Something will happen for sure this november, whether that move is up or down, is not clear at all.
death cross is down thanks, i was unclear about what direction that might indicate
Topic: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - page 953. (Read 1811714 times)
thanks, i was unclear about what direction that might indicate
Something will happen for sure this november, whether that move is up or down, is not clear at all.
death cross is down thanks, i was unclear about what direction that might indicate
c'mon baby, back down to 10.80...
Something will happen for sure this november, whether that move is up or down, is not clear at all.
death cross is down 
Something will happen for sure this november, whether that move is up or down, is not clear at all.
As a miner i am glad still above 10.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
i guess miners make for poor speculators then, i see that as a good sign
It's hard to forget that every coin at some point belongs to a miner, I'm disappointed in you.
when miners sell thinking " muahahah FREE MONEY ... minus electric bill i made profit
", I lolI think miners are more pragmatic and logical then speculators. I say this through reading many many mining threads that a lot of miners do not see the huge value with btc in current bitcoin economy. We suck usd out non stop and never bring it back. This is prob due to us seeing it as a speculative business that requires roi, fixed costs, hardware assets, etc... People who buy btc to hopefully sell for more later are just looking for the bigger fool. Sounds harsh but it is basically true. We have a plan if btc fails by selling assets and know we wont lose everything. speculators in btc, not necessarily traders, those true believers may very well ride it down to pennies on the dollar. Or it could goto the moon. Miners want a fair return on investment and do not shoot for the moon. We are more reasonable and calculated based on possible outcomes.
So saying we are poor speculators is untrue. The amount of money i put in and my return is probably greater then yours. The turtle, boring turtle, can win the race over the rabid speculative rabbit.
:-)
what is the "current bitcoin economy"
did you factor in the 60 bitcoin i send as payment to my dad?
how about the 1 bitcoin i traded for 1 gram of weed?
how could you know, these trades never and will probably never hit the exchange, a lot of my trades didn't even hit the blockchain (Casascius coins to buy into friendly poker games).
I think everyone is totally underestimating the economy, because its not very big, and its spared thin through out the globe. So from any small shop's perceptive, bitcoin economy is very small, but small things add up quick ...
Small? It is tiny when one gambling site can make up a significant portion of transactions per day. Another good chunk of those transactions are pools, miners, and exchanges. What is left really? About 10k other transactions which still are mostly nothing much to get excited about. Lets be generous and say another 5k of transactions off the blockchain. So after all this time we are still at the point of 15k transactions per day yet somehow btc is worth 11ish each? Insanity. 5 is still too high. 10 million plus btc mined times 11 usd and we see 15k of transactions?
In my opinion 3000 transaction per day of quality examples of bitcoins use take place. 3 measily thousand.
And by quality i mean no silk road, no gambling, no pools, miners, exchanges, shuffling btc around to diff wallets, mixing stolen btc, testing/experimenting, speculation etc... by quality i mean selling legal goods, pay for hire, etc...
So yea... i do not see a huge value and others do too. So far the growth of transactions has been in areas that are disappointing to say the least.
But hey.... As long as i can make a buck i am cool with it.
3000 transactions minus all the stuff you listed? I think that's being very, very generous. To be honest, I'd be surprised to learn it's more than 1000.
Why do you exclude real world goods and services that provide real value, like SR-txs, gambling, exchanging BTC for other currencies and even speculation and mining adds value to the system (liquidity for the markets and security for the network), not to speak of the others, that you nonchalantly excluded from your count. They are real txs because people care and derive value from them, so the do "count" and justify the price to some extent.
What makes up the current price is mainly speculation based on assumptions of future value. To give an example that hinges on the fact that I compare apples with pears: Most stocks are valued 5-20 times their yearly ROI by means of market capitalization (stock prize*all stocks in circulation). With companies like facebook that are overhyped its even 50-100 times that.
In case of bitcoin's value it would be something like 24 times the 5M BTC that are exchanged on a daily bases, which equals its market cap (11.XX USD*10.4M BTC) of 120M USD.
Someone who feels up to the challenge may correct this feeble calculation (probably chuck some more factors in, like coin velocity and amount of lost coins,..)
Are you overlooking the value of having inaccessible money? Having secure funds locked away safely is a pretty good value in and of itself. So in calculating how much BTC is worth, perhaps you have to add in how much you would need to pay to otherwise put some money/gold/etc... somewhere that was impossible for the government/army/dictator/bankrobbers to get to.
That's a pretty valuable service in an of itself.
That's a pretty valuable service in an of itself.
so let me get this right...
you think we need to have 10million BTC transacted every single day in the economy to support 10$?
As a miner i am glad still above 10.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
i guess miners make for poor speculators then, i see that as a good sign
It's hard to forget that every coin at some point belongs to a miner, I'm disappointed in you.
when miners sell thinking " muahahah FREE MONEY ... minus electric bill i made profit
", I lolI think miners are more pragmatic and logical then speculators. I say this through reading many many mining threads that a lot of miners do not see the huge value with btc in current bitcoin economy. We suck usd out non stop and never bring it back. This is prob due to us seeing it as a speculative business that requires roi, fixed costs, hardware assets, etc... People who buy btc to hopefully sell for more later are just looking for the bigger fool. Sounds harsh but it is basically true. We have a plan if btc fails by selling assets and know we wont lose everything. speculators in btc, not necessarily traders, those true believers may very well ride it down to pennies on the dollar. Or it could goto the moon. Miners want a fair return on investment and do not shoot for the moon. We are more reasonable and calculated based on possible outcomes.
So saying we are poor speculators is untrue. The amount of money i put in and my return is probably greater then yours. The turtle, boring turtle, can win the race over the rabid speculative rabbit.
:-)
what is the "current bitcoin economy"
did you factor in the 60 bitcoin i send as payment to my dad?
how about the 1 bitcoin i traded for 1 gram of weed?
how could you know, these trades never and will probably never hit the exchange, a lot of my trades didn't even hit the blockchain (Casascius coins to buy into friendly poker games).
I think everyone is totally underestimating the economy, because its not very big, and its spared thin through out the globe. So from any small shop's perceptive, bitcoin economy is very small, but small things add up quick ...
Small? It is tiny when one gambling site can make up a significant portion of transactions per day. Another good chunk of those transactions are pools, miners, and exchanges. What is left really? About 10k other transactions which still are mostly nothing much to get excited about. Lets be generous and say another 5k of transactions off the blockchain. So after all this time we are still at the point of 15k transactions per day yet somehow btc is worth 11ish each? Insanity. 5 is still too high. 10 million plus btc mined times 11 usd and we see 15k of transactions?
In my opinion 3000 transaction per day of quality examples of bitcoins use take place. 3 measily thousand.
And by quality i mean no silk road, no gambling, no pools, miners, exchanges, shuffling btc around to diff wallets, mixing stolen btc, testing/experimenting, speculation etc... by quality i mean selling legal goods, pay for hire, etc...
So yea... i do not see a huge value and others do too. So far the growth of transactions has been in areas that are disappointing to say the least.
But hey.... As long as i can make a buck i am cool with it.
If i had more time and were sufficiently awake i may be able to adequately surmise all of the fail in this sentence, but alas i am off to get drunk on a boat. For now i will say this. Who is the authority on what is legal? Why? What defines "quality" use? As long as you can make a buck? How does one condescend and condone in the same paragraph?
Edit: I would also add this http://blockchain.info/charts/miners-operating-profit-margin. $5 btc would = operating at a loss for miners, reducing the strength of the network. Look at both sides of the coin.
\...\
I would advise all my bullish friends to practice patience and caution, we are likely to be hovering at these price for a long time, do not jump the gun, we all need to work together to make The Squeeze work well.
You told a squeeze? Hmm .. The only true observation I made at the time of reading this forum - if all say "up, all the bulls, the squeeze, the moon, and so on" - then the only correct decision - to sell I would advise all my bullish friends to practice patience and caution, we are likely to be hovering at these price for a long time, do not jump the gun, we all need to work together to make The Squeeze work well.
As a miner i am glad still above 10.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
i guess miners make for poor speculators then, i see that as a good sign
It's hard to forget that every coin at some point belongs to a miner, I'm disappointed in you.
when miners sell thinking " muahahah FREE MONEY ... minus electric bill i made profit
", I lolI think miners are more pragmatic and logical then speculators. I say this through reading many many mining threads that a lot of miners do not see the huge value with btc in current bitcoin economy. We suck usd out non stop and never bring it back. This is prob due to us seeing it as a speculative business that requires roi, fixed costs, hardware assets, etc... People who buy btc to hopefully sell for more later are just looking for the bigger fool. Sounds harsh but it is basically true. We have a plan if btc fails by selling assets and know we wont lose everything. speculators in btc, not necessarily traders, those true believers may very well ride it down to pennies on the dollar. Or it could goto the moon. Miners want a fair return on investment and do not shoot for the moon. We are more reasonable and calculated based on possible outcomes.
So saying we are poor speculators is untrue. The amount of money i put in and my return is probably greater then yours. The turtle, boring turtle, can win the race over the rabid speculative rabbit.
:-)
what is the "current bitcoin economy"
did you factor in the 60 bitcoin i send as payment to my dad?
how about the 1 bitcoin i traded for 1 gram of weed?
how could you know, these trades never and will probably never hit the exchange, a lot of my trades didn't even hit the blockchain (Casascius coins to buy into friendly poker games).
I think everyone is totally underestimating the economy, because its not very big, and its spared thin through out the globe. So from any small shop's perceptive, bitcoin economy is very small, but small things add up quick ...
Small? It is tiny when one gambling site can make up a significant portion of transactions per day. Another good chunk of those transactions are pools, miners, and exchanges. What is left really? About 10k other transactions which still are mostly nothing much to get excited about. Lets be generous and say another 5k of transactions off the blockchain. So after all this time we are still at the point of 15k transactions per day yet somehow btc is worth 11ish each? Insanity. 5 is still too high. 10 million plus btc mined times 11 usd and we see 15k of transactions?
In my opinion 3000 transaction per day of quality examples of bitcoins use take place. 3 measily thousand.
And by quality i mean no silk road, no gambling, no pools, miners, exchanges, shuffling btc around to diff wallets, mixing stolen btc, testing/experimenting, speculation etc... by quality i mean selling legal goods, pay for hire, etc...
So yea... i do not see a huge value and others do too. So far the growth of transactions has been in areas that are disappointing to say the least.
But hey.... As long as i can make a buck i am cool with it.
3000 transactions minus all the stuff you listed? I think that's being very, very generous. To be honest, I'd be surprised to learn it's more than 1000.
by quality i mean selling legal goods, pay for hire, etc...
So yea... i do not see a huge value and others do too.
Would you say the same about gold?
Small? It is tiny when one gambling site can make up a significant portion of transactions per day. Another good chunk of those transactions are pools, miners, and exchanges. What is left really? About 10k other transactions which still are mostly nothing much to get excited about. Lets be generous and say another 5k of transactions off the blockchain. So after all this time we are still at the point of 15k transactions per day yet somehow btc is worth 11ish each? Insanity. 5 is still too high. 10 million plus btc mined times 11 usd and we see 15k of transactions?
In my opinion 3000 transaction per day of quality examples of bitcoins use take place. 3 measily thousand.
And by quality i mean no silk road, no gambling, no pools, miners, exchanges, shuffling btc around to diff wallets, mixing stolen btc, testing/experimenting, speculation etc... by quality i mean selling legal goods, pay for hire, etc...
So yea... i do not see a huge value and others do too. So far the growth of transactions has been in areas that are disappointing to say the least.
But hey.... As long as i can make a buck i am cool with it.
In my opinion 3000 transaction per day of quality examples of bitcoins use take place. 3 measily thousand.
And by quality i mean no silk road, no gambling, no pools, miners, exchanges, shuffling btc around to diff wallets, mixing stolen btc, testing/experimenting, speculation etc... by quality i mean selling legal goods, pay for hire, etc...
So yea... i do not see a huge value and others do too. So far the growth of transactions has been in areas that are disappointing to say the least.
But hey.... As long as i can make a buck i am cool with it.
About a month ago I got to pay someone in Japan with bitcoins. I never thought I would meet anybody else who would take bitcoins, but I did. That is why I feel the bitcoin project will succeed, and that its just going to take some time.
As a miner i am glad still above 10.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
i guess miners make for poor speculators then, i see that as a good sign
It's hard to forget that every coin at some point belongs to a miner, I'm disappointed in you.
when miners sell thinking " muahahah FREE MONEY ... minus electric bill i made profit
", I lolI think miners are more pragmatic and logical then speculators. I say this through reading many many mining threads that a lot of miners do not see the huge value with btc in current bitcoin economy. We suck usd out non stop and never bring it back. This is prob due to us seeing it as a speculative business that requires roi, fixed costs, hardware assets, etc... People who buy btc to hopefully sell for more later are just looking for the bigger fool. Sounds harsh but it is basically true. We have a plan if btc fails by selling assets and know we wont lose everything. speculators in btc, not necessarily traders, those true believers may very well ride it down to pennies on the dollar. Or it could goto the moon. Miners want a fair return on investment and do not shoot for the moon. We are more reasonable and calculated based on possible outcomes.
So saying we are poor speculators is untrue. The amount of money i put in and my return is probably greater then yours. The turtle, boring turtle, can win the race over the rabid speculative rabbit.
:-)
what is the "current bitcoin economy"
did you factor in the 60 bitcoin i send as payment to my dad?
how about the 1 bitcoin i traded for 1 gram of weed?
how could you know, these trades never and will probably never hit the exchange, a lot of my trades didn't even hit the blockchain (Casascius coins to buy into friendly poker games).
I think everyone is totally underestimating the economy, because its not very big, and its spared thin through out the globe. So from any small shop's perceptive, bitcoin economy is very small, but small things add up quick ...
Small? It is tiny when one gambling site can make up a significant portion of transactions per day. Another good chunk of those transactions are pools, miners, and exchanges. What is left really? About 10k other transactions which still are mostly nothing much to get excited about. Lets be generous and say another 5k of transactions off the blockchain. So after all this time we are still at the point of 15k transactions per day yet somehow btc is worth 11ish each? Insanity. 5 is still too high. 10 million plus btc mined times 11 usd and we see 15k of transactions?
In my opinion 3000 transaction per day of quality examples of bitcoins use take place. 3 measily thousand.
And by quality i mean no silk road, no gambling, no pools, miners, exchanges, shuffling btc around to diff wallets, mixing stolen btc, testing/experimenting, speculation etc... by quality i mean selling legal goods, pay for hire, etc...
So yea... i do not see a huge value and others do too. So far the growth of transactions has been in areas that are disappointing to say the least.
But hey.... As long as i can make a buck i am cool with it.
I'm pretty sure, a few big players have been selling their hoards looking to buy back cheaper.
ya GOOD LUCK!
I would advise all my bullish friends to practice patience and caution, we are likely to be hovering at these price for a long time, do not jump the gun, we all need to work together to make The Squeeze work well.
As a miner i am glad still above 10.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
i guess miners make for poor speculators then, i see that as a good sign
It's hard to forget that every coin at some point belongs to a miner, I'm disappointed in you.
when miners sell thinking " muahahah FREE MONEY ... minus electric bill i made profit
", I lolI think miners are more pragmatic and logical then speculators. I say this through reading many many mining threads that a lot of miners do not see the huge value with btc in current bitcoin economy. We suck usd out non stop and never bring it back. This is prob due to us seeing it as a speculative business that requires roi, fixed costs, hardware assets, etc... People who buy btc to hopefully sell for more later are just looking for the bigger fool. Sounds harsh but it is basically true. We have a plan if btc fails by selling assets and know we wont lose everything. speculators in btc, not necessarily traders, those true believers may very well ride it down to pennies on the dollar. Or it could goto the moon. Miners want a fair return on investment and do not shoot for the moon. We are more reasonable and calculated based on possible outcomes.
So saying we are poor speculators is untrue. The amount of money i put in and my return is probably greater then yours. The turtle, boring turtle, can win the race over the rabid speculative rabbit.
:-)
what is the "current bitcoin economy"
did you factor in the 60 bitcoin i send as payment to my dad?
how about the 1 bitcoin i traded for 1 gram of weed?
how could you know, these trades never and will probably never hit the exchange, a lot of my trades didn't even hit the blockchain (Casascius coins to buy into friendly poker games).
I think everyone is totally underestimating the economy, because its not very big, and its spared thin through out the globe. So from any small shop's perceptive, bitcoin economy is very small, but small things add up quick ...
As a miner i am glad still above 10.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
i guess miners make for poor speculators then, i see that as a good sign
It's hard to forget that every coin at some point belongs to a miner, I'm disappointed in you.
when miners sell thinking " muahahah FREE MONEY ... minus electric bill i made profit
", I lolI think miners are more pragmatic and logical then speculators. I say this through reading many many mining threads that a lot of miners do not see the huge value with btc in current bitcoin economy. We suck usd out non stop and never bring it back. This is prob due to us seeing it as a speculative business that requires roi, fixed costs, hardware assets, etc... People who buy btc to hopefully sell for more later are just looking for the bigger fool. Sounds harsh but it is basically true. We have a plan if btc fails by selling assets and know we wont lose everything. speculators in btc, not necessarily traders, those true believers may very well ride it down to pennies on the dollar. Or it could goto the moon. Miners want a fair return on investment and do not shoot for the moon. We are more reasonable and calculated based on possible outcomes.
So saying we are poor speculators is untrue. The amount of money i put in and my return is probably greater then yours. The turtle, boring turtle, can win the race over the rabid speculative rabbit.
:-)
As a miner i am glad still above 10.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
If i was a speculator i would be shocked if still above 10 by christmas.
i guess miners make for poor speculators then, i see that as a good sign
It's hard to forget that every coin at some point belongs to a miner, I'm disappointed in you.
when miners sell thinking " muahahah FREE MONEY ... minus electric bill i made profit
", I lolI passed my road test today, so happy
Going to buy my first car this weekend!
and the best part, i don't need to cash in any bitcoin
Implying that you are buying it with Bitcoin? Going to buy my first car this weekend!
and the best part, i don't need to cash in any bitcoin
no, cash in full (used car)
once its all paid for, my fiat savings will be minimal... but that's a good thing
ok I went for the test drive
had an inspection done on the car. And its good! might be good to get an aliment done in the near future, no biggy.
So then it went back to the dealer to pay, banks are closed by this time,But no problem i have a debit card
Swipe the card... REFUSED! huh what why? daily limits........
ok Put it on my VISA card then!
Swipe the card... REFUSED! huh what why? daily limits........
bitcoin needs to happen!
oh and the sales rep was telling me he was building himself a computer, so i asked him what kind of video card hes putting in it... he says "THE BEST!" i say "you know about bitcoin?" he says no, I tell him about bitcoin, he loves the idea so far and tells me he will for sure look into it.
I give him a blank (no value) Casascius 1BTC coin
everyone should get some blank "roll your own" coins for times like this
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