14, 2013, 06:08:14 PM
The FBI will sell the coins [seized from Silk Road] at auction. If the auction is well advertised and set-up in a reasonable way, I expect the coins to sell for *above* market price.
Wouldn't there be bureaucratic hurdles in that? Have there been auctions of similarly immaterial property before? (Say, author rights, real estate on the Moon, club membership rights, etc?)
I wonder how they will do it, exactly? They will need the current owners' private keys, right?
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