Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 6252.

Torque

legendary

Activity: 3794

Merit: 5474

Quote from: 600watt on January 23, 2021, 06:03:35 AM

Quote from: wavessurfing on January 22, 2021, 03:56:18 PM

may we change the unit ?

https://twitter.com/PeterSchiff/status/1352625339944607744

The idea that Bitcoin is scarce as there's only 21 million is nonsense.

One #Bitcoin merely represents an arbitrary quantity of 100 million Satoshis.

So, it's the total number of Satoshis that must be considered. With a supply of 2.1 quadrillion Satoshis are anything but scarce!

man, is this schiff guy such a dim light? look at a kilogram of gold. that is 1000g of gold.

1 gram of gold is 1000000000 ng

1000gram of gold is 1000000000000 ng which is one trillion nanograms. one trillion ng is anything but scarce! Cheesy

do we really need to discuss with guys that full blown stupid?

divide a pizza 1 trillion times and feed the world forever with it? jeez... Roll Eyes

Peter Schiff knows what he said is complete nonsense. He's just gaslighting, as usual.

I'm sure his next tweet will be something like "Why would anyone want to wait 10 whole minutes to have a Bitcoin transaction verified?? I can hand someone a gold coin in mere seconds!" Roll Eyes

hv_

legendary

Activity: 2548

Merit: 1055

Clean Code and Scale

Quote from: Sayeds56 on January 23, 2021, 07:50:18 AM

Quote from: El duderino_ on January 23, 2021, 07:26:04 AM

The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.

Albert Einstein

Backed by honest and incentivized miners doing all that math for you, cause you pay for

El duderino_

legendary

Activity: 2744

Merit: 13618

BTC + Crossfit, living life.

https://twitter.com/themooncarl/status/1353008340570427392?s=21

jojo69

legendary

Activity: 3388

Merit: 4775

diamond-handed zealot

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 07:41:59 AM

Quote from: 600watt on January 23, 2021, 06:29:03 AM

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 05:58:24 AM

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

JimboToronto

legendary

Activity: 4242

Merit: 5039

You're never too old to think young.

Good morning Bitcoinland.

Still stuck in the $3xxxx range... currently $30000USD/$41002CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

Ho hum.

Quote from: Krubster on January 23, 2021, 08:59:20 AM

I see Craig Wright aka Faketoshi once again made the news. This time for suing bitcoin.org for hosting the white paper. What an idiot.

Another failed attempt by Faketoshi to steal bitcoin.

xhomerx10

legendary

Activity: 3808

Merit: 7912

Quote from: Krubster on January 23, 2021, 08:59:20 AM

I see Craig Wright aka Faketoshi once again made the news. This time for suing bitcoin.org for hosting the white paper. What an idiot.

Another failed attempt by Faketoshi to steal bitcoin.

(I'm not the creator of the Mall Cop part, but I though it added an extra dimension to the picture Cheesy

)

I laughed quite a bit watching Mall Cop but I wouldn't want to see those Bitcoinists who are working to stop Faketoshi associated with Paul Blart's character in the movie.

becoin

legendary

Activity: 3431

Merit: 1233

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 04:59:25 AM

Ignoring a lot of interesting and potentially disruptive development in the altcoin space is short sighted.

You don't understand what money means! Money is the most important social contract in a society. If most of the members of that society say the name of this contract is Bitcoin then that's it! It will last as long as this contract is not broken and it may last for ages. Technicalities simply doesn't matter because technology to enforce the contract may change but contract doesn't!

rolling

hero member

Activity: 824

Merit: 712

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 07:41:59 AM

Quote from: 600watt on January 23, 2021, 06:29:03 AM

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 05:58:24 AM

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

We really need a demerit system on here. Some statements are just so wrong, they need to be demerited.

People keep conflating the usefulness of an alt app with the monetary value of the app. Blockchain is a useful tech in some cases but it has nothing to do with digital value. BTC is digital value, not blockchain.

Just because an app is useful doesn't mean it needs to capture monetary value in its token. It can work just fine without a token, with a plain database, or with a token of nominal value. BTC is value itself so the usefulness of BTC necessarily means that it captures monetary value as it becomes more and more useful. This is not true of any other alt, app, token or database.

The war was fought and BTC won. There is only one value capture coin. The winner has been crowned. There will never be another. Investing in alts means missing out on BTC.

Krubster

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 889

I see Craig Wright aka Faketoshi once again made the news. This time for suing bitcoin.org for hosting the white paper. What an idiot.

Another failed attempt by Faketoshi to steal bitcoin.

(I'm not the creator of the Mall Cop part, but I though it added an extra dimension to the picture Cheesy

)

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4354

Merit: 9201

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: 600watt on January 23, 2021, 07:31:48 AM

Quote from: Wekkel on January 23, 2021, 07:05:00 AM

I guess the innovation in ‘shitcoins’, not meaning the true shitcoins, is about solving the Trilemma of

Security
Scalabilty
Decentralosation

The ‘Trilemma’ is that you can’t have all three Roll Eyes

Various projects boast higher TPS (mostly in relation to Ethereum; Bitcoin’s position as King and/or store of value is hardly attacked in those convos) but when scrutinising, without solving the Trilemma.

I know of one project truly claiming that they have solved the Trilemma: Radix. But they’ve been at it for 7 years and haven’t released a mainnet yet. But if they indeed have solved the Trillemma, you can’t afford not to be in it. Time will tell.

Those kinds of projects are interesting from a technical perspective. But that’s probably 0.001% of the projects out there.

i am not saying there should not be any honest scientific research into this new tech field. but the idea that every little brain fart should and could get monetized by getting it on coinmarketcap is stupid to an almost criminal extend.

that a market was created for bitcoin was a necessity for price discovery and also for distribution of the protocol. to copy and paste the source code of btc and then go on and copy and paste this idea of a market is the original sin of shitcoinery. those 8500 different markets for projects that have not achieved digital scarcity should not exist. coinmarketcap has single handedly ruined more retailers than the 1929 stock market crash.

those projects should run on public testnets. they should not be sellable. this is evil. they have no value since they are not scarce or decentralized.
they are mere airline miles: data entries on centralized servers. only digital scarcity is what gives digital value. the rest is digital scam art.

edit: of course it is not only coinmarketcap. almost all the exchanges are doing it. they create this mirage of competing projects. but they are not competing with bitcoin. not the same thing at all. is pyrite competing with gold? would precious metal marketplaces quote prices for pyrite? for forged gold? that would be a joke. but this joke goes on in the "crypto" space but no one is laughing. (except for the creators of those shitcoin scams: they laugh all the way to the bank.

This is very close to accurate. All pos don't belong on coinmarketcap as they are simply a 'junk' bond.

No coins that use sha-256 algorithm are any good other than BTC

But and it is a small but, some coins on different algorithms such as LTC + DOGE have some function.

ETH actually has some function but is rapidly in danger of become the single largest crypto coin disaster of all time. 1 master of a coin = bad

Last I looked there were more than 1000 coins on coin market cap I would be hard pressed to find a real value for 30 of them.

600watt

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 2106

Quote from: AlcoHoDL on January 23, 2021, 08:23:33 AM

New development and innovation will be added to the existing Bitcoin network backbone as 2nd-layer add-ons (LN is one such example and there are, and will be, others). Bitcoin is currently a huge decentralized network, the size of which the world has never seen before. It is by far the fastest computational entity currently in existence on earth. This achievement is not easy to replicate. Apart from its vast size, it possesses features no other network of its kind possesses. Bitcoin is decentralized, trustless, immutable, borderless, scalable, super-hardened, super-robust, deflationary, scarce, not owned by any specific entity. It's all of the above and more. All at the same time. These are not blockchain properties, they are Bitcoin properties.

Just as new, innovative internet technologies are added on top of the tried, tested and robust TCP/IP layer, so will new, innovative technologies be added on top of the Bitcoin network backbone. There's no need to reinvent the wheel when the wheel is the optimal strategy. There are 100s of car brands, but their products all use wheels, because anything else is sub-optimal. Bitcoin is the "wheel" of the digital monetary revolution, and it will be used for decades to come. We, as Bitcoin HoDLers, are now tapping on the fundamental building block of a monetary instrument that will shake the foundations of the world's financial and wealth infrastructure. The avalanche has started, it's getting bigger, and it's unstoppable.

If anyone thinks an altcoin can easily replace all of the above, he is deluded. It's just a matter of time. You can either understand the tech, realise its potential and embrace it, or wait until you are forced to do so. It's up to you.

very well said! impressive.

wait, did you just compare bitcoin with ...the internet? Cheesy

Wekkel

legendary

Activity: 3122

Merit: 1538

yes

I am not trying to discuss Radix here. But if a project solves the Trilemma, everyone wants to get its hands on it. I am counting on that.

Cryptotourist

hero member

Activity: 1204

Merit: 755

Homo Sapiens Bitcoinerthalensis

Quote from: Wekkel on January 23, 2021, 07:05:00 AM

I guess the innovation in ‘shitcoins’, not meaning the true shitcoins, is about solving the Trilemma of

Security
Scalabilty
Decentralosation

The ‘Trilemma’ is that you can’t have all three Roll Eyes

Various projects boast higher TPS (mostly in relation to Ethereum; Bitcoin’s position as King and/or store of value is hardly attacked in those convos) but when scrutinising, without solving the Trilemma.

I know of one project truly claiming that they have solved the Trilemma: Radix. But they’ve been at it for 7 years and haven’t released a mainnet yet. But if they indeed have solved the Trillemma, you can’t afford not to be in it. Time will tell.

Those kinds of projects are interesting from a technical perspective. But that’s probably 0.001% of the projects out there.

I'm sorry bud, no, just NO.
It's an ETH based DeFi shitholecoin. This cannot be the 0.001% contribution.

600watt

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 2106

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 08:22:19 AM

Quote from: 600watt on January 23, 2021, 08:12:57 AM

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 07:41:59 AM

Quote from: 600watt on January 23, 2021, 06:29:03 AM

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 05:58:24 AM

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

with all respect, you did bring some arguments why one could disagree on the comparison of the internet protocol with the bitcoin protocol, but nothing that screams "deeply flawed"

the internet is a protocol to exchange information between participants, permissionless, open access software development, lots of open source. all the tricks that the internet is capable today are rooted in the mere storage and exchange of information. a very mighty protocol.

bitcoin is a protocol to exchange monetary value peer2peer, permissionless, open access software development, open source. all the tricks that the bitcoin network is capable today are rooted in the mere storage and exchange of value. a very mighty protocol.

both are network protocols. my question remains: where is my comparison "deeply flawed"?

Thank you for the discussion so far. I'll leave it here as I don't intend to upset people on this thread, and despite constant off-topic in here (I'm F5 addict to this thread, but very rarely speak) this subject is like a stick in a hornet nest to some - without disrespect - Bitcoin fundamentalists.
Let's get back on the wall watching.

also thank you. but i dont think it is off topic at all to discuss the extend of comparison between internet protocol and bitcoin protocol. i was expecting to learn something from you. other than saying that one cant buy parts of the internet you did not really say anything. i mean sure both projects have different historical backgrounds, but if that would be an argument for a "deeply flawed" comparison, than comparing stuff would become really difficult, since most different things have a different history.

AlcoHoDL

legendary

Activity: 2590

Merit: 4839

Addicted to HoDLing!

New development and innovation will be added to the existing Bitcoin network backbone as 2nd-layer add-ons (LN is one such example and there are, and will be, others). Bitcoin is currently a huge decentralized network, the size of which the world has never seen before. It is by far the fastest computational entity currently in existence on earth. This achievement is not easy to replicate. Apart from its vast size, it possesses features no other network of its kind possesses. Bitcoin is decentralized, trustless, immutable, borderless, scalable, super-hardened, super-robust, deflationary, scarce, not owned by any specific entity. It's all of the above and more. All at the same time. These are not blockchain properties, they are Bitcoin properties.

Just as new, innovative internet technologies are added on top of the tried, tested and robust TCP/IP layer, so will new, innovative technologies be added on top of the Bitcoin network backbone. There's no need to reinvent the wheel when the wheel is the optimal strategy. There are 100s of car brands, but their products all use wheels, because anything else is sub-optimal. Bitcoin is the "wheel" of the digital monetary revolution, and it will be used for decades to come. We, as Bitcoin HoDLers, are now tapping on the fundamental building block of a monetary instrument that will shake the foundations of the world's financial and wealth infrastructure. The avalanche has started, it's getting bigger, and it's unstoppable.

If anyone thinks an altcoin can easily replace all of the above, he is deluded. It's just a matter of time. You can either understand the tech, realise its potential and embrace it, or wait until you are forced to do so. It's up to you.

luke997

full member

Activity: 294

Merit: 100

Quote from: 600watt on January 23, 2021, 08:12:57 AM

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 07:41:59 AM

Quote from: 600watt on January 23, 2021, 06:29:03 AM

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 05:58:24 AM

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

with all respect, you did bring some arguments why one could disagree on the comparison of the internet protocol with the bitcoin protocol, but nothing that screams "deeply flawed"

the internet is a protocol to exchange information between participants, permissionless, open access software development, lots of open source. all the tricks that the internet is capable today are rooted in the mere storage and exchange of information. a very mighty protocol.

bitcoin is a protocol to exchange monetary value peer2peer, permissionless, open access software development, open source. all the tricks that the bitcoin network is capable today are rooted in the mere storage and exchange of value. a very mighty protocol.

both are network protocols. my question remains: where is my comparison "deeply flawed"?

Thank you for the discussion so far. I'll leave it here as I don't intend to upset people on this thread, and despite constant off-topic in here (I'm F5 addict to this thread, but very rarely speak) this subject is like a stick in a hornet nest to some - without disrespect - Bitcoin fundamentalists.
Let's get back on the wall watching.

600watt

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 2106

you f*** just cant stop posting shitcoinery in here.

*** OFF YOU ****

Cheesy

qwizzie

legendary

Activity: 2548

Merit: 1245

Source : https://www.blockchaincenter.net/altcoin-season-index/

Looks like Bitcoin Season has ended.

600watt

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 2106

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 07:41:59 AM

Quote from: 600watt on January 23, 2021, 06:29:03 AM

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 05:58:24 AM

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

with all respect, you did bring some arguments why one could disagree on the comparison of the internet protocol with the bitcoin protocol, but nothing that screams "deeply flawed"

the internet is a protocol to exchange information between participants, permissionless, open access software development, lots of open source. all the tricks that the internet is capable today are rooted in the mere storage and exchange of information. a very mighty protocol.

bitcoin is a protocol to exchange monetary value peer2peer, permissionless, open access software development, open source. all the tricks that the bitcoin network is capable today are rooted in the mere storage and exchange of value. a very mighty protocol.

both are network protocols. my question remains: where is my comparison "deeply flawed"?

edit: the only non semantic argument you are presenting is that it is not an asset one can buy. but the asset you can buy regarding bitcoin is not the protocol itself. you can buy the tokens (well ok, UTXO´s...) that can be channeled through that protocol. but hey, that is so obvious that i really don't think it is what justifies "deeply flawed" it is actually the only thing that does not compare exactly.

bitcoinPsycho

legendary

Activity: 2688

Merit: 2470

$120000 in 2024 Confirmed

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 07:41:59 AM

Quote from: 600watt on January 23, 2021, 06:29:03 AM

Quote from: luke997 on January 23, 2021, 05:58:24 AM

Comparing Bitcoin to the internet is deeply flawed.

honest question: why is this deeply flawed? please elaborate.

Internet started as an idea, which later was implemented as ARPANET (which most people nowadays have never heard of).
The idea lives, but it is a collection of myriad of technologies, networks, protocols, cryptography, devices etc..
It's not one thing, it's all of it.
Greatness of the internet is that everyone can use it and benefit from it, but it's not an asset you can buy.

Bitcoin is code and data, which uses cryptography and was intended as a trustless digital currency to allow direct transactions, however it is more store of value since, and more so as its value rises.
Greatness of the Bitcoin is the concept, the idea, and that doesn't need BTC to live, same like internet doesn't need ARPANET.

There's a lot of more accurate analogies (key word is analogy), for example, what Ford T is to the idea of vehicle, Bitcoin is to the idea of currency.

For now, lot of people believe it is safest and most rewarding asset you can own today - me included, otherwise I wouldn't be BTC hodler.
All I was saying was, no one can predict next 10y. I doubt Satoshi 13y ago ever thought what it may become and be used for.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 6252. (Read 26709657 times)